Questions and Answers - 2
with Tripurari Swami (Tom Beaudry)

This is an ongoing investigation into the Tripurari cult and his mentor Sridhara Swami.
For more information please call: [ph. 707-477-4102. Thanks pd]

Letter from Tripurari Swami to PADA
Saturday, March 17, 2012 - From Tripurari Swami to Puranjana

Dear Puranjana,

Although I do not philosophically agree with the ritvikism, I agree with the fact that ritviks have the civil right to practice ritvikism. Furthermore, practicing ritivikism in itself does not make one an aparadhi, but publicizing false and defamatory statements about Vaishnavas (including myself) does. If anything I have ever said has caused threats against you, I apologize. I do not want to continue personal attacks against each other, but instead want to move forward in a away that allows us to practice and, when need be, defend our respective philosophies in a non-threatening manner. If I have published anything that threatens your safety, please let me know and I will be happy to address it.

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[PADA: Thanks very much prabhu. Yes, all our camps of vaishnavas should all be able to preach our respective ideas without feeling coerced or threatened. And we should develop more respect amongst all the various vaishnava groups since its very hard to convince the regular mundane citizens we have the better idea, if we are ourselves unable to get along. This in-fighting hurts the preaching of all our camps simultaneously. As the devotees and brothers are fighting, the conditioned souls are not being helped, this was the lamentation of Srila Prabhupada all the time, he was worried that the preaching work might be stopped due to infighting among his followers. He said that all the time, this was his greatest anxiety.

Anyway, hopefully we can all enter a new era of more productive relationships where we are using our valuable time to preach to the conditioned souls and not so much preaching against one another. I feel a lot of relief after getting your letter and hope we can work more together on preaching the message of Lord Gauranga rather than wasting time fighting between the brothers. So I welcome your letter and hereby offer to reciprocate by helping resolve issues that are coming from our camp that you think we need to address. Anyway thanks again for the offer to help resolve things cooperatively, this is a great leap of forward progress. If there is any cause you feel needs to be addressed, you can also call me at 707-477-4102. your eternal servant, puranjana dasa]

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Questions to Tripurari swami and the Sridhara Maharaja folks pt.1

1) ORIGNAL AUTHORTY by Sridhara Maharaja TO PROMOTE FALSE GURUS?
2) FOLLOWERS OF SRILA PRABHUPDA SUPERIOR TO FOLLOWERS OF FALSE GURUS.
3) IS SRILA PRABHUPADA A CONDITIONED SOUL?
4) NOT FIT FOR SANNYASA:

Thanks very much for offering to moderate a discussion between me and Tripurari swami Alberto prabhu. These questions have never been answered 35 years and are at the root of all the "troubles" we have had. I think we should perhaps call this: Tripurari swami v Puranjana Q and A. Without further ado, here are the (first set of) questions:

1) Dear Tripurari swami. Thanks for your writing us in an attempt to resolve our mutual negative issues against one another. I'd like to start by saying, I do appreciate that you feel that we have not been fair with you, and I'd like to rectify that since we probably have not been fair. At the same time, I hope you can appreciate we feel that your program has also not been fair with us.

In an attempt to resolve some of these issue between us, we are going to write some questions to you and allow you to respond however you like, in as much detail as you like, and taking as much time as you like. We will eventually print your final replies with no editing. Its our attempt to present some of our views and have you try to see some of our complaints from perhaps a new angle. Your response will allow us to see things more from your angle. Hopefully this will help us both appreciate each others respective positions.   

ORIGNAL AUTHORTY by Sridhara Maharaja TO PROMOTE FALSE GURUS?

First of all, the followers of Sridhara Maharaja (as well as the GBC and Narayana et al.) keep saying for the past 35 years that "the ritvik idea is bogus." The "ritvik idea" can be summed up thus: Some of us follwers of Srila Prabhupada are chosing NOT to act as his "guru successors," rather we want to act as his representatives, agents or proxies -- which might also be called "layman preachers." At best, we might come up to the standard of being a brahmana priest, which in sanskrit is called "a ritvik."

