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Hrdayananda Goswami aka Howard Resnick aka Acaryadeva aka Acaryapada aka Gurudeva
Srila Prabhupada never gave any concession for homosexuality. Therefore Hrdayananda Goswami is bogus. (Caitanya dasa)
Srila Prabhupada on homosexuality
Letter to: Lalitananda
--
Hawaii
26 May, 1975
75-05-26
My Dear Lalitananda dasa,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated May 13rd,
1975 and have noted the contents. I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex.
It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact,
it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why
you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway,
try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in
a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude,
can pick you up from your fallen state. You should
stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your
chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil. Show Krishna you are serious,
if you are.
I hope this meets you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
NOTE: Lalitananda dasa died of AIDS
September 1989 in Berkley after his homosexual partner contracted HIV.
The homosexual appetite of a man for another
man is demoniac
"Lord Brahma, approaching the Lord, addressed
Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created
by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have
come to attack me."
PURPORT: It appears here that the homosexual appetite
of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation
of the demons by Brahma. In other words, the homosexual
appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane
male in the ordinary course of life. (Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
Srimad Bhagavatam 3:20:26 text and purport.)
The homosexuality of priests
Prabhuapada: Priests should be ideal character and they are advocating homosex? Now where is the ideal character man? If the priestly class are going to hospital for drinking habit and they are allowing man to man marriage and homosex then where is ideal character?
Social Worker: But homosexuality is a sickness, it is an illness. Just like a person cannot see would you punish him for not seeing? You can’t punish a person for being homosexual. That’s what our society says.
Prabhupada: Now, anyway, the priestly class is sanctioning homosex. Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex.
Social Worker: Yes, well we say…
Prabhupada: …and there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, “Watchtower,” - that is a Christian paper, I have seen in that paper - they are condemning it - that priest is allowing man to man marriage. And they are passing a resolution - homosex is passed, all right. And in Perth [Australia] you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something, tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Krishna consciousness movement.
Social Worker: But people say what is ideal to you is not ideal
to them.
Prabhupada: I am giving the example - ideal character.
Social Worker: Yes, but it is one opinion.
Prabhupada: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion, what is the value
of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take
as it is enjoined in the sastras. No opinion…Now suppose if we instruct
a man, “Do not have illicit sex.” Have you got any objection?
Social Worker: Yes. I have.
Prabhupada: You have? Illicit? If I say…
Social Worker: Yes. I like sex, and my wife likes sex. We just enjoy it; we couldn’t live without it. Our marriage is happier because we have sex.
Prabhupada: Just see, this is the condition.
Social Worker: Well, it’s our life, and our marriage is happier with
sex.
Prabhupada: No, we don’t prohibit sex, but we prohibit illicit sex.
Social Worker: Well, we use the pill; we use contraceptives; we use all kinds of things because it makes our life…
Prabhupada: Why do you use contraceptives?
Social Worker: Because we don’t want any more children.
Prabhupada: Then why don’t you stop sex?
Social Worker: Because we like sex. We enjoy it.
Prabhupada: That means go to physician, I want to do everything I like, still I want treatment. This is the position. You want…
Social Worker: I didn’t come for treatment.
Prabhupada: No, no, you have come for treatment here. Because you are paid to control the society, your activities, therefore you have come here for treatment. But when I prescribe medicine you don’t accept it.
Homosex sanctioned by priests
Prabhupada: That they are doing. Still they
are doing. Just like you said, some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy
and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. Now you say that
“Thou shall not kill;” they say, “Thou shall not murder.”
They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage.
They are sanctioning abortion.
Acyutananda: Yes. Two homosexuals were married by a priest.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Now they have a church where the priests are homosexuals and
the attending people are homosexual.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Now they have churches for homosex. That means the priest is
a homosexual, and the persons who come are homosexuals. A special church for
homosexuals.
Prabhupada: Just see. Is that religion?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 8th January 1976. Room Conversation,
Nellore, India)
Prabhupada:The Western civilization is like that. Now you have to make a thorough
change. The persons from the ecclesiastical order, they are also so polluted,
they are sanctioning homosex, abortion. What can be done for the common man?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 8th April 1976. Morning Walk,
Mayapura, India)
Prabhupada: Just see. Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they’re
supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful,
how the church will go on? Churches, they are expecting church must support
abortion and child killing.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes, it is progressive. They feel that is the progressive
way to think.
Ramesvara: And the church should not interfere with their.... That is their
decision.
Tamala Krsna: It is personal life.
Prabhupada: This is the rascal.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 6th June 1976. Morning Walk, Los
Angeles.)
Tamala Krsna: The priests are doing all rascal
nonsense. Homosex.
Prabhupada: They announced that...(?) There is a hospital for drunkard priest.
Tamala Krsna: Alcoholic priests.
Prabhupada: And they have introduced gambling.
Tamala Krsna: And homosex.
Prabhupada: Homosex, what is that religion? And they’re passing to homosex,
religion. They’re getting married man to man. Most degraded.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 16th February 1977. Morning Room
Conversation, Mayapura.)
Prabhupada: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging
homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing
everything nonsense.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 28th April 1977. Conversation:
Vairaghya, Salaries, Political Etiquette. Bombay.)
Prabhupada: That they are doing. Still they
are doing. Just like you said, some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy
and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. Now you say that
“Thou shall not kill;” they say, “Thou shall not murder.”
They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage.
They are sanctioning abortion.
Acyutananda: Yes. Two homosexuals were married by a priest.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Now they have a church where the priests are homosexuals and
the attending people are homosexual.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Now they have churches for homosex. That means the priest is
a homosexual, and the persons who come are homosexuals. A special church for
homosexuals.
Prabhupada: Just see. Is that religion?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 8th January 1976, Room Conversation.
Nellore, India.)
Prabhupada: That is not enjoyment. Just like
sex indulgence. If you indulge in more than necessary, then you will be impotent.
Nature will stop. You know impotency? That will be there. Impotency. This
homosex is also another sign of impotency. They do not feel sex impulse
to woman. They feel sex impulse in man. That means he is impotent. It is impotency.
