The Rescuer Must be Liberated
BY: MAHESH RAJA
Dec 28, UK (SUN) — This is a continuation of my earlier posting, "Suria dasa's Audacious Proposal.
Bg 7.14 Purport - Knowledge of the Absolute:
"Another
meaning of guna is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul
is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet
cannot free himself--he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because
the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore,
only Lord Krsna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can
release the conditioned soul."
Bg
7.14 Purport - Knowledge of the Absolute
"Another
meaning of guna is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul
is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet
cannot free himself--he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because
the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore,
only Lord Krsna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can
release the conditioned soul."
Suriya
das Prabhu quotes:
"A
person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but
there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still
can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic
succession." (New York, 26 April, 1968)
Yes
they CAN **ACT AS** in Officiating (Ritvik) Acarya capacity. The disciples
are Srila Prabhupada’s, NOT of the one who ACTS AS guru or Acarya.
However, they CAN NOT give DIKSA to Madhyama adhikari as they are “less qualified or not liberated” (refer to my article).
Srila
Prabhupada is THE Acarya. He not only ACTS AS but is FACTUALLY THE LIBERATED
ACARYA. The BONAFIDE rescuer.
Bhagavad-gita
7.14 Purport:
"Because
the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer MUST be liberated. Therefore,
only Lord Krsna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can
release the conditioned soul."
HOW
can you expect one who ACTS AS acarya who is a (less qualified or not liberated)
conditioned soul himself give DIKSA to Madhyama Adhikari? Can you give
something to ANOTHER if you YOURSELF do NOT possess?
Krishna
is NOT the property of CONDITIONED soul to transfer Him to another’s
heart.
Diksa
is illustrated graphically here. Vasudeva was on Suddha sattva platform, this
is why from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki:
Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
"Thereafter,
accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of
Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from
the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been initiated
by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness
for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just
as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT:
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead
was transferred from the core of Vasudeva's mind or heart to the core of the
heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred
to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa,
initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless
one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart
the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry
the Supreme Godhead within the core of one's own heart."
You
can NOT NOT NOT have one initiating guru (less qualified or not
liberated) then expect Srila Prabhupada will give DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari
stage to you. These THEN makes TWO Diksa gurus: one initiates at FORMALITY
and another LIBERATED (Srila Prabhupada) at Madhyama adhikari stage. That
is against the sastra.
Caitanya-caritamrta
Adi lila 1.35 - The Spiritual Masters:
"A
devotee must have only one initiating spiritual master because
in the scriptures acceptance of more than one is always forbidden."
"The
spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called
siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called
diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual
masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one."
Suria
dasa's audacious proposal is he wants to get rid of Srila Prabhupada and REPLACE
him with bogus GBC voted conditioned soul “Diksa” gurus. We have
PROVED his conditioned soul “Diksa” guru theory is completely
bogus. He tried to justify Srila Prabhupada’s quote “
who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as
guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession.
“ but it backfired. The initiator is ONE.
So
let us ask him TWO questions:
1) EXACTLY
when did Srila Prabhupada EVER state that he has STOPPED giving DIKSA at Madhyama
Adhikari stage to the countless generations of devotees still to come? (refer
to my article).
2)
Since NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada was EVER given that they ARE Acarya (Uttama
Adhikari) HOW can they give DIKSA? I am NOT talking of FORMALITY
of initiation. (Refer
to my article).
Conclusion:
The
question of who gives DIKSA in ISKCON next after Srila Prabhupada ONLY arises
IF it is ***PROVED*** beyond doubt that Srila Prabhupada is NOT capable of
giving DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari stage. Madhyama adhikari is the RECIPIENT
of DIKSA. We are NOT talking of FORMALITY initiation.
Srila
Prabhupada 75-08-04 Letter to Madhudvisa:
"This
is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya.
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU,
and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing
what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform.
This I want."
Many
of the quotes below may be repeated, but I have also added some extra notes.
Please read below:
SB
1.7.22 P - The Son of Drona Punished:
"The
spiritual master, by his words, can penetrate into the heart
of the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental, which alone can
extinguish the fire of material existence."
Srila
Prabhupada and his words are on the transcendental platform therefore his
purports to the SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM is the CURRENT LINK. AS LONG
AS WE HAVE PRABHUPADA'S PURPORTS TO THE SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM HE
WILL BE OUR CURRENT LINK BECAUSE **THE REAL**
MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM ARE ***HIS PURPORTS***.
SB
2.9.7
"As
already stated, Brahma is the original spiritual master for the universe,
and since he was initiated by the Lord Himself, the MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM
IS COMING DOWN BY DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION, and in order to receive THE
REAL MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM one should approach THE CURRENT LINK,
or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession."
CC
ADI 1.35
"There
is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER'S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE
SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words
of direction should be the pride of the disciple."
Srila
Prabhupada is IDENTICAL with his PURPORTS.
SB
1.2.18 P - Divinity and Divine Service:
"Bhagavata
book and person are identical."
