The Living Guru Concoction

[2003 UPDATE: This living guru philosophy was upheld by the GBC's supporters (mostly from the Gaudiya Matha) like Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, both Puri maharajas and so on, they said you have to worship the GBC as gurus because you need to worship "a living (body) guru." So they were saying, either knowingly or not, "The deviants that Srila Prabhupada said are giving him poison, you have to worship them because they are living."]

Anyway, Prabhupada gave many warnings. He said, "I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru and become guru themselves." And he summarized the deviants of the Gaudiya Math: "As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished." So this is rather remarkable that in the Gaudiya Math they had the philosophy that you need a living guru. They say, "You need a living body to worship. You can't worship the dead body of Bhaktisiddhanta, he's a dead body. You have to worship me, I'm a living body." Of course, they didn't mention the fact that they happened to poison Bhaktisiddhanta to get his body dead in the first place. So you kill somebody and then you say, "Oh, he's dead, why do you worship him? He's dead." So this would be like the Roman soldiers who killed Jesus now saying, "Well, look, he's a dead body. You have to worship me now. I'm a living body."

So they don't understand that by killing Prabhupada or being connected to the conspiracy or individuals who poisoned him and now then declaring that you're living, this is not the qualification for guru. It is not simply that you are breathing. In ISKCON today, this is what they say all the time, "You need to be living. The guru is living." No, a guru is not just a person who is breathing.

A person who is breathing might be a criminal. There are many people in prison right now that are breathing, but they're not gurus. A guru is a person who is pure. So they've misunderstood that, and they say that "You need to have a living guru." So this also happened, the point is, in the 1930's. They killed their guru and then, as Prabhupada says, "Now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished," Prabhupada says. This was August 16th, 1976, one year before Prabhupada departed. He is warning his followers, "Watch out. Don't kill your guru and try to become guru like they did in Gaudiya Math. Then you'll be finished." So he understood the psychology, the mentality that was there even in his own leaders, these people might try to kill their guru and declare themselves to be the next guru. Of course he concluded that if they do that, it will not last, they will be finished. The GBC guru empire is slowly collapsing and dwindling just as he predicted.

So Srila Prabhupada said also on the 13th of January, 1977, "These artificial claims to be guru are weapons. That was his only endeavor, how he," the Gaudiya Math guru who poisoned his guru to become guru, "could legally occupy the bricks and stones of the Gaudiya Math. That's all. He has no other ambition. It was simply a show. But the real purpose was to occupy, how to take the whole property. A business." So Srila Prabhupada explains the actual motive of these people who get rid of their guru and declare themselves to be his successors by artificial means is simply so they can "legally occupy the bricks and stones." In other words, it's a means of grabbing money. It's a simple motive. Why do people get murdered all the time, it is for money. They murder people, they shoot people in the bank, shoot people in the store, and they kill their boss, and they kill whoever is an innocent bystander in the way of taking money from people.

This is a common thing in this material world, it's not at all unusual. So that's the motive, and definitely that's what has happened in ISKCON. It's a legal takeover. They now say that "Anyone who objects to us, we're going to sue them, we're going to take them to court." They have no interest in discussing anything openly. The first thing the post-1977 GBC do is to say, we shall take you to court, or at least threaten to take you to court. So this also happened in the post-1936 Gaudiya Math. This man took over the property, and anyone who questioned, he said, "Go to court, take me to court." Same psychology: Kill guru, become guru, occupy the properties, then make a legal challenge to anyone who questions your authenticity. Gangster mentality. Take by force, then purchase a lawyer to protect your illegal ill gotten gains. As Srila Prabhupada says, a business. He calls this "the guru business."

So Prabhupada says here, April 20th, 1977, "We haven't got to manufacture. To manufacture idea is troublesome. Why should we take the trouble? As soon as you want to manufacture something to my..., that is dangerous." "'What our guru has said, that is life and soul. But we don't want that.' Ara na kariha mane." "As soon as this poison will come – 'Suppress guru and I become Brahman' – then everything is finished. Spiritual life is finished. Gaudiya Math finished, that..., violated the orders of Guru Maharaja."

