Rocana das

"PADA DEBATES ROCANA"!   (UPDATE PT. 1)
Qoted from Pada Newsletter 6. August 2007 [SDG/ Rocana/ ITV/ B. Caru]

PADA NOTE! We are not picking on Rocana personally, he merely represents the many thousands of "goody-two shoes devotees" who went along with the bogus GBC gurus, and he gives their arguments. We have had the same arguments from hundreds or even thousands of like minded folks: "Oh, most of the gurus are bad, but one of them is pretty good, Narayana Maharaja supported them but he is a pure person, so the whole thing is valid because -- one or a few of them are bona fide" -- and so on! Nope!

July 30, CANADA (SUN) - A weekly response to Dandavats editorials.
BY: ROCANA DASA

Today's Obeisances is in response to the recent letter of apology from Satsvarupa das Goswami, which read: Dear Devotees, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I have come to realize that my book "Sanitorium" contains explicit sexual scenes and references. I am sorry I have written it. I apologize and promise not to write a book like this again. Yours in service to Prabhupada, Satvarupa das Goswami Interestingly, this apology letter was submitted to Dandavats with an opening statement from the Euro-GBC. Why it is that such a communique on Satsvarupa didn't come from the North American GBC, since Satsvarupa has spent his time in North American for many years now?]

(*1) APPOINTED GURUS? Why did Rocana and his "team" (Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari/ Gaura Govinda swamis etc.) support the post-1977 bogus "appointed guru's" project which has promoted Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami (SDG) as "a diksha guru" in the first place? Rocana is confuting his own arguments. First of all, (a) Srila Prabhupada says "gurus are not appointed -- as they were in the Gaudiya Matha" (defeats Rocana's team from square one). (b) Rocana refuses to answer our original 1978 question, "What capacity were they (SDG) apppointed as, since all the written and legal evidence says: they were only appointed as priests (ritviks)." (c) Rocana simultaneously says to us he "does not know what capacity they were appointed as, because it is not clear (which is what Rocana's team's actual guru -- SDG -- says)." (d) Simultaneously Rocana says, one thing is clear "they are gurus" (again citing his authority: SDG). Simultaneously Rocana says (e) "Satsvarupa never was a guru."

Rocana is all over the map here, probably so no one can pin down his actual point. Or does he even know what his actual point is since no one else can figure it out? Rocana's team complains against our guru, Srila Prabhupada, saying that he issues defective instructions by his apppointing ersatz gurus. Never mind that Srila Prabhupada said, about five thousand times, that after he departs there will be ONLY "officiating" devotees, brahmanas, agents, representatives, Governing Body, priests (ritviks), but not gurus. Apparently Rocana's team never took the time to read the related citations >from Srila Prabhupada. Meanwhile, (f) while admitting they "do not know" (because they never reads PADA where we cite Srila Prabhupada) they pontificates on this topic endlessly? Then (g) Rocana's team is giving the impression that Srila Prabhupada -- has -- appointed DEFECTIVE souls as gurus like SDG or else "Srila Prabhupada would not be in the tradition." Yet Rocana never explains -- which previous acharyas in our tradition -- were defective, or appointed, or voted in, or zonal, or fallen, or writing sex novels, ... or so on -- ad infinitum?

At least now we know why the children of ISKCON were confused into thinking "Srila Prabhupada wanted you to worship deviants and molesters as your gurus," this has been Rocana's team's mantra. Rocana gives mutually exclusive and contrary versions of his idea simultaneously, while never citing Srila Prabhupada's actual orders. With all this diametrically opposed confusion, no wonder Rocana's "gurus," and no small amount of their followers, require therapy and percodan medications. Then Rocana wonders why his wonderful "appointed diksha gurus" are falling into illicit sex? Sometimes a light bulb goes off and he says, they NEVER were gurus, but then he says, they were not appointed as anything other than gurus (because Srila Prabhupada is defective)?

This means Rocana is attacking Srila Prabhupada as being "mistaken" because he "appointed conditioned souls as his diksha guru successors." Maybe the answer to all this is: (f) Rocana's team "appointed" all these bogus diksha gurus themselves and changed the "officiator" designation by concoction and speculation (as occured in the Gaudiya Matha). And then Rocana's bogus gurus followed Sridhara Maharaja's Vatican style guru voting system, and they voted in more gurus like Bhakti Marga to try to cover up the tracks of their first mistake, -- and yet now that the manure is hitting the fan blades -- they are trying to blame Srila Prabhupada for ALL the above, actually -- their own "mistakes."

(*2) VOTED IN GURUS? How was Rocana's "good friend and best pal" Bhakti Marga Swami "voted in" as SDG's contempory and "current co-guru"? Srila Prabhupada says that the guru is not established by a system of "mundane votes" (defeats Rocana again from square one). More of Rocana's contradictions: (a) SDG is the person who established the "guru by vote system." (b) Rocana says SDG is bogus -- and so is his "guru by vote" system. Yet, (c) Bhakti Marga is a diksha guru, despite being voted in by SDG's bogus system? Rocana has defeated himself, actually chasing his own tail -- again. And Rocana's team never explains their "guru by vote system," if two-thirds vote for Bhakti Marga, and one third says he is a deviant, how come he is still "a guru" if one-third says -- he is a deviant. And have not Rocana's guru "voters" made all kinds of other "guru voting mistakes" already, such as voting in deviants as their gurus? Rocana cannot begin to explain one word of any of his contrary ideas here, or show where any of his concoctions are in "the tradition" -- hence he refuses to debate with PADA. And how can the voters and re-instators of pedophile gurus -- vote in -- any bona fide person, at all? Rocana never answers for 20 years, no wonder, his team cannot debate a ball of sweater fuzz.

(*3) WORSHIP "NO LONGER PRACTICAL"? In 1978 Tamal Krishna said "now that Srila Prabhupada has departed, his worship is no longer practical, you need to worship a living person (like Tamal!)." This is also what Rocana's team says every day. Why has Rocana's team accepted the philosophy of the king kin of all the post 1978 deviations as a guru? When did Srila Prabhupada say that worship of the acharyas is "no longer practical"? Srila Prabhupada says that this Rocana / Gaudiya Matha "living guru" idea is bogus, the guru is eternal.

(*4) CHURCH OF RITVIK? Srila Prabhupada says that the guru is always living ETERNALLY. Rocana is a doubting Thomas, he calls the guru "post-samadhi / posthumous" (citing SDG's team again). The Rocana team says that our idea of worship of Srila Prabhupada is "the posthumous church conception." Yet Srila Prabhupada says that even today people can worship a "departed" guru like Jesus through a priest (ritvik) and this is bona fide. Rocana also told PADA that he agrees with Srila Prabhupada's statment that "Jesus can still take the sins of his followers even though 2,000 years has passed." Hence Rocana says that the ritvik system is bona fide, but then behind ours (and Srila Prabhupada's!) back he changes his mind. Why is Rocana claiming that the worship of the acharyas is some posthumous "church conception" -- when Rocana's "Vatican voting tradition" has voted in criminals and pedophiles as their Popes and messiahs of their religion? At least in our Prabhupadanuga "church" -- we are worshiping a bona fide pure devotee and not odious deviants who appear all the time in Rocana's "tradition"!

(*5) REFUSED CHALLENGE? Rocana asserted in 1978 that Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami was one of eleven ISKCON "appointed diksha gurus," yet Rocana has never established that this was "the order of Srila Prabhupada." Moreover, when we offered a $108,000 reward to Rocana, or anyone else who could prove the claim that "eleven gurus were appointed," Rocana's refused to accept the challenge (and has ever since). Rocana's team says they were never defeated by us, but in 1993 they was unable to come up with even one sentence to defend their appointed / voted in guru process and collect the reward. Actually, no one else ever came forward to accept the reward either.