Adi
1.99 T - The Spiritual Masters
"One
of the bhagavatas is the great scripture Srimad-Bhagavatam,
and the other is the pure devotee absorbed in the mellows of loving
devotion."
Adi
1.100 - The Spiritual Masters
"Through
the actions of these two bhagavatas the Lord instills the mellows of transcendental
loving service into the heart of a living being, and thus the Lord, in
the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of the devotee's love."
68-05-28
Letter to Malati:
"Similarly,
the Spiritual Master also can be present wherever the disciple wants.
A Spiritual Master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television
can be seen in thousands of places by the principle of relay monitoring."
Suria
das prabhu wrote:
“And
this understanding IN no way supports the outlandish claim of the Ritviks
that Srila Prabhupada will remain diksa guru even after he left the material
world. Srila Prabhupada can appoint a Guru while he is around but he did not
do so as he said... "on my order'' one can actually be Guru. But since
he did not order, it means one can be a Guru after Srila Prabhupada
departs where it is confirmed as: Because in my presence one should not become
guru".
So
AT LAST we have an ADMISSION Srila Prabhupada DID NOT ORDER.
Thank you very much, Suria das Prabhu.
Srila
Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan:
Prabhupada:
"When I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's
all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's it."
“When
I order” -- NO ORDER WAS GIVEN
Srila
Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupada:
"Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru
when he's ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru."
Physical
presence of the spiritual master is NOT required. We have to choose the PROMINENT
and Srila Prabhupada IS the PROMINENT ACARYA .
Srila
Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, April 12, 1968:
"Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps.
Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna
to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and
between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said
that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him
directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was
taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned
only three names in this parampara system--namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku;
and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We
have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There
are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to
record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have
to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong
to."
Srimad-Bhagavatam
2.9.8 Purport - Answers by Citing the Lord' s Version:
"The
potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the
vibrator is apparently absent."
Srila
Prabhupada is ever present in his Murti (Deity) form - in ALL
temples we do Guru Puja to HIM. Offer Vyasa Puja to HIM. His books are there.
His CDs are there. Srila Prabhupada’s words are there - his instructions.
The word used above is “APPARENTLY absent” so it does not
mean Srila Prabhupada is no longer present he is “Apparently”
absent.
Srila Prabhupada's Lecture, January
13, 1969, Los Angeles:
"…the
spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel.
Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider
that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na... Gurusu means
those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is
denied in the sastras. So although a physical body is not present, the
vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration.
What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living."
Caitanya-caritamrta
Adi lila 1.35 - The Spiritual Masters:
"There
is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual
master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction
should be the pride of the disciple."
The
disciplic succession even in Srila Prabhupada’s books do NOT have this
Maharaja that Maharaja etc added to it. 30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA."
That’s it.
Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Upendra,
February 13, 1968:
"There
are four Sampradayas from the beginning of the creation. One is called Brahma
Sampradaya, and is coming down by disciplic succession from Brahma; another
Sampradaya is coming down from Laksmi, called Sri Sampradaya; another is coming
down from the Kumaras, they are known as Nimbarka Sampradaya; another Sampradaya
is coming from Lord Siva, Rudra Sampradaya or Visnu Swami. These are four
bona fide Sampradayas that are accepted by the bona fide spiritualists. The
Impersonalist Sampradaya is not original neither the Impersonalist Sampradaya
or party can help us. At the present moment there are so many Sampradayas,
but we have to test them about their method of disciplic understanding. Anyway,
all the four Sampradayas above mentioned, they are after worshipping the Supreme
Lord Visnu, in His different Expansions, and some of them are in favor of
worshipping Radha Krishna. In the later age the Brahma Sampradaya was handed
down though Madhva Acarya; in this Madhva Acarya disciplic succession came
Isvara Puri. This Isvara Puri was accepted as Spiritual Master of Lord Caitanya.
Therefore, we being in disciplic succession of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we are
known as the Madhva Sampradaya. And because Lord Caitanya appeared in Bengal,
which country is called Gaudadesa, our Sampradaya party is known as Madhva
Gaudiya Sampradaya. But all these Sampradayas are non-different from one another
because they believe and worship the Supreme Lord. Any other Sampradaya who
are Impersonalist or voidist or non-devotee, they are rejected by us. MY GURU
MAHARAJA WAS IN THE 10TH GENERATION FROM LORD CAITANYA. WE ARE 11TH FROM LORD
CAITANYA. THE DISCIPLIC SUCESSION IS AS FOLLOWS: 1. SRI KRISHNA, 2. BRAHMA,
3. NARADA, 4. VYASA, 5. MADHVA, 6. PADMANABHA, 7. NRIHARI, 8. MADHAVA, 9.
AKSHOBHYA, 10. JAYATIRTHA, 11. JNANASINDHU, 12. PURUSOTTAMA, 13. VIDYANIDHI,
14. RAJENDRA, 15. JAYADHARMA, 16. PURUSOTTAMA, 17. VYASATIRTHA, 18. LAKSMIPATI,
19. MADHAVENDRA PURI, 20. ISVARA PURI (ADVAITA, NITYANANDA) 21. SRI CAITANYA
MAHAPRABHU, 22. (SVARUPA, SANATANA) RUPA, 23.(JIVA) RAGHUNATH, 24. KRISHNA
DASA, 25. NAROTTAMA, 26. VISVANATHA, 27. (BALADEVA.) JAGANNATHA, 28. (BHAKTIVINODE)
GAURA-KISORA, 29. SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI, SRI BARSHABHANAVIDAYITADAS,
30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA."