Of course Tamal is the person who branded us as "the ritviks." In the early 1980s we originally called ourselves "the Prabhupadanugas" and would appreciate if you would use the title we used for ourselves and not the title Tamal used for our group. He is not our leader or representative, and the title he used for us is not the title we wanted or used originally.

Anyway, if some of us disciples and followers of Srila Prabhupada are choosing to act as his agents, at best priests, what is the harm of that? The GBC in 1979 offered to make me their guru of Ireland, I did not accept that role because I did not think either myself nor the 11 "gurus" were qualified to do so. And time has shown that I was factually correct, most of my "guru" God brothers have not only proven unqualified for that role, their dramatic fall-downs have made ISKCON into a public media scandal, and the GBC leaders officially have now declared the entire ISKCON society as fiscally bankrupt. And in case you have not noticed there has been all kinds of negative public media about these gurus.

This is the result of avoiding Srila Prabhupada's constant warnings about his followers artificially posing as gurus, and avoiding my reminding these leaders about this false guru issue after 1977 as well. And Sridhara maharaja backed the false gurus instead of us, to our peril. So it seems he aided and abetted the downfall of ISKCON, as he similarly aided and abetted the downfall of the Gaudiya Matha by promoting such false gurus. Now this poses the question, was it "fair" for Sridhara Maharaja to back the GBC's 11 gurus and for him to say "none (of us) should protest"? Sridhara's policy of suppressing us dissenters made me a "marked man" in ISKCON and caused my being excommunicated in 1979 and so forth. Was it fair for Sridhara Maharaja to back the people who were creating this mass exodus, and these "gurus" were saying things like (as Jayatirtha told me in 1979) "watch your back" (you could be treated with violence)?

And if we cannot act as our own guru's layman representatives, and we do not wish to act as his successors, what are we supposed to do intead? It seems we are being forced into a corner by the Sridhara Maharaja -- GBC -- Narayana Maharaja allied policy and ideology, they all say our idea of operating as layman agents is wrong (ritvik idea). And worse, that we are not allowed to protest the worship of our God brothers as gurus since "none should protest." So the result of this policy is: thousands of us were and still are being forced away from ISKCON, which is what has happened and still is occuring. Right now for example the GBC is spending $12 million dollars suing us to drive even more of us out. Why was this policy inaugurated by Sridhara Maharaja in the first place?

I was essentially excommunicated in 1979, as were thousands of my other brothers and sisters. This is also what Sridhara maharaja orchestrated after 1936 in India, he made a false guru project there, and the people who rejected his false guru's project were banned, beaten and driven out, some dissenters were killed, and the temples became empty. Why is this considered as the bona fide path?

In ISKCON the results of producing these narrow options are the same as what Sridhara Maharaja created after 1936, most devotees simply quit the Krishna religion altogether just like most of the Gaudiya Matha temples became empty shells. At this point, most of my rank and file "layman" God brothers have left the society altogether, and they are never coming back because (a) they are being checked from acting as preachers or representatives of Srila Prabhupada (the ritvik idea), and (b) they do not want to pose as successors and, (c) nor do they want to support the GBC's unauthorized guru successors project. They are thus personna non grata. Hence the temples are empty, due to the same policy of making false gurus that Sridhara introduced in 1936 and which also emptied out their temples.

Me and these thousands of my brothers and sisters thus have no standing in the society, and so all of us are basically being forced to leave. As was I. Why is this mass exodus process after 1936 and 1978 authorized? Is this what Krishna wants, no samkirtana, no poojaris, no one to clean the temple, no one to sew for the deity etc.? I do not think that is what He wanted? This is why Srila Prabhupada says, Sridhara Maharaja acted witout authority, he has no authority to create this mass exodus of the citizens of the Gaudiya Matha (and now: ISKCON) by his policy of promoting false gurus.