So things are coming so rubbish now. This is the time for preaching our program,
standard. Then?
Nitai: “For example, marriage, or the combination of a man with a woman,
is necessary for progeny, but it is not meant for sense enjoyment.”
Prabhupada: Now this progeny is bother. It is sense enjoyment, homosex. Progeny,
they don’t want. They’re not interested. Only sense gratification.
This is another sign of impotency. When after enjoying so many women, they
become impotent, then they artificially create another sex impulse in homosex.
This is the psychology. So people are degraded so much. Especially in the...
Everywhere, not specially this or that. Everywhere. This is Kali-yuga. But
thoughtful leaders, they are thinking, “What to do?” That’s
very good sign. And take advantage and give them program exactly to the direction
of Bhagavad-gita. Then the world will be saved. Otherwise it is doomed. It
is a fact. This is the opportunity for preaching. You can take that paper
and heading. There are so many headings. Each heading reply. We are the only
persons who can give solution. There is no other group or any man in the world.
We are only. So let them take advantage of our knowledge and apply in the
society to the ben... That’s all right. Now all the sannyasis have got
the good opportunity to preach. So where is the key? Keep it. (end)
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Arrival address. 3rd July 1975,
Chicago, IL.)
So formerly, the king was controlled by saintly persons, by priestly order.
They would give the king advice. The Vedic society is divided into four classes
of men. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah
[Bg. 4.13]. According to quality and work, there are four divisions of men:
The brahmana, the intelligent class of men; the ksatriyas, the administrative
class of men, the martial class of men; and the vaisyas, the productive class
of men; and the sudras, the worker class of men. That is still existing in
a different name, but the difficulty is, the classification is not made according
to quality and work. That was the actual position of classification. Nowadays,
a sudra is on the government. A person who is a nonsense number one, he has
no knowledge, he is on the head of the government. The things have been topsy-turvied.
A person on religious category, he’s advocating something, oh, it is
not to be uttered. Homosex. You see? He’s advocating homosex.
Just see. These has been topsy-turvied. The four classes of men are there,
still. But the third-class, fourth-class man is taking the place of first
class. And the first-class man is kicked out, “Go out. Don’t talk
of God.”
This is the position at the present moment.
The classes are there. That is natural. There must be some first-class men,
there must be some second-class men, there must be some third-class men, there
must be some fourth-class men. But the difficulty is that the fourth-class
man is taking the position of first-class man, and the first-class man is
being kicked out. Therefore there are so many problems in the society. Guna-karma-vibhagasah.
First-class man must be acting first class. But he’s acting as last
class, but he is posed in first class. Things have been topsy-turvied. So
it is the duty of the government to find out the first-class man and employ
him for first-class business, first-class activities. And what is that first-class
activity? The first-class activity is athato brahma jijnasa. That is first-class
activity. Otherwise, it is fourth-class activity. If the human society is
not divided into right order, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah
[Bg. 4.13]. And it is the duty of the government to see that the first-class
man is employed in first-class activities, the second-class man is engaged
in second-class activities. Then the government will be nice. Now here, the
Vena Maharaja, he’s on the head of the administration, royal king. Now
he is advising, “Reject religion. No more charity, no more sacrifice,
no more worship. Stop all this nonsense.” Then what is the condition
of the society? So that is being done.
So it will take some time to explain about these activities of first-class,
second-class, third-class men. It is a great science. So we shall try to explain,
one after another. You please come on Sunday. I shall hold this class. For
the time being, excuse me.
Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 21st May 1972. Sunday Feast talk.
Los Angeles, CA.)
Prabhupada: Then he has to define what is morality.
Syamasundara: Yes.
Prabhupada: Everyone says, “It is my morality.” Everyone can manufacture
(indistinct). Just like, for example in India if somebody talks of homosex
(indistinct) immoral, and here it is going on. (indistinct). So what is morality?
(indistinct).
Syamasundara: He uses the categorical imperative that Kant set up, the different
categories of goodness and badness.
Prabhupada: That means if you are in the modes of goodness, your morality
is different from the morality of the man who is in the modes of ignorance.
Syamasundara: But he says that everything should be understood in terms of
what it ought to be, that there is an absolute good.
Prabhupada: Yes.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Discussions with Syamasundara
dasa.)
If actually there was religion in the human society, why there are so many
problems? There should not have been so many problems. The problems are in
the animal society. Why there should be problem in human society? Because
they have given up the real principles. They are simply animals. Therefore
there are so many problems. Actually there is no problem. Even they are not
animal. Less than animal. In animal society there is no problem. There is
problem, but not so acute. They are free. Just like the ducks, the pigeons,
they fly from one country to another. They have no problem of immigration
department, passport, or visa. They have no problem. These rascals should
understand that they have created problem on account of their animalistic,
less than animalistic civilization. There is no limit of sense gratification.
The sense gratification, homosex, they are supporting. Just see. Just see.
At least, in animal society there is no homosex. They have created homosex,
and that is being passed by the priest, the religious heads. You know
that?
Prabhupada: Just see. If you say that they
are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than
animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly.
Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. [break] Dharmena
hinah pasubhih samanah. That is the special distinction, that their life,
human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. That
is another type of frustration because the so-called leaders of religion,
they could not give anything. They also exploited people under religious sentiment.
Actually they could not make people religious. They did not know what is religion.
And therefore people become, revolted: “What is this nonsense? They
are living at our expenditure.” We are real religious people. We are
enlightening people about religion, life, about God. And these people they
simply take money and live peacefully. And drink also. Here they drink wine.
In India they drink ganja. You have been Radha-Damodara temple? You have seen
that Gosai?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 25th August 1971. Room Conversation,
London.)
Prabhupada: Yes, he has this book department. Book department and… They
may move according to convenience, Bali-mardana and Karandhara. He has got
also very responsibility, with this department, that department. He has to
purchase small houses. So big brain (indistinct). So similarly, you also think
on the books. Everyone take big responsibility. Then we have to serve this
mission. The people are foolish, they have forgotten God. We are delivering
them. Best service. And without God, it is all useless, zero, all this civilization.