So notice again, Prabhupada uses the word here "poison," meaning "If you try to take over your guru's mission (as they did in the Gaudiya Matha) this is poison." So it's interesting. He was poisoned, and so is the whole idea of taking over the mission. Srila Prabhupada explains, this mentality is also poison. And again, 21 April, 1977, Srila Prabhupada says, "Our mission is to serve bhakti-visesa and live with devotees. Not that you take the place of guru. That is all nonsense, very dangerous."

[2003 UPDATE: Notice that this guru takeover mentality is considered as "very dangerous." That means people can get killed, danger.]

"Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become ambitious to take the place of guru – gurusu nara-matih naraka sa. That is material disease." So he was giving a warning here to his leaders, seeing that they were motivated. He's saying, "Be careful, this is very dangerous." And Srila Prabhupada even says that the false gurus of the Gaudiya Math, he compares them to ferocious snakes. This is May 24th, 1977. "These rascals, Gaudiya Math," referring to the false Vaisnava guru factions that emerged after 1936 in India. "If somebody thinks, 'Oh, here is a snake with a jewel. Let me embrace him,' no, no, no, it is very ferocious. Similarly, these various false guru parties are very envious. Even if it has a jewel, it is ferocious. Although they have become Vaisnava, they are ferocious. They have not acquired the qualification of Vaisnava. Simply vesopidin, by dress."

[2003 UPDATE: Yes, these statements are very clear and very direct, this "guru takeover" mentality is the same as the mentality of a ferocious snake. "Ferocious snake" means: they will use poison, just as a ferocious snake uses poison.]

So this is another interesting thing, that in 1990 the GBC cited their then "spiritual advisor" Narayana Maharaja, in their "ISKCON Journal" published by Satsvarupa, Tamal Krishna, and the GBC said that this above man who Prabhupada says here is like a snake with a jewel, they said "he is our example of a nice guru, a bona fide guru," the person Prabhupada says is very dangerous.

[2003 Update: The 1990 ISKCON Journal cited Narayana Maharaja that Sridhara Maharaja (founder father of the deviant 1936 homosexual guru's party); Madhava Maharaja (the person who almost physically threatened violence to Srila Prabhupada and demanded he quit using the title of "Prabhupada"); and Tirtha Maharaja (the above mentioned snake with a jewel), are all bona fide gurus (acharyas). So there is a connection between the 1936 "kill guru and become guru" party, the guru poisoners, the guru threateners, the guru insulters, the guru takeover plotters, and the post-1977 ISKCON GBC.]

Srila Prabhupada: "I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru and become guru themselves". "As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished." (Srila Prabhupada 1976).

GURU CHEATING NOT EFFECTIVE (April 22.77).

Prabhupada: People complained against [a GBC for trying to appear as a guru]. ...You become guru, but you must be QUALIFIED FIRST of all. THEN you become. ...What is the use of producing some RASCAL GURU?
Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, so we CANNOT BE gurus. MAYBE someday it may be possible....
Prabhupada: Hm. [agrees]
Tamala Krishna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru, 'No you become acharya. You become authorized.' I retire completely. But the training must be COMPLETE.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there. ...No rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and "guru." What kind of guru?

Srila Prabhupada: We haven't got to manufacture. To manufacture ideas is troublesome. Why should we take the trouble? And as soon as you want to manufacture something to my...., that is DANGEROUS. ...That you are singing every day, "what our guru has said, that is our life and soul." ...As soon as this POISON will come -suppress guru and I become Brahman- everything FINISHED. Spiritual life is finished. Gaudiya Matha finished, ...VIOLATED the orders of Guru Maharaja.

...And as soon as you manufacture, fall down. This manufacturing idea is very, very dangerous in spiritual life. ...Our mission is to serve bhakta visesa and live with devotees. NOT THAT YOU TAKE THE PLACE OF GURU. THAT IS NONSENSE, VERY DANGEROUS. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become AMBITIOUS to TAKE THE PLACE of GURU-gurusuh nara matih. That is MATERIAL DISEASE.