Is that also what Srila Prabhupada wanted, to force most of the devotees out, and to have them stop acting as preachers, giving them the only options of being a successor or promoting another (perhaps deviant) God brother as a successor, and thus force them to leave and empty out the temples of manpower and bankrupt the society (as has occured)? Why shouldn't we worship our guru if we choose to? And why shouldn't our children worship Srila Prabhupada if they choose to?

And why should not our children's children worship him if they desire to? Why the vociferous opposition? And what is the actual plan then? If we are not supposed to worship Srila Prabhupada and promote same, what program are we supposed to promote instead? Why is worship of my guru a deviation, in his own society? And never mind for a moment the GBC, Sridhara Maharaja or anyone else, if I am your God brother why should you assist those who are having me forcibly ejected from my master's house and trying to force me to promote the worship someone else, i.e. those who are usually deviants? And why join these hi-jackers by calling me an offender and basically helping them drive me out of my father's house? By what authority are all of you orchestrating driving me out of my master's house? And in the process, by demonizing our idea of continued worship of our master, this is making our lives similar to an animal being hunted as "an offender." Why is our process not authorized and this process is authorized?   

2) FOLLOWERS OF SRILA PRABHUPDA SUPERIOR TO FOLLOWERS OF FALSE GURUS.

Most of the ritviks (i.e. Prabhupadanugas) for example from the Bangalore program, have a much higher spiritual standard than most of the over 100 gurus promoted by the GBC and apparently, some of the bogus messiahs of the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha. Indeed Jayadvaita swami wrote a paper a few years back admitting that many of the GBC's gurus have been falling into -- illicit sex with men, women and children. Actually most of the GBC's post-1978 gurus are now gone, since they have been falling into some sort of odious scandals such as -- illicit sex, drugs, criminal deviations etc.

Meanwhile, most of our even newer devotees in the Prabhupadanuga group do not have any of these problems such as illicit sex with men, women and children. Indeed, our newer devotees in Bangalore and other programs have no known problems of illicit sex with men, women and children, and we think this is since -- they worship an actual paramahamsa Srila Prabhupada. Our new devotees in Sunnyvale are also not experiencing these extreme fall down troubles either, so why should they worship the Sridhara process which tends to have people devolve to a lower standard, a standard that is way less advanced than our folks are?

Why would we want to take the lesser advanced path? Our path is freeing people from illicit sex with men, women and children etc, while the GBC's guru's seem to be having an epidemic of such failures. Why should we take the path that Sridhara maharaja helped launch in 1978, which leads to mostly failures, since most of the GBC gurus have fallen? Our devotees are making good progress by dint of worship of the bona fide acharya, whereas the failures among these gurus is something like an epidemic? Why is our program the deviation, when the failure is mainly in the guru camp that Sridhara maharaja promoted? Our failure rate is way below their failure rate, why should we choose the path of mostly failures? And in sum, who is right? (A) Was Sridhara Maharaja right to promote these false gurus, leading to the whole illicit sex with men, women and children bogus messiah's debacle, or (B) were we right to promote Srila Prabhupada instead, resulting in our producing first class brahmana types of devotees?

3) IS SRILA PRABHUPADA A CONDITIONED SOUL?

The next issue is: if Srila Prabhupada had "appointed" 11 conditioned souls to be his and Krishna's guru successors, that would make him a conditioned soul himself -- for making such a serious mistake. The idea that he had appointed the 11 as successors is what we called "the big lie" which has been repeated in the media in thousands of books, newspapers articles, TV expose shows etc. Of course this is the same problem Sridhara Maharaja created in 1936, he implied that Ananta Vasudeva was the appointed guru, and this made it look like Srila Saraswati had no discrimination -- so he too had appointed the wrong person as his successor.