Zero. Whatever they are making advancement, it is all zero. And nonsense.
But actually it is. Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised.
They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man.
The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing.
When I heard from Kirtanananda Maharaja there is a big conference for passing
this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes
sound of breathing out).
Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are
going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject
matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week.
Just imagine. Phalena pariciyate, one has to study by the result. Not that
superficially you show that “We are very much advanced.” Phalena,
what is the result? Phalena pariciyate, your, that is in English word also,
end justifies the means. The end is this (indistinct) “We are going
to support homosex.” Getting married. There are many cases the priestly
order has actually got married. I read it in that paper, Watch, what is called?
Devotees: Watchtower.
Prabhupada: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct)
them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal.
The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male
to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal.
This is all due to godlessness. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12],
godless civilization cannot have any good qualities. Harav abhaktasya kuto
mahad-guna mano rathena asato dhavato… They simply go to the untruth
by mental speculation. (end)
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 25th May 1972. Conversation with
GBC. Los Angeles, CA)
Jayatirtha: In the last six years in the Catholic church, 25,000 priests have
left and taken up…
Prabhupada: 25,000?
Jayatirtha: 25,000 in six years.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Jayatirtha: Have left the Catholic church, priests.
Prabhupada: Left.
Jayatirtha: Ordained priests, they have left and gone off to marry or whatever.
Especially they are concerned that they can’t marry. Catholic priests
are not allowed to marry.
Prabhupada: Marrying? They are marrying man to man ,what to speak of marrying.
Sodomy.
Jayatirtha: So that’s the alternative. Either they’re leaving
or they’re marrying man to man.
Prabhupada: Homosex. They are supporting homosex. So degraded, and still they
say, “What we have done?” They do not know what is degradation,
and they are priest. They are teaching others. They do not know what is the
meaning of degradation.
Svarupa Damodara: So if the leader is degraded, how can the followers…
Prabhupada: Similarly, scientists, they do not know what is imperfection,
and they are scientists.
Devotee (2): The thing about the blind leading the blind.
Prabhupada: This is going on.
Jayatirtha: Also, they aren’t able to attract any new priests. In their
seminaries, the enrollment has gone down to ten to fifteen percent of what
it was previously.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jayatirtha: The enrollment has gone down to ten to fifteen percent of what
it was previously.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jayatirtha: They can’t get anyone to come and join their seminaries
because they aren’t teaching anything, just (indistinct).
Prabhupada: What they will teach, what do they know? First of all you must
know, then you will teach. You are rascal, what you will teach? That is another
cheating. He does not know anything, he is a teacher. People want it. Just
like these rascals are advertising, these gurus, they say “You haven’t
got to chant. You simply come to Guru Maharaja.” That means these people,
because we have got so many restrictions, he has to chant, he has to follow,
they think it is botheration. So that means immediately they want to be cheated.
Therefore, another cheater is welcomed. They want to be cheated, so when a
cheater comes, he is welcomed, “Oh, you are very nice. You are so simple,
and this Swamiji is so strict.” So they want to be cheated. Therefore
God sends a cheater: “Go and cheat them.”
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 28th Septmeber 1972. Morning Walk
conversation. Los Angeles.)
Yasomatinandana: It’s better sometimes to approach a person with no
religion, Prabhupada, than to approach a Christian.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasomatinandana: These Christians are very blasphemous.
Prajapati: Very blasphemous.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: Party spirit.
Prabhupada: No no, what is their value? When they are sanctioning abortion,
homosex, now they are finished. They have no value.
Karandhara: Well, most or a greater proportion of the traditional Christians
condemn homosex and abortion. A good quantity of the traditional Christians,
they condemn abortion and homosex.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are good, but mostly, as you were telling me that, that
Pope is disgusted... Yes. Nobody cares for the Bible or the Pope. That is
everywhere, not only Christian. Actually there is no religion at the present
moment. All animals. We don’t blame only the Christians. The Hindus,
Muslim, everyone. They have lost all religion.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 8th December 1973. Morning Walk,
Los Angeles.)
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament,
similarly, these churches approve: “Yes, homosex is all right.”
Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system
is the Hindus also. You’ll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many
butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kali that “We are eating
Mother Kali’s prasada.” That’s it. This is going on.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 2nd April 1975. Morning Walk,
Mayapura.)
Prabhupada: Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And
the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina
is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.
Amogha: They all seem to think that spiritual life is something to think about,
something...
Prabhupada: Not very important.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 9th May 1975. Morning Walk. Perth,
Australia.)
According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes
of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The
same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result
of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the
sattva-guna. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guna and reach the
spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do
not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in
tamo-guna, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guna to rajo-guna, rajo-guna to sattva-guna,
and then sattva-guna to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally,
people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guna and rajo-guna,
whole material world, mostly tamo-guna and few of them in rajo-guna. The symptoms
of rajo-guna and tamo-guna are lust and greediness.
Just like yesterday you told me the students
are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guna, that the education—students,
they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guna, lusty desires, very
prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their
subject matter, kama. So everyone in this material world infected with this
tamo-guna, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them
in rajo-guna—politics and improvement of material condition. So we have
to cut down this tamo-guna and rajo-guna, come to the sattva-guna. Then he’ll
not be disturbed by these lusty desires and greediness. Then he’ll be
happy. Sthita-sattve prasidati. When he comes to the sattva-guna, now he has
to make further progress, sattva-guna. And the progress means, being situated
in sattva-guna if he advances in devotional service, Krsna consciousness,
then he surpasses all the material qualities. That is perfection of life.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 11th May 1975. Morning Walk, Perth
Australia.)
Why you should interpret upon Krsna’s word? If you have got your own
philosophy, you write another book. Why do you touch Bhagavad-gita? This is
their cheating. Bhagavad-gita is a popular book. Gandhi also took Bhagavad-gita
for his political diplomacy. This is going on. And they’ll never agree
to accept Bhagavad-gita as it is. They’ll never agree. The other day
I was there in Kuruksetra. They have got their own plan—manava-dharma,
this dharma, that dharma. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya: [Bg. 18.66]
“You give up all these. Kick out all this so-called rascaldom. You just
surrender unto Me.” That they will not do. Except this, everything which
is going on in the name of religion, that is cheating. Everyone is misinterpret...