Srila Prabhupada: Don't be allured by cheap disciples. Go on steadfastly to render service first. If you immediately become guru, then the service activities will be stopped; and as there are so many cheap gurus and cheap disciples, without any substantial knowledge, and manufacturing new sampradayas, and with service activities stopped, and all spiritual progress choked up. (SPL (VI 1987) 68.8.17)

Srila Prabhupada: "This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This is what I want." (to Madhudvisa 4 Aug, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada: "I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and ALL the members of the Society, they're supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME spiritually" - (Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)

Srila Prabhupada: "I wish that each and every branch shall keep their separate identity and cooperate keeping the acharya in the center. On this principle we can open any number of branches all over the world. The Rama Krishna mission works on this principle and thus as an organization they have done wonderfully." (letter 11th Feb. 1967)

Srila Prabhupada: He [Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja] never recommended anyone to be acharya of the Gaudiya Math.... If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acharya, he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acharya. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Rupanuga das, April 28, 1974)

"All of my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I--one--may soon pass away. But they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It's not that I'll give an order: "Here is the next leader." Anyone who follows the previous leadership is a leader... All of my disciples are leaders, as much as they follow purely. If you want to follow, you can also lead. But you don't want to follow. Leader means one who is a first class disciple. Evam param parapraptam. One who follows is perfect." (SP BTG Vol. 13, No. 1-2)

YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR ...

In 1979-1980, one of the living gurus [Tamal Krishna] (now a dead guru) had incensed the others by claiming that he possessed Prabhupada's exclusive "guru shakti" or potency. The other gurus were thus considering how to excommunicate this deviant guru brother. But in December 1980, at the Topanga Canyon Pyramid House Talks, California, Tamal made a dramatic turnabout. He admitted that Srila Prabhupada had never appointed any "living successor" gurus:

Tamal Krishna: "Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He did not appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritvik (officiating priests). He never appointed them as gurus. Myself and the other G.B.C. have done the greatest disservice to this movement for the last three years, because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus....

"(What Srila Prabhupada said was), "All right, I will appoint so many,' and he named them. He made it very clear that they (new members) were still to be his disciples. At that point it was very clear in my mind that they were his disciples....

"Now I understand that what he did was very clear. He was physically incapable of performing the function of initiating physically; therefore he appointed officiating priests to initiate on his behalf. He appointed eleven and he said very clearly, 'Whoever is nearest, he can initiate.'

"This is a very important point, because when it comes to initiating, it is not 'whoever is nearest.' It is wherever your heart goes_to whom you can repose your faith in.

"But when it is officiating, it's 'whoever is nearest,' and he was very clear.... 'Whoever is nearest will check you out. Then, on my behalf, they will initiate....'"

"If it had been more than that (officiating priests), you can bet your bottom dollar that Prabhupada would have spoken for days and hours and weeks on end about how to set up this thing with the gurus.... But he did not, because he already said it a million times. He said, 'My guru maharaja did not appoint anyone. It is by qualification.' We made a great mistake...."

"You cannot show me anything on tape or in writing where Prabhupada says, 'I appoint these eleven as gurus.' It does not exist, because He never appointed any gurus. This is a myth."

So here Tamal Krishna admits that there never was an appointment of regular gurus; Srila Prabhupada only appointed rtviks (officiating priests). However, he assumes that after Srila Prabhupada left, that it was "only natural" for those eleven rtviks and then more that would be added later, to become regular gurus, even though Srila Prabhupada never instructed such a thing.

Although there was no appointment of anything but ritviks, at Topanga Canyon Tamal thinks that regular gurus can be self-appointed. Of course, his future statements and writings contradict this thesis and themselves in a maze of confusing mumbo-jumbo.

Srila Prabhupada: "This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This is what I want." (to Madhudvisa 4 Aug, 1975)

please also read: the current link philosophy
Jayapatka Swami says Srila Prabhupada is dead

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