(*6) CUT AND PASTE. Rocana was also sent Yasodanandana's paper "The Tradition Of Debate," which Rocana claims to have "defeated." Meanwhile Rocana says that his friends are "voted in as diksha gurus" (by the recoronators of homosexual pedophile gurus). Rocana's team claims their child molester messiah's project is "the tradition." No, Rocana has never proved that this is the tradition. Rather the opposite is always true in the tradition, none of the bona fide acharyas are ever voted in, especially by deviants, period. Notice also that Rocana only post parts of Yasodanandana's "Tradition Of Debate" paper on his web site and not the full text, because the full text defeats Rocana, and Rocana's team is famous for concocting, mis-citing and chopping up our statements as well. Cutting and pasting is not the way to win arguments.

(*7) GAUDIYA MATHA? Moreover, Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami established in 1978 that we need to "consult with the Gaudiya Matha's Sridhara Maharaja," a plan which Rocana endorsed. Sridhara Maharaja is the person who concocted the guru voting system which Rocana still endorses in the present year of 2007. Yet Srila Prabhupada says we should NOT consult with the Gaudiya Matha, and he said that many times. Rocana still places the writings of all kinds of Gaudiya Matha "gurus" and their supporters on his web site with no explanation from him that their ideas are apa-siddhanta -- according to Srila Prabhupada. Nor does Rocana explain how any of these folks became "gurus" either? Srila Prabhupada says "amongst my God brothers, no one is qualified to be acharya." If Srila Prabhupada's God brothers are not qualified, how did all these other folks become gurus? Rocana cannot explain anything here, he is baffled.

Worse, Sridhara Maharaja said that Rocana's gurus will "dig their own graves" (and most of the children will get molested thereby) so what who cares? And Tripurari swami supported this process, thus he always gets free advertising from Rocana while we never do. Reason Rocana never explains why he supported letting the ISKCON children "go into the grave" that his policy created: he cannot. Instead, Rocana endorses their bogus voted in guru process, by asserting that people are being voted as gurus -- a process which is condemned by Srila Prabhupada.

Worse, Rocana's other former best friend was Kundali and he was also a fully surrendered Gaudiya Matha follower who constantly criticized Srila Prahbupada's "jiva tattva" (as many Gaudiya Matha "gurus" are doing). So Rocana's team are not only tossing the ISKCON children into the grave, they are tossing Srila Prabhupada into the grave because he is now "posthumous," and now Rocana's team is tossing Srila Prabhuapda's siddhanta into the grave. Yet Rocana's team has never explained how they were ever authorized to toss ISKCON and its children "into the grave"?

Kundali (and Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari/ Gaura Govinda maharajas) all say "we originate in the impersonal brahman," whereas Srila Prabhupada says "we originate in Krishna's lila or sport." Why is Rocana promoting the Gaudiya Matha's statements which contradict Srila Prabhupada's? Srila Prabhupada says beware, many of my God brothers are contaminated by Mayavada philosophy (they think the jiva comes from brahman) and Rocana is simply another example of this contamination by his constant foisting of folks like Kundali's posts and other Gaudiya Matha clones upon us. This is another issue Rocana has never cleared up, why is he promoting the bogus siddhanta of the mayavadis? Rocana is stumped and baffled once again. But what do you expect from people who toss ISKCON and its children into the grave and they are proud of that?

(*8) IMPURE VOTE IN PURE? Without Rocana's proving his first false assumption that SDG is a "living messiah" for ISKCON, Rocana has pushed forward more waves of "diksha gurus" with his assertions that Bhakti Marga and others are among the next wave of new "diksha gurus." Before proving that his first wave of eleven counterfeit gurus was valid, Rocana is now printing hundreds of more counterfeit gurus? Yet Rocana's team never replies, if their first wave of gurus is bogus, as Rocana now admits, then how could these bogus people (the first wave) then -- "vote in" -- the next wave of "the pure"? Srila Prabhupada says that contaminated people have no jurustiction over the acharyas (with their vote system). Rocana has never explained this since 1984 despite our asking him about five hundred times. He is bewildered by Tamal's Gaudiya Matha siddhanta.

(*9) ROCANA ENDORSES SDG's WRITINGS? We all know that the only reason Bhakti Marga is a guru is because he endorses SDG's bogus "position paper" writings and siddhanta since 1978. Why does Rocana claim that a person who endorses SDG's bogus writings is "a diksha guru"? Indeed Bhakti Marga is "voted in" to SDG's "sex novel" guru lineage? Rocana never explains why he thinks that the supporters of sex novel gurus can "vote in another wave of pure devotee diksha gurus." Rocana says he does not support SDG's writing but his gurus -- do so? (Rocana often argues with his own shadow and so he defeats himself).

(*10) KILL GURU? The pattern is that Rocana's first wave of bogus gurus (such as SDG) is crashing on the beach -- fine -- since at least Rocana admits his first wave is bogus, but now Rocana is making wave after wave of more gurus, before explaining how he was authorized to set off the first wave. And now members of his second wave are crashing. Srila Prabhupada sardonically summarizes Rocana's plan -- As soon as it was announced that guru maharaja has departed, I become guru, and then another man comes to become guru, then another, and another, and in this way, I kill my guru and I shall become guru. Why does Rocana support his "kill guru by making false gurus" process?

In other words, Srila Prabhupada sardonically sums up that Rocana's whole "wave after wave of guru" system as "kill guru and become guru." Why does Rocana endorse this "kill guru" process? Rocana says Srila Prabhupada cannot be the guru because he is posthumous -- dead and gone. And to worship a "posthumous guru" is "not in the tradition," i.e. Rocana's traditon is that the vaishnava gurus are all "dead." Rocana's team has also "killed gurus" like Jesus by saying his worship is "bogus church conception."

Srila Prabhupada say this is extremely offensive, to say the guru is dead when he is -- eternal. Notice that Rocana cites his pal Ravindra Swarupa who refers to Srila Prabhupada as "the post mortem guru, and his worship is church idea." Rocana like to use the same terms as his fellow "reformers." Ravindra Swarupa said, "Write a letter to Srila Prabhupada and see if he replies." This is what the atheists say, "Write a letter to God and see if he replies." Why does Rocana's team endorse this atheistic ideology?

(*11) HEADLESS SOCIETY? Srila Prabhupada says, "Make a Governing Body, AND not false gurus." Rocana says, "Wrong, Srila Prabhupada's governing and managing scheme is not in the tradition." How then will ISKCON be managed if "there is no such thing as a system of managing in the tradition"? Is Rocana's tradition -- kill guru and become guru? And if ISKCON is not managed, will this not create a lawless cult where there are beatings, mass child molesting and murder, as has occurs under Rocana's scheme? When did Srila Prabhupada tell Rocana to dismantle the Governing Body process and make wave after wave of false gurus: "kill guru and become guru"? Why has Rocana -- and so many of his contemporaries -- claimed that SDG, Bhakti Marga and many others (over 200 "gurus" have been voted in since 1977) are "diksha gurus"? And why is it that under Rocana's plan, there is wave after wave of scandals and crimes -- and no managing to check these criminal actions?

(*12) RUBBER STAMP GURU? When did Srila Prabhupada tell Rocana to grab a guru rubber stamp and first stamp eleven "gurus", and then make "a guru reform" and rubber stamp hundreds of more gurus? Rocana never tells us? Srila Prabhupada says Rocana's guru by rubber stamp process is: bogus.