Just like Christians, they have misinterpreted: “Kill means murder.
It is meant for man.” That means they are making their own lusty desires
fulfilled in the name of Bible, that’s all. Everyone is doing like that.
They are changing. Mass opinion is now homosex. They are passing abortion.
They are passing... What is this? This is their business. For fulfillment
of their lusty desires and greediness, they are bringing the authority of
Bible, Bhagavad-gita. This is going on in the name of religion.
Devotee (1): They swear on the Bible in the court. And I was reading in the
paper the other day that now in England they have passed a law whereby a man
cannot be convicted of rape if he honestly believes that the woman consented
to be raped.
Prabhupada: Eh? What is that? Woman?
Devotee (1): They said that the man cannot be convicted of rape if he honestly
believes that the woman consented to his raping her.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise
there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very
intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, “Yes, I felt
happiness.” So he was released. “Here is consent.” And that’s
a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure.
So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, “Yes, I felt some
pleasure.” “Now, there is consent.” So he was released.
After all, it is an itching sensation. So either by force or by willingly,
if there is itching, everyone feels relieved itching it. That’s a psychology.
It is not that the woman do not like rape. They like sometimes. They willingly.
That is the psychology. Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly
they do not. This is the psychology.
Devotee (1): So what this law means is that anybody can rape anybody.
Prabhupada: There is no law; it is all lusty desire. All law or no law, these
are all nonsense. The sastra has... It is lusty desire, that’s all.
Everyone wants to fulfill a lusty desires. So unless one is not in the modes
of goodness or transcendental, everyone will like. That is the material world,
rajas-tamah. Rajas-tamo-bhavah kama-lobhadayas ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. It is all
discussed in the sastra. Just like I am hungry man. There is foodstuff. I
want to eat it. So if I take by force, that is illegal, and if I pay for it,
then it is legal. But I am the hungry man, I want it. This is going on. Everyone
is lusty. Therefore they say “legalized prostitution.” They want
it. So marriage is something legalized, that’s all.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 11th May 1975. Morning Walk,
Perth Australia.)
Prabhupada: Oh, seagull. They are doing the same business, and after his much
advancement of civilization, he is doing the same business. The tiger is also
eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse.
The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the
throat quickly. This is the advance, advancement of civilization. The dog
and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of
homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They
do not know even what is the standard of human civilization. If you are doing
the same business like ordinary animals, then where is the advancement of
civilization?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 11th May 1975. Morning Walk,
Perth Australia.)
Prabhupada: Nescience, yes. That is pravrtti and nivrtti. Pravrtti means sense
enjoyment. And nivrtti means self-negation. So when we say that “You
shall not have illicit sex,” and their inclination is illicit sex, so
therefore it is revolutionary. They are materialistic persons. They want sex
enjoyment to the best capacity—homosex, this sex, that sex, naked dance,
all sexually inclined, pravrtti. And we say, “Stop this,” nivrtti.
They do not like it because asura. Pravrtti jagat. They do not know this is
essential. They do not know it. This is essential. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB
6.1.13]. Tapasya means brahmacarya. The so-called swamis, they are coming
for this so-called yoga practice and..., but they are themself victim of sex.
This is going on. Actually, it is a bluff—they have become swami and
teaching some yoga system—because they do not know that one has to stop
this first of all. Brahmacaryena. So this bluffing is going on all over the
world, and we are speaking just against them. Murkhayopadeso hi prakopaya
na santaye. If you give instruction to the rascals, he will simply be angry.
He will not take advantage of it. This is our position. All the so-called
professors, philosophers, they are all in the pravrtti-marga. Therefore they
are bringing somebody, “Our interpretation is like this.” Pravrtti-marga.
Because if they can find out some support from the sastra, then they think,
“We are secure.” This is going on. Pravrttim ca nivrttim jana
na vidur asurah.
The whole world is full of asuras, descendant
of Hiranyakasipu, and it is very difficult. But if we give them chance to
chant Hare Krsna mantra, gradually they will understand. (pause) Our difficulty:
the so-called swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravrtti-marga.
All these, priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravrtti-marga. So they are
passing, “Yes, you can have homosex with man.” They are getting
man-to-man marriage. You know? They are performing the marriage ceremony between
man to man in the open church. What class of men they are? And they are priest.
Just see. Such degraded persons, drinking... They have got hospital for curing
their drinking disease. Five thousand patients in a hospital in America, all
drunkards, and they are priest. Just see. Simply by dressing long, what is
called, overcoat?
Srutakirti: Cloak.
Amogha: Habit?
Prabhupada: Cloak and cross, they have become. In India also, simply having
a thread, a brahmana. Two-paisa thread. That’s all.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 13th May 1975. Morning Walk,
Perth Australia.)
Paramahamsa: They also have that “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
Prabhupada: Yes. And they are very expert in doing that. That is advanced
civilization. Now they are marrying man to man and accepting homosex, so what
is the value now of this priestly class?
Paramahamsa: They have another thing now where they, a man goes to the doctor
and has an operation to change his sex from man to woman.
Prabhupada: Sex. Yes.
Paramahamsa: Or from woman to man. That’s called transvestites.
Prabhupada: That is going on?
Paramahamsa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Successful?
Paramahamsa: Yes, sometimes. Sometimes they have some difficulties, but they
have had many successful operations. [break] She can’t have... It can’t
have a baby. (laughs)
Prabhupada: They are doing?
Paramahamsa: Well, they’re changing, but they can’t become pregnant.
That’s the only thing. They take these special hormones, and then they
can grow breasts and everything just like a woman. But they can’t become
pregnant.
Amogha: In the newspaper there was an article about two weeks ago about a
Christian church in America where they have a naked dancer come.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 13th May 1975. Morning Walk,
Perth Australia.)
Amogha: With all the universities and high-class schools they’re simply
producing...
Prabhupada: Fourth-class men.
Amogha: Yeah.
Prabhupada: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced.
Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they
are animals, producing so many animals, that’s all, dogs and hogs. [break]
...in the beginning samah. Samah, damah—first two business. Control
the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are
so much sexually disturbed, they’re discussing about the profit of homosex.
Where is first-class men?
Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...
Prabhupada: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are
not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man’s philosophy, we will have
to waste our time to hear them—that’s not good. They are not even
fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but
they are naradhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy,
and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy? [break]
Paramahamsa: In that verse it says, jnanam vijnanam astikyam. What is the
difference between jnanam and vijnanam?
Prabhupada: Jnanam means theoretical, vijnanam means practical.
Devotee (1): Sankirtana movement is vijnanam.
Prabhupada: Yes. (pause) [break] He is in goodness but sometimes he is attacked
by the other two base qualities, passion and ignorance. Then he falls down.
Where there is chance of being contaminated, that is not pure goodness. Pure
goodness is never contaminated. That is (unclear).
Amogha: So pure goodness actually means those eight qualities mentioned in
the Gita but without any contamination of the lower qualities.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 14th May 1975. Morning Walk,
Perth Australia.)
Prabhupada: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced.
Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they
are animals, producing so many animals, that’s all, dogs and hogs. [break]
...in the beginning samah. Samah, damah—first two business. Control
the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are
so much sexually disturbed, they’re discussing about the profit of homosex.
Where is first-class men?
Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...
Prabhupada: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are
not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man’s philosophy, we will have
to waste our time to hear them—that’s not good. They are not even
fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but
they are naradhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy,
and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy? [break]
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 14th May 1975. Morning Walk,
Perth Australia.)
Prabhupada: Hm. The world is full of rascals and fourth-class men. That is
our verdict, Krsna’s verdict. A human being does not know God, he’s
no better than dog. He is dog. Who knows God? There are so many scientists,
philosophers, now everywhere. And they are discussing on sex philosophy, homosex
philosophy, Darwin’s theory. All third class, fourth class, they are
controlling. Now they are gradually coming to chaotic condition, and their
problems, engage so many big, big officials how to solve. Oh, why you created
problem, first of all? You third-class, fourth-class men, you have created
problem, and now we are trying to make solution—another problem. And
because you are the same fourth-class men, how you can make a solution? You
have created the problems. The man who creates problems, can he make solution?
So you are the same fourth-class man, how you can make a solution? Bring first-class
man. But there are no first-class men. All rogues and rascals. Things are
becoming bad to worse, and still they’ll claim, “We are first
class.”
Amogha: They are all rascals, so the best rascal they say he is first-class.
First-class rascal.
Prabhupada: That I was explaining, big animal and small animal. Cats and dogs
praising one lion.
Amogha: Hm.
Prabhupada: A lion is also an animal. But they are thinking, “Oh, one
lion.” But we are thinking that it is also animal. The cats and dogs,
they are thinking, “Oh, lion is so big, so powerful.” But human
being is thinking this is also an animal, big animal. Is it not? (laughs)
Tell them. Cats and dogs may praise some another animal, tiger and... But
are the tigers other than animal? He is also animal.
Devotee: Hare Krsna. [break]
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 18th May 1975. Morning Walk,
Perth Australia.)
Prabhupada: That means they are gliding down towards hell, that’s all.
Yositam sangi-sangam. Now they are coming to the platform of homosex. This
is their advancement, spiritual advancement. Yositam sangi-sangam. This is
Coca-cola, everywhere. [break] ... mukti, liberation, and the word salvation
is the same? Then what is the meaning of salvation?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 21st May 1975. Morning Walk,
Melbourne, Aus.)
Prabhupada: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even
a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see
that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting
and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are
also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: “Please
accept me.” The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal
group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But don’t
mind, I don’t find any ideal group of men. Even in the priests they
are going to hospital for their drinking habit. I saw in sometimes before
in a hospital, five thousand patients, alcoholic patients, priest. Priest
should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the
ideal character men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for
drinking habit, and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then
where is ideal character?
Director: But homosexual is a sickness.
Devotee: He said it’s an illness.
Director: It’s an illness. It’s just like a person can’t
see, you would punish him for not seeing. You can’t punish a person
for being homosexual. That our society says.
Prabhupada: Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex.
Director: Pardon?
Prabhupada: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that
man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower.
That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning
it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution,
homosex is passed, “All right.” And in Perth you said that the
students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the
ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people
to become ideal character. That is this Krsna consciousness movement.
Director: What you people say what ideal to you is not ideal to somebody else?
Prabhupada: I am giving the example ideal character.
Director: Yeah, but that’s one opinion.
Prabhupada: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value
of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take
as it is enjoined in the sastra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion
of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what
is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this.
Just like when we introduced this “No illicit sex.” I never cared
for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And
what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect
of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what
is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters.
What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class,
fourth-class men’s opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Krsna
said, that is standard, that’s all. Krsna is the Supreme, and His version
is final.
No opinion, no democracy. When you go to a physician, doctor, for treatment,
the physician does not place his prescription for opinion of other patients:
“Now I am prescribing this medicine for this gentleman, now give me
your opinion.” Does he do that? The all patients, what they will think?
The physician is the perfect person. Whatever he has written prescription,
that’s all. But here in the Western... everything, public opinion. What
is the use of such opinion?
Director: You don’t think the patients have any mind of their own?
Prabhupada: They have mind, but that is deprecated mind. Just like madman,
he has got his mind, but what is the value of that mind? You are not going
to take opinion of a madman. He has his mind, but he is a madman. Mudha. Mayayapahrta-jnana.
His knowledge has been taken away. The mind being, what is called, in disordered
condition, there is no value of his opinion.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada - Discussion with Director of Research
of Dept. Social Welfare. 21st May 1975. Morning Walk, Melbourne, Aus.)
Prabhupada: No, the Christian churches, all the priests, they eat meat. They’re
supporting everything, homosex, everything, man to man marriage.
Bali-mardana: Now they are making women the priests.
Prabhupada: Women priest. Women priest, there was none before?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 28th May 1975. Morning Walk, Honolulu,
HI.)
Bahulasva: In California they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal.