Incidently, Tamal said in December of 1980 there is no evidence on tape or in writing that these 11 gurus had been appointed. BV Puri agreed and he said that Srila Prabhupada PERSONALLY had told him there are only going to be ritviks (this is on a video which we have posted to our blog). Ramesvara resigned in June 1980 saying the leaders did not have the qualifications to be guru. Hansadutta has admitted that there was no guru appointment and so on, yet we see no clarification from the Sridhara Maharaja camp that there had been no guru appointment and the 11 had only been named as priests, actually at best priests?

And despite seeing these 11 kept falling into troubles even as early as 1979, Sridhara maharaja kept insisting that the 11 had been appointed by Srila Prabhupada as GURUS. And some Sridhara sites still say that (as we see in the conversations SM had with the GBC which are posted on the Gosai web site). Thus it seems the Sridhara Maharaja idea is that Srila Prabhupada did not understand that his followers are not fit for the post of acharya -- so he appointed them as acharyas anyway.

Our idea makes a lot more sense, the leaders had only been appointed as some sort of lesser level administrators, at best proxy priests (ritviks) and not as full-blown acharyas, because Srila Prabhupada could not have so badly mistaken as to think his leaders were fit to be acharyas. This issue has never been resolved, we would like this cleared up since we still see posting on various Sridhara sites including Gosai's repeating Sridhara Maharaja's idea -- that Srila Prabhupada had appointed the 11 as gurus. We still see recently you posting that the ritvik idea (that the 11 had not been appointed as gurus but only as agents) is a deviation. Where is the evidence the 11 had been appointed as gurus? Lets look at this discussion below:

Satsvarupa dasa Goswami: Then our next question concerns, uh, initiations in the future, ah, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how a, a first and second initiation would be conducted.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya.

Tamal Krishna Goswami: Is that called ritvik acarya?

Srila Prabhupada: Ritvik. Yes.

So here we find that there are going to be some officiating acharyas to conduct initiations AFTER he departs, called ritviks. We also find on this same tape that when these ritviks deviate (meaning some of them will) they will have to be replaced. How can we say that the 11 are acharyas, and at the same time they will deviate and have to be replaced? Why are people saying acharyas deviate and have to be replaced at all? Sridhara maharaja says the guru line is a living thing of accepting and rejecting, he said acharyas will have to be added and eliminated (when they deviate). Where in the parampara do we find that acharyas are being "added and eliminated" when they fall into illicit affairs? Incidentally, you mentioned on your site that Sridhara Maharaja was the person who suggested to the GBC the idea of "adding" more people as acharyas at their annual Mayapura meeting, which they are doing now. How can people who are deviating vote in another wave of acharyas?

Why would Srila Prabhupada say simultaneously: (a) After I depart I will name some officiating acharyas aka ritviks to conduct initiations on my behalf, (b) And these officiators will only be lower level kanistha priests, but also, they will be self-standing Vishnupada acharyas and have their own disciples, and (c) and despite their being acharyas -- they will be prone to deviate and fall down, and have to be replaced? None of this makes any sense? What makes sense is: that he had only appointed them as representatives, agents and proxies, to conduct the ceremonies on his behalf.

This is verified in the July 9th letter, they will act as his representatives "henceforward." Therefore, "when they deviate and have to be replaced," this only refers to the post of priest, the priest may be deviating and is then being replaced -- and not the acharyas? Yet the Sridhara Maharaja idea is: that it is the acharyas who are deviating and being replaced. Srila Prabhupada says it is a severe mad elephant idea to say acharyas are deviating?

This has not only never been resolved, saying that the ritvik idea is a deviation continues to create the illusion that the 11 were not appointed only as fallible priests, but as gurus. What we Prabhupadanugas are saying is: that is mis-representing Srila Prabhupada -- saying he did not appoint only temporary proxy priests -- aka ritviks, and he had been so much in illusion he had appointed them as gurus, that this is an attack on the character of Srila Prabhupada. It almost like saying Jesus appointed the Borgias dynasty to be his successors?