(*13) ROCANA JOINS CONSPIRACY? Folks like Rocana and SDG unitedly and boldly declared to the whole ISKCON movement in 1978 that eleven of their leaders had been: appointed (or chosen) as diksha gurus, Srila Prabhupada's successors, the annointed ones, the eleven pure devotees, Vishnupada, and so on. And then their (bogus) claim was supported by: Sridhara Maharaja/ Narayana Maharaja/ Gaura Govinda Maharaja/ Tripurari swami/ ... in addition to cheer leaders like Rocana/ Bhagavata dasa/ Nrsighananda (ITV) and many thousands of others who have unauthorizedly supported this claim. Srila Prabhupada says his leaders might be engaged in "a conspiracy," to control his properties (and they might poison him to take over the property) and Rocana has endorsed this process. By what authority?

(*14) NOT FIT? Srila Prabhupada said that NONE of his followers are even fit for sannyasa in January 1977, how did they become gurus -- just a few months later? Rocana never explains.

(*15) ACTUAL DESIGNATION? Rocana now admits that SDG "never was a guru," so what designation was SDG given? Rocana never tells us. The only recorded designation (as we have documented) is that people like SDG were designated as "Governing Body" and "officiating priests," but Rocana says that is wrong because Srila Prabhupada would be violating "the tradition" if he had only ordered a process of administration. These folks never explain what designation SDG was actually given. And since there is not going to be any administration, that is not in the tradition, then all of the children are subject to getting molested, as occurs under Rocana's team's plan

(*16) APPOINTMENT DISCREDITED? Worse, in 1980 Tamal and Hansadutta declared to the assembled devotees including Jayadvaita, that Srila Prabhupada had never even desginated (appointed) ANY gurus, at Nrsinghananda's hideout in Topanga California. Some of the other eleven have admitted this too, so where is Rocana's claim that there are ANY "diksha gurus" after 1977? And if SDG was never a diksha guru, how were any of SDG's contemporaries diksha gurus?

(*17) LAYERS OF CONCOCTIONS? And then Rocana's false gurus created layers upon layers of other concoctions: zonal gurus, falling down gurus, LSD gurus, machine gun gurus, voted in gurus, re-initiations, and endless reams of concoctions, often supported by the "position papers" penned by SDG. And Rocana suported their enterprise and he still thinks SDG's "guru reform" can rubber stamp Rocana's next wave of "gurus" like Bhakti Marga. Rocana rejects pieces of SDG's papers, while keeping other pieces. In short, Rocana fails to tell us which parts of SDG's papers he rejects and which parts he accepts, since he still accepts that SDG's "guru reform" created gurus such as Bhakti Marga, and that SDG is correct to say he was never designated as an officiator.

(*18) "CAUSE" OF TROUBLES? Rocana's team also fails to explain "the cause" of SDG's "problems," bogus writings and so on: shastra tells us when an unqualified person imitates the pure devotee he WILL eventually become degraded "...If one imitates the maha-bhagavata, evetually he will become degraded" (NOI).

(*19) PILLARS OF ILLUSION? Thus, by Rocana's promoting SDG as a diksha guru in the first place, it now becomes clear that Rocana is a key pillar instrument in creating the current "bogus sex literature" "child molester guru" et al. imbroglio. Similarly, Nrsinghananda (ITV) also says nowadays that SDG was never a guru, and SDG is an embarrassment to ISKCON etc., yet he too was working with Rocana in promoting SDG as a guru -- through his position as ISKCON's "media chief." Credit has to be given here, some of the Sridhara Maharaja/ Narayana Maharaja/ Gaura Govinda Maharaja/ Tripurari swami/ Rocana/ Bhagavata dasa/ Nrsighananda (ITV) camps are now finally agreeing with PADA: that they have been promoting false gurus, although it has taken them sometimes 30 years to figure this out. If they were wrong to support false gurus, what was the actual order then? They never tell us?

(*20) SUCCESSOR NOT MENTIONED. At the same time, almost all of the above folks seem reluctant to admit that they were duped because the actual order is: there is only supposed to be a Governing Body, there is no mention of ANY "successor diksha gurus." Srila Prabhupada says in the Gaudiya Matha no successor was mentioned. Rocana, Kundali, Jayadvaita, SDG, they all say "Forget about working under the banner of worship of Srila Prabhupada, that is the ritvik deviation, you need to go find another guru to worship, a 'living guru,' and if you cannot find one in ISKCON, go to the Gaudiya Matha or other camps." How can any institution be managed if everyone is told to stop worshiping the founder and to worship someone else, anyone except the founder? No wonder Rocana's team thinks we are "the bogus Church. The Church worships one acharya and that maintains the integrity of the institution, whereas with Rocana's team they want a Gaudiya Matha schism system of, as Rocana's shiksha guru Badrinarayna says: "multi gurus."

(*21) SUPPRESSED DOCUMENTS. Rocana's team of bogus gurus also suppressed documents, suppressed devotees who protested, and apparently they suppressed Srila Prabhupada with poison. What does Rocana's this so-called process of "diksha gurus" have to do with "the tradition," this sounds like a criminal take over?

(*22} "LIVING GURU." Worse, Rocana keeps sending people off on a mad search to find "another" diksha guru, any guru other than Srila Prabhupada, while claming to be dedicated to Srila Prabhupada. Let's face it, Rocana vociferously resents to see Srila Prabhupada actually focused as the actual guru, just like his pals Kundali and Kailash Chandra et al. Hence as soon as we say: "Let's worship Srila Prabhupada," Rocana and the above mentioned deviants becomes angry as a hornet's nest. Rocana comes out to beat on us with shoes, "You are the bogus church people, you are not in the tradition, you have to worship our homosexual or criminal priests that I am rubber stamping as messiahs." Where does Srila Prabhupada authorize Rocana's team to rubber stamp gurus? He never does.

(*23) RESULTS? OK Rocana fine, ISKCON ALREADY followed your process. Rocana! Now we see the results of your idea: most of the kids were molested? Maybe Rocana is not the prime cause of this, but he is not far behind the prime movers. Rocana and his ilk are not the Frankenstein monsters, that is good, but they worked in the laboratory that created these Frankenstein monster gurus. And they are still hard at work rubber stamping more and more and more and more of their concocted gurus.

Notice: we still have to accept "a diksha guru" from the midst of the Sridhara Maharaja/ Narayana Maharaja/ Gaura Govinda Maharaja/ Tripurari swami/ Rocana/ Bhagavata dasa/ Nrsighananda (ITV) bogus guru enterprise. Instead of "at least maintaining what we have," i.e. Srila Prabhupada's worship, these fellows have been sending people on a wild goose chase to find another guru, maybe it is SDG, maybe it is Bhakti Marga, maybe it is the Gaudiya Matha, but you can only select from within their homosexual guru's cult, and worship of his divine grace is "the bogus Church idea." Then they wonder why ISKCON is a ghost town? Because only the ghosts worship their "Jesus is posthumous"/ child molester/ guru by votes system. MORE LATER!