So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having
homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.
Prabhupada: They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don’t think.
Bahulasva: Yeah, dogs, they say. We were preaching in this one convention
that the dogs are also fighting. So therefore fighting and murder should be
legal too because the dogs do that also.
Brahmananda: Their argument was because the dogs have homosex, therefore the
man should have...?
Bahulasva: Should have homosex.
Dharmadhyaksa: Yes, if an animal does it, then a human being should have the
same right to do it also.
Jayatirtha: Then they can pass stool in the street also?
Prabhupada: Then what is the difference between man and animal? They do not
find any difference?
Bahulasva: No.
Prabhupada: Then why they find difference in having soul?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 16th July 1975. Morning Walk,
San Francisco. CA.)
Prabhupada: No. Para-daresu. Matravat para-daresu. That is the injunction
of the sas... Other’s wife. Not that “Oh, my wife is also my mother.”
Just see. This lunacy is going on, and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation
of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency.
So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent.
Brahmananda: They are trying to make that more and more accepted in America,
homosex.
Prabhupada: Yes. The churches accept. It is already law.
Nitai: This women’s liberation movement, the leaders are also homosexual.
They’re lesbians.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Just see. Hare Krsna. The whole world is on the verge
of ruination. Kali-yuga. [break]
Brahmananda: ...become ruined. The world is on the verge of ruination, but
it doesn’t become ruined; so therefore they think, “Oh, it doesn’t
matter. We can go on.”
Prabhupada: They do not know what is the meaning of ruination. [break] ...so
many problems. Still it is not on the verge of ruination?
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 6th September 1975. Morning Walk,
Vrindavana.)
Harikesa: Visakha was preaching to her. She said that “Actually we are
less intelligent.” (laughter) That started a big scandal...
Prabhupada: Yes. And that is Krsna consciousness. [break] They are in equal
right, then... Nowadays, of course, they are thinking like that, that man
should remain independent, and they’ll have homosex, and the woman also
independent and they will make some... This is most immoral things.
Indian man: If only people think that they have equal right...
Prabhupada: Where is equal right? Even in Russia there is no equal rights.
They have created some of them are managers, and some of them are workers.
Why? If equal rights, then everyone should be manager.
Harikesa: Well, in America they have women senators now.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: Women senators, women are in charge of companies sometimes.
Indian man: No, in India there are two women. They are high commissioners
of India to the foreign countries.
Prabhupada: No, that is possible. That it requires education. That is another...
By nature the woman’s body is different from man’s.
Indian man: Women are subordinate.
Prabhupada: Not subordinate actually. The occupations are different. It does
not mean... That is another mistake. Just like the leg is walking, and the
head is directing, so although the occupation is different, both of them are
important. We require the head and leg also. If simply head is there, if there
is no leg, then who’ll walk? This is the understanding, not equal. Everyone
must have his separate duties to serve the whole. That is the arrangement.
This is real understanding. The most important part of the body is head, but
that does not mean the leg is not important. Leg is important in its work,
and head is important in its work. So we require both, head and tail both,
not that simply leg or simply head. But when we make comparative study, we
can understand that head is more important than the leg. If you cut your leg,
you can live, but if you cut your head, you’ll die. Therefore the conclusion
is: head is more important than the leg. Comparative study. Otherwise head
is also required and leg is also required. You collect some flowers, nice
flowers, and, add with it some green foliage, it becomes more beautiful. Simply
flower is not so beautiful. When it is arrayed with some green foliage, then
it becomes more beautiful. So we have to take in that sense. But comparatively,
the flower is more important than the foliage. But the both of them are required.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 10th December 1975. Morning Walk,
Vrindavana.)
Prabhupada: .... association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition,
there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class
man section. A first-class.... All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called
priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 17th June 1976. Morning Walk,
Toronto, Canada.)
Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief.
But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.
Pusta Krsna: Am I mis...? You had told me once, I’m not certain. Maybe
I made a mistake. You said that Vasudeva, it was known fact that he
was homosex?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: He was homosex and sex, everything.
Pusta Krsna: Here, Srila Prabhupada, in this city.... I haven’t been
back in so many years to America. Things have become more degraded. I’m
watching women and women walking arm around each other. And I asked, “What
is this?” “Oh,” he says “they are lesbians.”
Women together, girlfriends. They don’t mix with men.
Prabhupada: This is now very much prevalent in America.
Pusta Krsna: No higher consciousness.
Prabhupada: I had one disciple, she was for that purpose (?), yes.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 18th June 1976. Room Conversation,
Toronto, Canada.)
Prabhupada: The hippies are nothing but a group of madmen, that’s all.
A madman, they..., means publicly sex, that’s all. This Allen Ginsberg’s
movement is that, homosex, public sex. Ginsberg was very proud that he had
introduced homosex. He was telling me.
Tamala Krsna: He was telling you?
Prabhupada: When he first came to me he was very proud: “I have introduced
homosex.” He thought very brilliant work it was. And another man, what
is that? He’s put into jail.
Tamala Krsna: Timothy Leary.
Prabhupada: Ha, ha. What is his position now?
Tamala Krsna: I haven’t heard about him in the last few years. He’s
in and out of jail, I think. I saw one time he was just getting out of jail.
It just shows... I think he was a big professor at Harvard. So the idle mind,
devil’s workshop. So he used his big brain for making this LSD. That’s
the value of this Ph.D. degree.
Prabhupada: He was Ph.D.?
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. Big personality. And because of the fact that he was
an important member of the faculty at Harvard, so even though all he produced
was an intoxicant, he gave it so much explanation, that “This is...”
Prabhupada: Transcendental meditation.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 14th July 1977. Room Conversation
on Varnashram. Vrindavan.)
Homosex Sannyasis
Devotee (2): Then when (name witheld) said
to me that he wanted to have homosexual affair with me, I should have said,
“Okay. Whatever you say.” Is that correct?
Prabhupada: So how to answer these questions?
Devotee (2): That is what he said to me. And he was a sannyasa. He is sannyasa
and he said to me, “I want to have sex with you.” Does that mean
that Krsna was saying I should have sex with him?