Of course Sridhara maharaja did the same thing in 1936, he implied that Ananta Vasudeva had been appointed as the successor and this discredited Srila Saraswati and his whole mission. This would also be like saying the brain surgeon had appointed the hospital janitor to be his successor, it makes no sense? It means the brain surgeon has no discrimination. This problem is not being cleared up by the Sridhara or GBC folks, it is making it look like the acharyas make mistakes and are prone to mundane defects.

If the 11 had only been appointed as temporary and replaceable agents, then they also would have been much easier to control and not so much mayhem would have occured. After the GBC and Sridhara maharaja declared that the 11 were acharyas, Dr. J. Stilson Judah told me this in person, then the -- "antinomianism" set in (lawlessness in the name of religion). And Sridhara Maharaja fueled that by saying "no law can challenge the (11) acharyas," in other words, nobody is allowed to challenge their evil doings. This created a violent cult atmosphere in the Gaudiya Matha and later in ISKCON. This cult atmosphere continues to this day, people are using aliases on Krishnacandra's web site in fear of reprisals for for speaking out. And the person who set this in motion, saying people should not criticize these gurus, is Sridhara Maharaja.

In any case, there is no evidence the 11 were appointed to be anything more than ritviks, and to say that appointing them in a lesser capacity than guru is "a deviation" makes it look like Srila Prabhupada committed the worst deviation of all, he appointed severely conditioned souls as acharyas. Can this issue be cleard up by your writing a paper explaining that it would have been impossible to have these 11 appointed as gurus, they must have been only appointed as administrators -- at best -- priests? And that Sridhara Maharaja was wrong to assist them in creating the illusion the 11 were gurus?   
 
4) NOT FIT FOR SANNYASA:

In January of 1977 Srila Prabhupada said his followers are not fit for sannyasa, they are making a laughing stock of sannyasa, and they should get married. So therefore, suspend making more sannyasas. According to the GBC - Sridhara Maharaja - Narayana Maharaja idea, a few months later, these same unfit for sannyasa people were appointed as gurus (May 28th 1977). Does this make any sense, they are not fit for sannyasa -- so a few months later they are fit to be acharya messiahs? And in January of 1977 Sridhara Maharaja was saying they are gurus and acharyas. How can they be unfit for sannyasa in January of 1977, and fit to be acharyas exactly one year later? Why has this never been clarified?

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Questions to Tripurari swami and the Sridhara Maharaja folks pt.2

Questions PT.2

5) CULTURE OF THREATS AND VIOLENCE POST-1936

6) CULTURE OF THREATS AND VIOLENCE POST-1977


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5) CULTURE OF THREATS AND VIOLENCE POST-1936

Srila Prabhupada told us in India (in 1971) that after 1936 some of the disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakura had "dissented" from promoting  Sridhara Maharaja and his new messiah "the successor acharya of the Gaudiya Matha -- Ananta Vasudeva." Some of these dissenters began to investigate the behavior of Ananta Vasudeva and they intercepted some "love letters" that Ananta Vasudeva was writing to a lover (a woman who was actually a prostitute).

Then, some of these post-1936 "dissenters" (ritviks?) began to publicly expose that Ananta Vasudeva was a false guru. After these dissenters began to expose the fact that the Bagh Bazaar and the "Sridhara and Ananta Vasudeva guru program" was bogus, a number of these "dissenters" were subsequently: beaten, had their faces pushed into dog stools, some had their skulls cracked with bricks, and some died from being beaten severely. This was the result of Sridhara Maharaja's promoting a false guru after 1936, i.e. Sridhara's program created a violent "personality cult" mood in the Gaudiya Matha. Perhaps this is why Srila Saraswati said "When our men will become sahajiya (imitation of the post of pure devotee), they will become more dangerous." And posing as an artificial acharya is the epitome of sahajiya-vada. And the danger is clear, innocent people can be murdered.