"PADA DEBATES ROCANA"!   (UPDATE PT. 2)
Qoted from Pada Newsletter 14. August 2007 ["Second coming" syndrome 8-13]

The Problem With Gaudiya Matha No. 1 (post-1936) and No. 2 (post 1977)/ and Rocana Pt. 2

Perhaps the first problem with the Rocana/ bogus GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ BV and BP Puri/ Gaura Govinda maharaja's "waiting for the next messiah" project is that when everyone is "anticipating the next messiah," it tends to make "the present time" somewhat irrelevant. Thus there is a tendency to ignore the present time's "day to day managing" problems since the main focus is "on the future." For example, with the Christian fundamentalists we see that they are madly pumping out all of the planet's oil supplies, polluting the water and creating global weather problems, starting enormously costly wars that are creating total havoc for millions of people (to get even more oil), but hey, what is the problem since "the messiah is coming soon." It sort of washes their hands of any responsibility for the results of their current actions, just like the false Krishna gurus create so much havoc and seem to have no concern for the victimization they are creating. "The next messiah will fix it."

All of the current problems are magically going to be "resolved in the future," so there is no actual need to resolve any current problems. The following text is from a Christian "waiting for the messiah" web site: In the past Christians took great comfort from the Lord's promise that he would return in glory. We can still find such comfort in this belief today. Billy Graham summarized it well: "Our world is filled with fear, hate, lust, greed, war, and utter despair. Surely the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is the only hope of replacing these depressing features with trust, love, universal peace, and prosperity." Yes, there is no need to be concerned for ISKCON's current problems since some alleged future messiah is going to sort every problem out -- later on. Rocana and company's "only hope" is that some future messiah will fix the enormous mess they are creating -- at the present time.

Srila Prabhupada calls this "post-dated check" syndrome, there is some alleged "future" fix-it-all person who will emerge, at least according to the false prophet promises of the Rocana/ bogus GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ BV and BP Puri/ Gaura Govinda maharaja's "waiting for the next messiah" project. Therefore, no proper managing has been required in "the current time frame" to contain ISKCON's criminality, molesting and so many other problems. The above mentioned folks are not even worried about the current problems, since their "next messiah" is coming down the pike very soon so who cares about the present time's problems? The same phenomena is going on in some Muslim areas. They are bombing their own electrical power and water supply stations because "the next incarnation of Mohammed" is coming soon, so who needs to even worry about the present time? And as you'd guess, the masses end up suffering at the hands of Rocana's team of fanatical "second coming of the messiah" siddhanta advocates.

So this seems to be the first problem we are having, some of the Krishna devotees have sort of merged with the "end of times -- second coming" fanatics, which makes the current situation virtually -- unmanaged. Now a simple problem, for example raising six million dollars for the Turley lawsuit, becomes and overwhelming unmanaged problem, because the whole focus is on some future savior. Very good, except what happens if the "future savior" never appears, or he does not appear in the time frame the speculators concoct? And if "the second coming" is the most important thing, then the current acharya Srila Prabhupada is no longer very important. He is being de-emphasized by the bogus GBC/ Gaudiya Matha pt. 2/ Rocana's deviant's team, as Bhakti Caru swami nicely pointed out recently. While we citizens of ISKCON are all waiting for "the real thing," ISKCON turns into an unmanageable state of chaos. This process is nothing more than the old machinery of the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha. They emphasized the future messiah, and so they could not manage their institution in the present time, so it failed. And then the waves and waves of false messiahs were able to exploit the chaos.

What happens when everyone is focused on the alleged "future savior" is that instituionalized corruption, a self-serving elite, and indeed a systematic institutional devastation can easily take place, while the masses are blinded from seeing that process due to their anticipation of -- the next messiah. This is a sort of sleight of hand trick used by the Rocana/ bogus GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ BV and BP Puri/ Gaura Govinda maharaja's "waiting for the next messiah" project, to allow all sorts of criminality to seep into ISKCON while the masses are mesmerized looking for their next savior. Srila Prabhupada then becomes a sort of temporary stop-gap figurehead while we wait for the real Mc Coy acharya to emerge. While these deviants have the masses perched on a cliff waiting for the next messiah, meanwhile they can exploit and pick the pockets of the masses, and turn the Church upside down and shake every last dime out of the coffers. This "next messiah" is an old trick, used by millennium Christian fanatics for centuries. Getting back to some of the more specific points made by the deviants:

(24) THE TRADITION? When Rocana and his mentors like Sridhara/ Narayana/ Gaura Govinda/ Tripurari/ BV Puri maharaja's say that they have "the only bona fide tradition," what are they saying actually? Their post-1936 Gaudiya Matha "tradition of worship" is: first of all they established the worship of a bisexual gentleman named Ananta Vasudeva. And this created a series of crises situations, schism, violence and murders, which ultimately ruined the entire Gaudiya Matha mission. Srila Prabhupada cites the names of the authors of the bogus guru's process as: Madhava Maharaja, Sridhara Maharaja and Professor Sannyal. These three men are named as concocting the "Ananta Vasudeva guru project." How did you guess, Narayana Maharaja and Bhagavata Maharaja wrote in their "Guru Tattva" booklet that "there was nothing wrong" with their 1936 homosexual guru's project. "Nothing wrong with bogus gurus, nothing wrong with murders of devotee dissenters, no problems here"! In other words: they deviated from "the tradition."

(25) KILLED BY KRISHNA. Srila Prabhupada further explains that the "most pious" person out of the whole 1936 false guru's project was Professor Sannyal. As such "he was killed immediately by Krishna to stop his offense of supporting a false guru, while the others lived on and they simply committed more and more offenses." This apparently makes Jayatirtha "the most pious" out of the Gaudiya Matha's part two (post-1977) guru cabal, since he too was killed early on. Why is "the tradition" of making false gurus wonderful if it is so offensive -- it simply angers Krishna? What is their "tradition"? Krishna wants to kill the supporters of false gurus, so we should make this -- "the tradition"? Why is this process "the tradition"?

(26) GAUDIYA MATHA HAS FAILED. After the downfall of Ananta Vasudeva then: "another (bogus) man comes, then another and another (to be guru)." Srila Prabhupada says "amongst my God brothers no one is qualified to be acharya." Yet they concocted dozens and dozens of false gurus -- "guru by rubber stamp" as Srila Prabhupada sardonically says. And so Srila Prabhupada sums, "The Gaudiya Matha has failed." And what was the fate of those who opposed the worship of Ananta Vasudeva (the PADA-ites) in post-1936? Some of them were beaten severely, some had their skulls cracked with bricks, some had their faces pushed into dog stools, and some were murdered. Sridhara Maharaja was challenged about his bogus guru program and he said, "So what if people are being killed, this is what happened in the Bhagavat Gita."

Sorry, Bhagavat Gita does NOT describe Sridhara Maharaja's homosexual pooja project? Notice: Sridhara Maharaja thinks he is authorized to have people killed when they fail to worship his homosexual messiahs! And is this why we get death threats from Tripurari's clan, Sridhara Maharaja's traditional succession of "death to the devotees." No wonder Narayana Maharaja says that Sridhara Maharaja is his best idea of an acharya, this party all seem to endorse murders of those who fail to worship their homosexual gurus. And then Narayana Maharaja says that the children who are getting molested by his homosexual pedophile gurus are "just getting their karma." In any case, the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha beatings and murders were reported in the Indian news media, which publicly ruined the good name of the Gaudiya Matha. And the same types of "criminal guru's" problems were reported in the Western media after 1977. Why does the above team think that they have such a glorious "tradition" since their "traditional program" is: (a) make deviants and homosexuals into gurus, (b) which results in murdered dissenters, (c) which ruins the good name of the Krishna mission in the media, just as (d) their bogus guru's program did in post-1977? Is this the tradition we want?