Jayatirtha: So you have to see whether it is according to our principles.
Devotee (2): I’m asking you on a very practical... No. That is not what
he said. He didn’t say that. He said absolutely, and this is...
Upendra: Then you should listen to everything he said.
Devotee (2): I am. Because if I can judge then, if I can say, “Oh, at
this point he is wrong,” then that is what we are talking about, Srila
Prabhupada. That is the issue. If they are absolutely right all the time and
they can make no error, they wield absolute power over our lives.
Prabhupada: Where is (name witheld)? Where is (he)?
Satsvarupa: He is across the street.
Prabhupada: Has he said like that?
Devotee (2): Yes. I have witnesses.
Upendra: But he’s admitted his error.
Devotee (2): That’s beside the point.
Revatinandana: That’s all right. But that’s not the point here.
Upendra: The point is that Prabhupada, that if you come before Prabhupada
for your own spiritual advancement, then it doesn’t matter what other
people are thinking...
Devotee (2): That’s not the...
Devotee (1): That’s not the crux of the matter at all.
Revatinandana: The point here is not to criticize (him).
Devotee (1): No. We did not come for that at all.
Revatinandana: That wasn’t the reason. The point is that anyone, (name
witheld) or anybody else, he may be a sannyasi, but if he’s doing all
kinds of nonsense, how can we say that he has absolute authority? Because
he was in charge of the place, etc., and he is also in an authoritative position,
yet he breaks the principles.
Devotee (2): His personal servant, when he came... His name is (name witheld).
(He) instigated a homosexual affair with him. This boy came to surrender to
Krsna and surrendered to (him). But (he) told him to do that.
Upendra: But Prabhupada...
Devotee (2): Wait. I am not speaking with you. He said he did that and he
did it in the name of his authority as a sannyasa. So if you say, Prabhupada,
that everything that they say is absolutely true, then they will have absolute
power and can do anything that they want, and anything that they say and any
opinion they express is taken to be the same as yours, then it becomes implied
that you agree with and condone such things, because they do them with absolute
license. And we don’t believe that to be true. So we think it is some
kind of mistake.
Prabhupada: They say like that?
Devotee (1): Everyone says like that.
Devotee (2): They do, Prabhupada.
Satsvarupa: No, they don’t. Srila Prabhupada has said these things don’t
apply to you. Don’t worry about them because you are not following the
principles.
Devotee (1): But they do say, and we are following and you don’t know
what we’re doing, Satsvarupa, because you haven’t known me for
two years. So you really don’t know what I’m doing. You’re
not around.
Satsvarupa: But our society is going nicely. It’s not...
Devotee (2): In some respects it’s going fine. But these are problems
which can be dealt with amongst us, and they are affecting all of us. And
for some people these are problems though they may not be for you. I think,
as far as I know, your conduct has always been very honorable. But for some
people who it’s not and where these misconceptions apply, it’s
a real problem and we’re trying to deal with it because it affects our
lives.
Upendra: The strength to deal with those problems comes from following sadhanacara.
Devotee (2): We are also attempting to follow sadhanacara. And if we are imperfect...
Prabhupada: Anyway, if he has said so, that is wrong.
Devotee (1): But is that then applying to everyone. Does someone who is in
the adminis... (end)
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 26th June 1975. Room Conversation.
LA)
--
Ramesvara: And I found an article in the Time
magazine about another translator of Bhagavad-gita, Christopher Isherwood.
Prabhupada: He is rascal, another rascal.
Ramesvara: They have reported that he is a homosexual.
Prabhupada: Just see. Now, who cares for all these nonsense?
Ramesvara: In regards to brainwashing, they claim that our life-style tends
to take the devotee and isolate him from the world.
Prabhupada: Yes. We hate to mix with you. No gentleman tries to mix with loafers.
In England still, the rich quarter is different from the poor quarter. Is
it not?
Hari-sauri: Not so much. It was though, formerly, very strongly.
Prabhupada: Yes. Aristocratic will never live... Even in America, they don’t
like to live with the blacks.
Ramesvara: No.
Prabhupada: (aside:) That child...? So that separation... Crows will not like
to live with the ducks and white swans. And white swans will not like to live
with the crows. That is natural division. “Birds of the same feather
flock together.”
Jagadisa: And honest men don’t like to associate with thieves and criminals.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is natural. We are not interested even with these daily
newspapers. We are interested Bhagavad-gita. We don’t keep any news.
We know the dogs are barking. That’s all. But that does not mean we
have to mix with the dogs.
Jagadisa: If you know that someone is committing criminal activities, then
if you associate with them, you’ll also become implicated.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sangat sanjayate kamah.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 11th January 1977. Conversation
on train to Allahabad, India.)
Amogha: They think that people who say there is Absolute Truth have not observed
the other thoughts of other people, so they haven’t seen everything.
Prabhupada: What is that other thought? We know everyone’s thought.
We know everyone’s thought.
Amogha: In the university newspaper I was reading, all their discussion is
about things like homosexuality is all right or not all right.
Prabhupada: Accha? They are discussing?
Amogha: Yes. In the newspaper articles in the university. The homosexuals
are campaigning for equal rights. And there is a big debate whether homosexuals
are good or bad. All over the world there are homosexuals, and also they are
arguing over Palestine and Israel. And sometimes (indistinct) In Melbourne
there was fighting between people who support Israel and Palestine. All these
arguments they have in the newspapers.
Paramahamsa: Even in Los Angeles they have a group of homosexuals who used
to get harassed by people all the time. So now they have become a military
group, and they carry weapons. And if anybody harasses them, they shoot them.
They’re called Militant Homosexuals.
Amogha: In one high school here they asked the question whether we accept
homosexuality. And I said, “Of course not. This is only a perversion.”
And they said, “This is nature’s way to stop overpopulation,”
because there won’t be any children. So much foolish.