Srimad-Bhagavatam
3.29.17 Purport - Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila:
"In
Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute
devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting
the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, A SPIRITUAL MASTER
WHO KNOWS THINGS AS THEY ARE. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC
SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL
MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO
ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS."
Isopanisad
12:
"The
Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional service--which is
the one and only way to approach the Personality of Godhead--one attains complete
freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In other words, the path of salvation
from the material clutches fully depends on the principles of knowledge and
detachment gained from serving the Lord. The pseudo religionists have neither
knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live
in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic
activities disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious
sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all
sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and
devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for
the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession.
THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA--"ONE MUST WORSHIP THE
ACARYA" -- and Krsna's statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam,
"This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession."
Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called
acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. These
rogues are the MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS in human society. Because there is
no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They
cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in
the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists
shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD
CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS
PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS,
WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION."
Srila
Prabhupada IS our BONA FIDE spiritual master from TIME ETERNAL. And those
who reject him are deviants who are after PERSONAL AGGRANDIZEMENT personal
worship, money, followers.
Bg
4.42 P - Transcendental Knowledge:
A
BONA FIDE spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from TIME ETERNAL,
and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord as
they were imparted millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions
of Bhagavad-gita have come down to the earthly kingdom. One should, therefore,
follow the path of Bhagavad-gita as it is expressed in the Gita itself and
BEWARE OF SELF-INTERESTED PEOPLE AFTER PERSONAL AGGRANDIZEMENT WHO DEVIATE
OTHERS FROM THE ACTUAL PATH.
srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine
namah--obeisances; om--address; visnu-padaya--unto him who is at the feet
of Lord Visnu; krsna-presthaya--who is very dear to Lord Krsna; bhu-tale--on
the earth; srimate--all-beautiful; bhaktivedanta-svamin--A. C. Bhaktivedanta
Swami; iti--thus; namine--who is named.
I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at
His lotus feet.
namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine
nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine
namah--obeisances; te--unto you; sarasvate deve--servant of Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati Gosvami; gaura-vani--the message of Lord Caitanya; pracarine--who
are preaching, nirvisesa--(from) impersonalism; sunya-vadi--(from) voidism;
pascatya--Western; desa--countries; tarine--who are delivering.
Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant
of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanyadeva
and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism
and voidism.
Sooooo-----WHO
is DELIVERING?
Suria
das prabhu writes:
[Mahesh
Prabhu wrote:
"Seen
as Uttama Adhikari" is NOT the same as ACCEPT the Uttama Adhikari. That is
just jugglery of words."
What
is this word jugglery? I see Srila Prabhupada as an Uttama Adhikari, what
is the difference between ''seen'' or "accept"? ]
Suria
das Prabhu wrote EARLIER:
"Similarly
if any of Srila Prabhupada's disciple or anyone is preaching and inspiring
devotees than he can be seen as a Uttama Adikari by his respective disciples.
It does not matter if such a Spiritual master comes from ISKCON, Gaudiya math
or anywhere else, the main point here is "PREACHING".
So
we can see all Suria das prabhus attempt is to bring UTTAMA ADHIKARI Srila
Prabhupada to his level of conditioned soul “gurus”.
This is all bogus. HOW can you see conditioned soul “gurus” manufactured
by fake GBC to be “seen” as Uttama Adhikari?
They
are opportunist, they use Srila Prabhupada’s fame to gain FREE
servants , money, hidden sex life etc . Bait and switch - they say something
nice about Srila Prabhupada but they want you to become THEIR disciples use
you and screw money and out of you. It is a Con trick.
760628bj.nv Conversations:
Pusta
Krsna: What about the so-called gurus that take a little bit here and
a little bit there?
Prabhupada:
So-called gurus, they are so-called gurus. They are not gurus. That is already
explained. If one does not speak what Krsna speaks, he is not guru. If you
accept so-called guru, that is your misfortune. What can be done?
Pusta
Krsna: Some of them will say some things that Krsna says, but they'll
take from other places also. What is the position of such persons?
Prabhupada: He's most dangerous. He's most dangerous. He is opportunist. He's finding out customer, something here... According to the customer he is giving something, as the customers will be pleased. So he is not guru. He's a servant. He wants to serve the so-called disciples so that he may be satisfied and pay him something. He's servant. He's not guru. Guru is the master. You cannot disobey guru. But if you become a servant, you want to please the disciple by flattering him to get his money, then you are not guru, you are servant. Just like a servant pleases the master. He's not guru. He's servant. So our position should be servant, yes, but servant of the Supreme. So guru means heavy. You cannot utilize him for satisfying your whims. That is not guru.