(27) CHILDREN OPPRESSED. After 1936, as Vasudeva's son eventually got older he began to realize that Vasudeva's wife was working on the side -- as a prostitute. So when the son asked her, "Mother, why are there so many strange men in the house," the mother killed the child with poison "in order to save Vasudeva's reputation as the acharya of the Gaudiya Matha." Killing children with poison, nice post-1936 "tradition" you guys have got here! Is this why the same team's post-1977 -- part two -- version of their "tradition" molested thousands of ISKCON's children? What kind of "tradition" is this, killing and molesting children? Aren't you folks in "the tradition" of Satan's worship? Nope, you are not advanced enough to worship Satan. PADA editor has met some nice Satanic worship folks in Berkeley, they might eat a bat's wing but they would never poison or molest their children! In short, the Gaudiya Matha's part one (post-1936) and part two (post-1977) folks "tradition" is clearly -- oppressive to women and children.

(28) GURU's SUICIDE. Then, after Ananta Vasudeva realized his own son had to be murdered to cover-up his own problems, he drank the same poison that killed the son -- and he died. How many people have been similarly killed -- as was Vasudeva's son -- to cover-up the post-1977 bogus guru's crimes? Yes, MANY! Their team's post-1936 "acharya" committed suicide, which means actually he had at least some sensitivity and remorse. Thus he is way more advanced than the post-1977 bogus acharyas since they are for the most part: totally shameless. So now we have "the post-1936 tradition" of: bogus guru appointments, another man comes (is voted in), and this created zonal gurus, and fallen gurus, and murders of dissenters, and suicide of the acharya, and more or less this same process evolved after 1977. Oddly the post-1977 pattern was developed using the IDENTICAL "advisors" from the previous -- post-1936 bogus guru's imbroglio, namely Sridhara/ Narayana/ BP and BV Puri and other Gaudiya Matha folks. Suicidal gurus, nice "tradition"?

(29) GURU POISONED? Then again there are rumors that Srila Sarasvati was poisoned in order to take over the 1936 guru post, and the same rumors regarding Srila Prabhupada surfaced later on in ISKCON. How did you guess, Narayana Maharaja glorifies both Tirtha and Tamal, the main suspects in both the 1936 and 1977 poison plots. Some have in fact argued that the post-1936 deviants were already aligned with Tamal's post-1977 "poison cadre" while Srila Prabhupada was being poisoned, and that they were plotting together. It certainly seems odd that the ISKCON bogus gurus were so readily upheld by prominent Gaudiya Matha folks after 1978. Then again Srila Prabhupada says some of the prominent Gauidya Matha people were all along "envious" and "they might kill me." And how did you guess, some of the most prominent members of the Gaudiya Matha said Srila Prabhupada should not use the title of "Srila Prabhupada." Srila Prabhupada then said, "Post a guard by my door in Mayapura, since some of my envious God brothers might have me killed." Very nice tradition here! "He has no right to be called Srila Prabhupada, he might be some sort of swami maharaja, that's it."

(30) CRITICS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA. Note: is this why the BR Sridhara/ BV Narayana/ BV Tripurari/ BV and BP Puri folks still call Srila Prabhupada "swami maharaja," and Narayana Maharaja complains that Srila Prabhupada is "only a devotee of maha Vishnu." They also complained Srila Prabhupada is bogus to make a Governing Body, yes this is "not in the tradition." They said Srila Prabhupada was a "paccha (rotten) grihastha (householder)"; They criticized him for selling distilled medicinal alcohol; Sridhara's folks criticized him for making "mlecchas and hippies" into devotees. They criticized him for having women in the temples, and for making women "brahmana initiated," and so on -- ad infinitum. They never helped him at all while we were in India, and they did not lift one finger as he was slowly and methodically being poisoned to death. It seems the key leaders of Rocana's "tradition" harassed and attacked Srila Prabhupada. And then, after both Srila Saraswati and Srila Prabhupada were gone, these deviants declared that the prime suspects who generated their guru's poison complaint were "Krishna's pure devotees." Is this the Rocana, bogus Gaudiya Matha, Bhagavata Dasa, BV Puri, ISKCON Ahmedabad, Gopal Krishna et al. "tradition" -- we at PADA are so sinful -- for not following them?

(31) MINOR PROBLEMS? We keep hearing Rocana (and some of his Gaudiya Matha "advisors") saying that the main problem in ISKCON is: some of their GBC gurus "had geographical zones." And so Rocana's team always seems to target whole trouble in ISKCON as some slight miscalculation in regards to the manner in which their "eleven gurus" were supposed to function (because at least Rocana's team understands that actual gurus do not have "zones"). Yep child molester and criminal gurus, a minor "zonal guru" problem.

(32) A FEW CONTRADICTIONS. Meanwhile, Rocana's team says that at least one of their eleven gurus, namely SDG, NEVER was a guru at all. SDG was not a zonal guru nor any other category of guru and even Rocana's mentors like Narayana Maharaja agree. What were the eleven appointed as then? Now NOTICE the contradiction: (a) one of their eleven guru was NEVER a guru, but (b) the other ten were (or may have been) gurus. Simultaneously (c) ALL of Rocana's "gurus" are involved in the BOGUS siddhanta of "zonal gurus." Narayana Maharaja has essentially stated the same idea: (a) sometimes NM says the eleven are (or were) gurus, sometimes NM says the eleven were NEVER qualified to be gurus, but he never says what they were appointed as -- or why he was fooled into thinking they are gurus?

Bottom line of both Rocana and Narayana Maharaja is: Srila Prabhupada made a huge mistake concocting the process of unqualified and / or zonal gurus. Wait a minute! It was Rocana and Narayana Maharaja who concocted the whole "unqualified and zonal gurus," not anyone else! Srila Prabhupada said he was only going to appoint zonal priests, this is his actual order. Of course as soon as we say that Srila Prabhupada only appointed zonal "priests," then Rocana and his mentors SDG and Narayana Maharaja say, "What, Srila Prabhupada did not appoint the unqualified as zonal gurus? He must be bogus then! That means Srila Prabhupada is not following the Rocana/ SDG/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ Gaura Govinda/ Tripurari/ BV Puri maharaja's post-1936 Gaudiya Matha 'tradition' of worshiping deviants and homosexuals as Krishna's successors! We cannot have that! Everyone, especially children, needs to worship deviants, otherwise they are 'not in the tradition.'"

And how did you guess, BV Puri Maharaja (Gopal Krishna Maharaja's / ISKCON Ahmedabad's Jasomatinandan Prabhu's mentor) says the same thing, We only follow the tradition, and in our tradition we worship deviants and homosexuals as our acharyas, otherwise, one cannot approach Krishna without worship of our deviants -- tradition. WHAT!!! Rocana's team never understood that "worship of living deviants" is NOT in our TRADITION. And guess what happens when a society worships "living deviants"? Then their bogus guru process orchestrates murders of opponents and engages in so many scandals that it discredits the entire mission (post-1936 India's Gaudiya Matha pt. 1). And so, when Rocana's team re-established their pooja of deviants's plan (Gaudiya Matha pt. 2 / post-1977 ISKCON), then most of the children in ISKCON were molested under their "buggery pooja." And these fellows proudly and vociferously protected "the tradition" -- of homosexual pooja? Poisoned and molested children? Horrible media publicity. Endless lawsuits. Good tradition they got here pilgrims!

(33) APPOINTED GURUS: UNFOUNDED. And the "only trouble" is that the eleven slightly miscalculated how a guru functions. Sorry, it seems that there is a much bigger problem here than "a slight misunderstanding of the word zonal being applied to a guru." The problem is: that none of the eleven were ever appointed or designated as "diksha gurus." This has been a problem all along with many of the ISKCON "moderates." While PADA has been saying that there is a major deviation with this bogus guru appointment going on, the Rocana types think there is only some minor nomenclature error -- and so "the moderates" have merely assumed that the eleven are diksha gurus. We merely need to repair (reform) their deviations. How did you guess, Narayana and BV Puri Maharajas are the creators of "the 1984 guru reform."