Prabhupada: How degraded the human society is becoming. And the children,
they are discussing.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 9th May 1975, Morning Walk, Perth,
Australia)
Prabhupada: So miserable condition... That is our conclusion, that either
you remain this side or that side, it is miserable. By mental concoction you
think that “This is better than that.” Therefore Krsna says frankly,
sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. That is only shelter. Mam upetya kaunteya
duhkhalayam asasvatam napnuvanti [Bg. 8.15]. [break] ...take Krsna’s
words as it is. Everything is there. He said, “This material world is
duhkhalayam; it is the place of suffering.” Industrialist, businessman,
anyone, even ordinary man, actually everyone is suffering, but everyone is
thinking, “I am happy.” [break]
Brahmananda: ...because there is some sex pleasure, that makes it tolerable.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the, what is called, topmost ignorance, topmost ignorance,
that “This is happiness.” So the materialistic person means only
for that happiness they are suffering so much, this way. They agree, “Yes.”
Just like Dr., er, Bon Maharaja was speaking that they are talking freely?
Brahmananda: Oh, about homosexuality.
Prabhupada: “Oh, yes. What is the wrong? It is pleasure.” They
take it as pleasure.
Brahmananda: The priests. They’re in the theological seminary, and they
are priests, and they are saying that “It is pleasurable, so why not
do it?”
Prabhupada: And what is the pleasure? Stool-passing and urine-passing points
are joined together, and it is pleasure. Just see their standard of pleasure.
Just like the pigs. With pleasure, they eat stool. So they think it is pleasure.
Standard of pleasure has gone down so low. This is Kali-yuga. [break] ...advanced.
He has disciple, guru, but he knows that he is suffering whole life for this
institution. Still he’ll not give it up.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 1st September 1975. Morning Walk,
Vrindavan.)
Tamala Krsna: The translation is, “For the soul there is never birth
nor death nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal,
ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.”
Prabhupada: So there is no question of death for a spiritually realized person.
Interviewer: Is there any method for dissent within your movement? Or change?
Tamala Krsna: Reform, you mean? Changing the teaching perhaps, to fit the
times?
Ramesvara: Just like in the church, as the public mood is changed, they have
compromised on certain issues like abortion, homosexuality, priests getting
married. So she wants to know if in our movement there will be this arrangement
also. (laughter)
Interviewer: Well, I didn’t necessarily mean the specifics.
Bali-mardana: In other words the purity is maintained by... The system is
perfect to begin with so it remains perfect by being unchanged. If the system
is imperfect, you may always be questioning.
Prabhupada: Yes. When the system is imperfect, then it has to be changed according
to time and circumstance. But if the system is itself perfect, there is no
question of... Just like the perfect system: the sun rises from the eastern
side. So for millions and trillions of years the system is going on because
the system is perfect. It doesn’t require change, neither you can change.
You cannot ask the sun to rise from the western side. So if the soul is eternal,
it does not die or it is slain after the body is finished. But that is eternal
fact. Destined in the past present and future, everything.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 14th July 1976. Interview with
Newsweek. New York.)
Amogha: In the university newspaper I was reading, all their discussion is
about things like homosexuality is all right or not all right.
Prabhupada: Accha? They are discussing?
Amogha: Yes. In the newspaper articles in the university. The homosexuals
are campaigning for equal rights. And there is a big debate whether homosexuals
are good or bad. All over the world there are homosexuals, and also they are
arguing over Palestine and Israel. And sometimes (indistinct) In Melbourne
there was fighting between people who support Israel and Palestine. All these
arguments they have in the newspapers.
Paramahamsa: Even in Los Angeles they have a group of homosexuals who used
to get harassed by people all the time. So now they have become a military
group, and they carry weapons. And if anybody harasses them, they shoot them.
They’re called Militant Homosexuals.
Amogha: In one high school here they asked the question whether we accept
homosexuality. And I said, “Of course not. This is only a perversion.”
And they said, “This is nature’s way to stop overpopulation,”
because there won’t be any children. So much foolish.
Prabhupada: How degraded the human society is becoming. And the children,
they are discussing.
Amogha: It seems that step by step, in the law courts and the judges, everyone
is step by step accepting more and more degradation, and makind it legal,
everything.
(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 9th May 1975, Morning Walk, Perth
Australia.)
Krishna as the Principle of Sex
Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita that He is sex according to religious principles. So that sex, within marriage for having a nice Krishna conscious child, is very good. But otherwise sex, be it homosexual or hetrosexual is simply meant for the pleasure of the senses of the people involved. It is not being done for the service and pleasure of Krishna. So it is not allowed in Krishna consciousness.
In Krishna consciousness sex is for having nice God conscious children and such sex is Krishna Himself and is very glorious. But other sex is illicit sex and it is prohibited for a devotee. At the time of initiation a devotee has to accept vows including “no illicit sex” which that means no sex except within marriage for having children. It seems to some to be an almost impossible task as we are so attached to sex and think it is so important… But a devotee experiences a higher taste, a greater pleasure. A devotee fully engaged in Krishna consciousness under the direction of a bona fide pure devotee spiritual master is constantly enjoying a greater pleasure than sex from serving Krishna. So for him sex is not a very important thing at all.
A devotee of Krishna does not try to satisfy his own senses, he tries to satisfy Krishna’s senses. We understand that Krishna is the source of everything and that everyone is part and parcel of Krishna, so if we satisfy Krishna everyone, including ourselves, will be satisfied. It is like watering a tree. If you want to nourish the whole tree, all the branches, leaves, flowers, etc., you simply supply water to the root of the tree and the entire tree is satisfied. So if we simply satisfy Krishna, the root of the entire creation, then everyone, including ourselves, will be satisfied.
On the other hand, if we try to satisfy ourselves without any connection with Krishna by sex and other things we will never actually be satisfied. This type of sense gratification is like putting fuel into a fire. The fire simply burns even more and requires even more fuel to maintain it… So having sex is not at all satisfying, one simply wants more and more sex and even if he gets it he is still not satisfied and the results are actually very bad. There are so many diseases and a man looses his energy, strength and determination if he looses too much semen.
Of course the sex desire is very strong and many devotees have fallen down from spiritual life because of it. But even if there is a fall down, if one seriously continues in Krishna consciousness sooner or later all the desires for sex will disappear through the transcendental biss of devotional service.