And because there is only a minor error here, it is easy to reform / repair the "appointed" gurus and fix their broken down humpty dumpty guru project. We need to "wait and see" while Ramesvara, Jayatirtha, Hansadutta, Tamal -- "reform" -- and this was Sridhara Maharaja's plan. So whenever the bogus Gaudiya Matha's post-1977 (part two) homosexual pedophile guru lineage needed help, they always got help from the leaders of bogus Gaudiya Matha's (post-1936) part one.And this guru reform can be done easily: all "the reformers" have to do is just get their gurus to change their designations, and then presto bingo, all will be well.

Krishna Kanta Desai (IRM) has had the same exact problem, he thinks he is going to "reform" bad gurus and turn them into good gurus. No one seems to be able to figure out that if ACTUAL gurus never claim to have zones, and the eleven have been claiming to have zones, then that means ALL of them are deviants all along and not gurus? If a person is speaking some nonsense "gurus have zones," then he is not a guru himself? So this is the first trouble we are having with many "moderates" in the current ISKCON scene, they assumed that "the eleven" are, were or could have been gurus, meanwhile, admitting that their gurus are speaking bogus siddhanta.

Yet this is the first thing we need to know about the guru, he never speaks any bogus siddhanta. Rocana thinks that the guru speak bogus siddhanta, and then Rocana is going to repair and reform the guru from speaking bogus siddhanta. Meanwhile, Rocana forgot that none of the previous gurus ever spoke bogus siddhanta? And it is an offense to claim that gurus are speaking bogus siddhanta, and they need reforming and so on. Here is more on this topic:

Desa-kala-patra BY: ROCANA DASA

Aug 11, CANADA (SUN) — Desa-kala-patra (Time, Place and Circumstance).

This is in response to Praghosa dasa's article of this day, entitled "With Respect for the Sake of Discussion". According to Praghosa dasa, it's incorrect for me to say that the Sampradaya Acarya has a duty to bring the siddhanta of the Sampradaya into focus according to time, place and circumstance. Praghosa claims that the Sampradaya Acarya, as he understands him, is simply fulfilling the order of Krsna, and that perhaps Krsna is not requesting the Sampradaya Acarya to present our philosophy according to desa-kalpa-patra.

(34) DESA-KALA-PATRA DENIED. PADA: Good point. Whenever Srila Sarasvati or Srila Prabhupada "adjust the siddhanta" (under the order of Krishna) to make "priests" -- when no qualified gurus are present, then Rocana's team says: Srila Prabhupada and Krishna have no idea what they are doing! Why isn't Krishna following the Rocana/ SDG/ Sridhara/ Narayan/ Garua Govinda/ BV Puri's maharaja's team's "tradition of homosexual gurus"? The Gaudiya Matha part one and part two teams are not happy to heed the dictation of God. Rocana defeats himself here, he says Srila Prabhupada can make a ritvik system, this is an adjustment, but he cannot do so without "dictation from Rocana's Gaudiya Matha part one and part two homosexual guru lineage." Meanwhile Rocana says we need to now search for the next "living guru," which is exactly what his guru SDG and the Gaudiya Matha part one and two are saying. Srila Prabhupada never mentions that we should seek out another guru after he departs. The deviants eliminated the actual order and concocted a non-existent order.]

[** RD: Whether we're referring to the Sampradaya Acarya or a bona fide representative of that Sampradaya Acarya in disciplic succession, the duty of all gurus is to instruct their disciples and followers in both the siddhanta and the practical application or the process. The difference between a Sampradaya Acarya and a sadhana-bhakta guru is that the Sampradaya Acaryas are nitya-siddha, and on this point Praghosa and I apparently both agree.]

(35) SDG ALWAYS EMERGING. PADA: OOOP! Notice that Rocana cites his actual guru Satsvarupa dasa goswami once again, with SDG's concoted new term: "the sadhana (neophyte) bhakta guru." This is exactly like Satsvarupa's "regular (sadhaka) gurus" which he interprets as neophyte gurus "regulated by sadhana." OK, no surprise that Rocana is citing as his authority Mr. SDG. No, the neophytes are not (diksha) gurus, they are -- at best -- representatives of the guru (aka preachers or priests). There is no mention in "the tradition" of SDG's and Rocana's "neophyte gurus." There is the nitya siddha guru (diksha) and then there are the neophytes, the preachers, the representatives (shiksha). Technically this is called (a) the parisad guru (associate of Krishna) and (b) the neophytes (sadhakas). We cannot telescope these levels or titles. The student worships the master, he is not the master himself! Where does Srila Prabhupada discuss "the sadhaka guru." Rocana never tells us where his guru SDG found this concocted term? This is what happened in Gaudiya Matha part one, "anyone who chants is a guru." No, he is a neophyte.

The only good news is that at least Rocana and his mentor SDG says their "gurus" must perform some basic sadhana chanting, which is good except their Gaudiya Matha part one and part two "sadhaka gurus" are quite often found to be "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children," drinking Vodka, smoking pot, watching porno and etc.? Where does Srila Prabhupada mention that after he departs: neophyte sadhakas will be worshipped as his successor gurus? This is all concoction, actually Gaudiya Matha part two. Rocana also never explains, when his "sadhana guru" fails to perform the basic sadhana, how can we reign in "the guru"? Don't we see people getting beaten or murdered if they "challenge the (Rocana/ SDG/ Gaudiya Matha) guru"? Nice tradition here, Rocana's Gaudiya Matha plan gets innocent devotees molested, poisoned and killed. "This is the tradition," ... of Al Capone? A layman who is going to the Church to pray, the sadhaka, and so he should be worshiped as if he is Jesus? And those who object, beat and kill them. Nice tradition there Rocana!]

[** RD: Insofar as the Sampradaya Acarya is acting purely in accordance with the desires of the Lord, he is always bringing forward the siddhanta according to time, place and circumstance. This is so because Krsna Himself is omniscient. Being aware of all things at all times, Krsna's desires are themselves always according to time, place and circumstance. Consequently, the Sampradaya Acaryas always convey the Absolute Truth perfectly and according to the desires of the Lord. In this context, whether one chooses to use the word "duty" or "pure devotion" is a rhetorical matter. The fact remains the same.]

(36) KRISHNA'S ORDERS CONFUTED. PADA: Fine, except as soon as Krishna and the sampradaya acharya gives an order according to time, place and circumstances, "make priests and not gurus," then Rocana says Krishna is bogus for "not following Rocana's Gaudiya Matha part two homosexual guru tradition." Rocana and Professor Sannyal are Krishna's new boss! You folks are really lucky out there, it is not easy to find the boss of God Almighty!]

[** RD: To conclude that any one of our Sampradaya Acaryas, i.e., those on the List of 32, didn't advent themselves in order to show, according to time, place and circumstance, the essence of our philosophy, is incorrect. Praghosa dasa alludes to the fact that some of the Acaryas on the list, most notably Jagannatha das Babaji or Gaura Kishore das Babaji, didn't write anything down. Of course, in the statement that he quoted, I don't mention writing. I only say that they "made relevant" the siddhanta.

Every individual within our Sampradaya has to understand in the context of their time, place and circumstance, what these Sampradaya Acaryas were contributing. As Srila Prabhupada is the most recent manifestation of the eternal Sampradaya, there is no question that he undoubtedly did these things. In other words he, more than anyone during or since his manifest lila, brought everything into time place and circumstance.]

(37) HATCHET JOB. And now that Srila Prabhupada "is not in his manifest lila," go find another guru even if he is a sloppy sadhaka, or a person certified by the pedophile lineage like Bhakti Marga. Rocana never explains why he can cut and paste parts of the sampradaya acharya's teachings that he does not like. Srila Prabhupada says, "Do not got to the Gaudiya Matha and create false gurus," Rocana snips that part off and he says, "Who needs Srila Prabhupada's idea when we can have nice homosexual guru programs -- like Gaudiya Matha part one and two, Bhakti Marga's lineage? And let us go to the Gaudiya Matha for our jiva tattva as well, and follow Kundali's, BV Puri Maharaja's, Gaura Govinda Maharaja's, ooops, Gaudiya Matha's ditto heads"! Ummm, like SDG is doing! Rocana wears his SDG hat, then his ritvik hat, then, oh never mind! The Gaudiya Matha says their guru is posthumous, Rocana says his guru is posthumous, SDG says his guru is posthumous, where does Srila Prabhupada say that the guru is posthumous? No, Srila Prabhupada says it is an offense to say the guru is posthumous. Hatchet job!]

[** RD: The duty of all devotees since time immemorial is to preach Krsna consciousness -- either to pass it on in the written word, via sound vibration, or by their actions. This is the message we get from Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita. Srila Prabhupada, the Sampradaya Acarya, is non-different than the Bhagavad-gita or Arjuna in this regard.]

(38) DEFIES GITA. PADA: Goody. So when Srila Prabhupada says "they will be ritviks and not gurus," that is the same as Rocana's team defying the Bhagwat Gita. Goody! We agree, Rocana's Gaudiya Matha part two homosexual "guru tradition" is a direct challenge to the Gita. Well said! Of course Rocana's Gaudiya Matha pals say "Srila Prabhupada's purports are not shastra." Yep, when someone forgets to glorify their buggery pooja, this is not shastra! In Rocana's tradition, the words of the pure devotee "are not shastra." Is not the shastra -- the words of the pure devotee?]

[** RD: Insofar as the request has been given to us by the Supreme Lord that we pass this philosophy that we have assimilated and realized on to others in the mood of compassion and concern for their eternal well being, to that degree it is every devotee's duty to preach according to time, place and circumstance. Some, like the Sampradaya Acaryas, can do it in a grand way, and for obvious reasons - they are completely pure and inconceivably empowered. But whether it's me, Praghosa dasa or any followers of the Sampradaya Acarya, we also have the same duty. Not to interpret, but simply to understand who we're preaching to and what sort of circumstances the person we're preaching to is in, so that we can present the teachings in such a way as they will understand.]

(39) MORE CONTRADICTIONS. PADA: And this is why nobody understands what Rocana is preaching: at all? Rocana says the acharyas are free to preach according to time and place, but if they violate Rocana's pals like the Kundali's "post-1936 Gaudiya Matha's tradition of homosexual and criminal gurus," then Rocana says he can toss out the acharya's words? What ever happened to Rocana's previous shiksha guru Kundali anyway? Kundali seems to have realized that his pounding the drum for the worship of deviants was an aparadha. Rocana complained not long ago that "the GBC does not allow their God brothers to be gurus and sannyasis." Rocana, Srila Prabhupada said that your sannyasas are not qualified, that system is not working. Now you want to concoct more of them? And you want to concoct that the persons not fit for sannyasa are gurus? And if a person is truly a bona fide guru, why does he even need the rubber stamp of the ISKCON bogus gurus? Rocana and his Gaudiya Matha part two pals never explain anything!]

[** RD: That's really the essence of what time, place and circumstance means. In the case of the Sampradaya Acaryas, they set the absolute standard. We, as conditioned souls but still sincere preachers, must strive to meet that standard in our attempts to explain this philosophy and process to inquiring persons. Praghosa dasa would make his position more clear if he would provide us with a paper written by him that is the equivalent of, or a comparison to, my Sampradaya Acarya paper, wherein he explains his conception of Srila Prabhupada in the way that I have presented mine. If he did that, then we would be able to make a more exacting comparison. I think that would be far more helpful than simply focusing in on a few lines that I've written, that he thinks don't completely fit his conception. And in particular, I would ask that he tell us specifically how he understands Srila Prabhupada in comparison to his godbrothers, the previous Acaryas, the ISKCON institution, the regular gurus, etc.]

(40) ROCANA CITES Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami (SDG). PADA: Here we go again, it is SDG's "regular (sadhaka) gurus" again. Rocana quacks like an SDG duck, walks like an SDG duck, talks like and SDG duck, thinks like an SDG duck, ooops! Is he an SDG duckling? No, the regulated (sadhaka) is not the guru, he is a priest at best! Rocana, time to take off your SDG hat! Where does Srila Prabhupada discuss the process of "regular gurus" i.e. a person who is "regulated by chanting his rounds" -- he is not a guru! Notice, you are saying what the bogus Gaudiya Matha says, if a person "chants his rounds" then he is a (sadhaka) guru. Rocana is part of the envious God brother's society, Gaudiya Matha part one. No, a person who simply "chants his rounds" is a sadhaka, period, not a sadhaka guru. You are citing the envous God brothers and SDG again, they are the ones who telescoped sadhaka and guru after 1936. Why does Rocana love "the envious God brother's" apa-siddhanta association?]

[ ** RD: ... "I'm all in! I want to give it my best shot! This mantra is wonderful and I never want other than the association of the devotees! I want to be initiated and fully commit - just like you did". The key aspect of this is, "I want to be initiated." In my particular situation, this is not a hypothetical scenario at all. For quite a number of years now, since my departure from 'within' the ISKCON institution, I have instructed newcomers to Krsna consciousness. Those who have become devotees are doing quite nicely in Krsna consciousness as far as I can see.

(41) PARTIAL CREDIT TO ROCANA: PADA: This is partially good, you are instructing people that their sampradaya guru is Srila Prabhupada, but then you and your Gaudiya Matha pals say Srila Prabhupada has no potency to give divyam jnanam which destroys sins (diksha). Rather, we need your Bhakti Marga's official "regulated" SDG lineage rubber stamp, ... walks like an SDG duck, talks like an SDG duck, etc. We need a nice "regular" plain old vanilla "regulated" guru, you know, voted in by your "regular" plain old vanilla pedophiles, very "regulated" that Rocana! Rocana, how come you cannot "regulate" whether your gurus are having illicit sex with men, women and /or children, what to speak of any other regulations? How are you "regulating" your gurus, at all? Rather we need a system of regulation for the neophytes, the sadhakas. The pure devotees do not require your committee's regulation. Yet even with your wonderful guru regulating committee, your gurus are clearly out of control mavericks. This is what happened in your previous Gaudiya Matha pt. 1., Sridhara Maharaja was unable to control his Frankenstein Ananta Vasudeva. Rocana your GBC committee is meant to control the other sadhakas, not the guru! Why does Rocana love Sridhara Maharaja's homosexual (sadhaka?) guru lineage project so much?]

[ **RD: ...aspire" for this diksa or that diksa guru.]

(42) ASPIRE FOR WHOM? PADA: You mean we need the homosexual "diksha guru" lineages like Rocana's pals SDG, Bhakti Marga and BV Puri are always preaching about? We need to aspire for the "second coming messiah," Rocana's false promise? We neeed the bogus sadhaka guru who is not even a bona fide sadhaka -- guru lineage, as occured in your Gaudiya Matha pt. 1 already after 1936? Jayadvaita says that when a person chants -- he is a sadhaka guru, and this is SDG's main pal, so why does Rocana always cite SDG, Jayadvaita, and the envious God brothers of the Gaudiya Matha as his authorities? The layman is a sadhaka, great, that means he is not worshiped like the guru, the Vishnupada or Jesus. How come Rocana and his Gaudiya Matha pals cannot ever figure this out? Well let's say we worship Jesus, oh oh, big deviation, how terrible, the Church of Ritviks, you mean we are not worshiping Rocana's Gaudiya Matha pt 1 and part 2 homosexual's messiah's club members? Rocana has insulted the process of diksha so much so it has become a laughingstock, just as his Gaudiya Matha mentors did after 1936. Meanwhile, they cast their smokesceen, but the next messiah is coming shortly, look!, nothing up my sleeve, he is in my magic chest, presto bingo boingo, he will be here soon!]

[** RD: Because they have a clear understanding of what it means to be initiated, in other words being connected to the Sampradaya, and they don't carry the misconception that you have to do it through some institutional diksa lineage.]

(43) ROCANA CITES RITVIKS: PADA: Oh oh, now Rocana is putting on his PADA and ritvik hat. Now he says that "being connected" to Srila Prabhupada through ISKCON is the actual initiation, not by the institutional initiation that Rocana simultaneously gives us through his Gaudiya Matha (part two) pals like Bhakti Marga, Rocana's other hat. Does Rocana know which hat he is wearing from moment to moment? Jeepers, I am at the moment an SDG groupie, but just a minute ago I was citing PADA. The good news is that at least some of the time even some of Rocana's Gaudiya Matha pals like Narayana are saying, oh yes swami maharaja is the current sampradaya acharya. That is because we have exposed their molester beejer guru process so badly, we are forcing them to say that!]

[** RD: They understand that initiation begins with following and surrendering to the most recent pure representative of the disciplic succession. According to their time, place and circumstance, that's Srila Prabhupada, the most recent Sampradaya Acarya.]

[PADA: Good. Rocana is putting on his ritvik hat again! Yes, you have to accept the previous link in the chain, this is something PADA has promoted all along. Now Rocana joins PADA, at least for the moment, until he remembers he is SDG's twin brother!]

[** RD: They understand that Caitya Guru is in their heart, and that he has already led them to a Sampradaya Acarya, and to one or more siksa gurus. As such, they know that Caitya Guru will also, in due course, fulfill their desires for an eternal diksa guru when the circumstances are ripe for them.]

(44) THE CHURCH OF THE NEXT MESSIAH. PADA: Srila Prabhupada never discussed that another acharya was going to arrive anytime soon, or that people should pray for one to emerge? This is another Rocana / SDG concotion. "Srila Prabhupada is not the guru, you have to wait for Rocana to declare that there is another guru." Ooops, this is what SDG does! Now Rocana has put on his SDG hat -- again? Srila Prabhupada never discussed this alleged "soon to appear" diksha guru? The Gaudiya Matha does ....! Where does Srila Prabhupada say that there is going to be another diksha guru coming soon, the second coming -- or anytime at all? Or that we should anticipate that one is going to appear? Rocana is in the Church of "Jesus Will Return." Good job, people are all waiting for "Jesus to return" so they can neglect serving him now -- and fleece the masses! Why is Rocana citing the Protestants now? Srila Prabhupada says, "I will never die," so that should be emphasized. There may or may not be another pure devotee appearing, either soon or at all, that is all up to Krishna, this is not Rocana's job.]

[** RD: But they're not in great anxiety about it, and they don't believe that getting diksa as fast as possible is an absolute requirement, even before they understand the philosophy enough to be able to discern who is and is not a bona fide diksa guru. Nor are they going to be pushed by some institutional circumstance or peer pressure to be committed to the institution, or committed to a so-called diksa guru who they might see occasionally throughout their whole lifetime, and who never trains them.]

[PADA: Now Rocana is wearing his ritvik hat. Yes, the bogus diksha gurus of ISKCON are not even training people, they are off vacationing in the Bahamas, to be bothered. Good job Rocana! You are getting closer to ritviks!]

[** RD: This is what I recommended to these devotees, these siksa disciples of mine. And from what I can see, it's working very well. They have a strong attachment to Srila Prabhupada, Krsna and the Holy Name. They're joyful in their Krsna consciousness, and they don't feel like they're losing out because the institution doesn't recognize them as "bona fide" disciples of ISKCON gurus.]

[PADA: That means they are disciples of Srila Prabhupada, oh Rocana is showing his ritvik-ness more and more now!]

** RD: Taking this position does not preclude devotees from aspiring for diksa initiation one day, when the time is right for them and the action is truly informed and inspired by Caitya Guru. This, Praghosa dasa, is my answer to the practical application of diksa initiation within the context of my position on the Sampradaya Acarya.

[PADA: Srika Prabhupada says that his books do not give divyam jnanam, diksha? Now Rocana is wearing his SDG hat again. I hope he is taking his meds!]

[** RD: Honestly, I've found that when I present the Sampradaya Acarya approach to newcomers, they just immediately see the common sense practicality of what I'm saying. In many cases having already seen enough of the problems rampant in ISKCON, they have no problem adopting and adapting to the Sampradaya Acarya approach. Obviously in this article I can't repeat all the things I've already written or explained elsewhere. I do feel, however, that even the first draft of my Sampradaya Acarya paper sets down the practical approach to diksa that I've explained above. Perhaps Praghosa dasa will now re-read that paper and understand it in a different light. ]

[PADA: Well yes, your sampradaya acharya idea is our ritvik idea, we said this in 1978, he is the acharya, good idea!]

[** RD: Many people think that we simply 'lucked out' in having Srila Prabhupada as our diksa guru, but among even those who were lucky, many of them are not following Srila Prabhupada now, regardless of the causeless mercy that was bestowed on them. Frankly, I don't distinguish between Srila Prabhupada disciples and those who came after Srila Prabhupada and who are sincerely following him. The only difference is that we 'originals' don't have to deal with the diksa issue.]

(45) SRILA PRABHUPADA: NOT CLEAR? PADA: Srila Prabhupada "did not have the time to deal with the diksha issue." Ooops, Rocana put on his SDG hat again! No wonder Rocana does not know what the diksha guru is, so he ends up citing Gaudiya Matha part two, he says he never took the time to study the issue!]

** RD: Of course, now we're seemingly nitpicking in terms of whether or not the Sampradaya Acarya is obliged to perform a "duty", or Praghosa's idea that my position doesn't have any practical application. One of the things we differ on is the fact that Praghosa has this idea that ISKCON is non-different than Srila Prabhupada. I don't share that perception of the institution. At the time Srila Prabhupada performed his final preaching pastimes ISKCON was a vehicle that he used, as were all his disciples. But Srila Prabhupada himself is supreme in that regard ... supreme above and beyond ISKCON. What is non-different than Srila Prabhupada is his writings, his teachings. And by taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada's direct instructions, we can all encourage ourselves and each other.

[PADA: OK, so if we take shelter of Srila Prabhupada, we are accpeting his divyam jnanam, that is diksha. That is the ritvik idea. Why nitpick? Good point Rocana. thanks pd]

please also see:

ROCANA WRITES WRONGS
Deconstructing Rocana by PADA
Rocana's Masquerade The Sampradaya Sun Exposé
Rocana's Posthumous Church - The Church Of Ritvik
ROCANA says: Srila Prabhupada does not speak clearly, only Rocana does?
Reply to Rocana dasa's speculation about chanting mantras and preaching in South India

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!