The violent atmosphere post-1936 was confirmed to me by Sudhir Krishna Maharaja (a Sridhara Maharaja follower) who told me that Sridhara Maharaja was once confronted by a guest about the Gaudiya Matha's beatings and murders problem, because that problem was being exposed in India's newspapers media. And according to Sudhir Krishna, Sridhara Maharaja responded to the guest by saying in effect -- do not be so surprised, killing goes on amongst devotees, just look at the Bhagavat Gita, there was a war.

In short, Sridhara Maharaja tried to justify his creating a bogus guru cult, which resulted in the vicious beatings and killings of the devotees of Krishna. This beating and killing of the vaishnavas program is justified by the Bhagavat Gita? It's all "approved" by Krishna? Does Krishna think its a good program to have His devotees beaten and killed because this is the whole idea of the Gita? Sorry, Sridhara Maharaja has not EVER had the authority to promote false gurus which results in the beatings and murders of Krishna's bhaktas and devotees. Which is why Srila Prabhupada says "Sridhara Maharaja acted without authority."

Lets not forget that in the Vedas the people who orchestrate having devotees beaten and killed are not seen as devotees themselves, they are seen as deviated from the Vedic path. The Bhagavad Gita is basically a story about the bona fide devotees (the Pandavas) who were being oppressed by non-devotees (the Kauravas). Krishna took the side of His devotees, the Pandavas, and He had the Kauravas killed for their offense of attacking His devotees.

The BHAGAVAD GITA is therefore not really a story about devotees v. devotees. Its a story about the usurpers of the property of the innocent devotees being killed by Krishna for that offense. Again, who authorized Sridhara Maharaja to have the property of the Gaudiya Matha usurped from the devotees so there would be a war with dead victims? Yes we agree, there was a war, but didn't Sridhara Maharaja start this war by empowering the usurpers? Srila Prabhupada says the false 1936 gurus were usurpers, and he says the Kauravas were ALSO usurpers, who authorized Sridhara to start this war by backing the usurpers?  

And isn't it wrong to use the Bhagavad Gita to cover up for our own mistakes? If we promote a false guru cult and vaishnavas are killed, why bring in Krishna's good name to protect and defend our own self-created mess? The devil made me do it? Krishna made me do it? No, Sridhara Maharaja created this environment and he has no authority to do so. That was Srila Prabhupada's point all along.   

The Gaudiya Matha's "dissenters" were apparently merely ordinary rank and file devotees just like us, they did not want to promote the worship of these deviants and they merely had wanted to continue the worship of their guru Srila Saraswati. Srila Prabhupada says Sridhara Maharaja "insisted on it" (promoting Ananta Vasudeva). The result was that dissenters were banned, beaten and killed for their "offense" of the desire -- to simply worship an actual pure devotee -- and not join Sridhara's bogus guru cult.

Even Srila Prabhupada himself told us in 1971 to post a guard at his door in Mayapura since his "envious God brothers" might try to have him killed. Who started this war? It was not Srila Prabhupada? The God brothers attacked him, that is plain and simple. Srila Prabhupada was another person who objected to their bogus gurus, so they wanted to kill him as well. And when we too objected to the same bogus guru process, we too could be killed by our bogus guru God brothers for challenging them?

The good news is that at least we are on the same page as Srila Prabhupada on this issue, all these bogus gurus do not like us, and all of these bogus gurus oppose our idea of continuing the worship of Srila Prabhupada. And after 1936 some of the rank and file dissented, and after 1977 some of us dissented, because there are some of us folks who want to worship the pure devotees and we were not going to compromise.   

Why was Sridhara Maharaja on the side of these deviants? Srila Prabhupada said Sridhara was good friends with Madhvava maharaja (one of the worst offenders in the Gaudiya Matha bunch, who in 1971 came to Mayapura to poke his finger in Srila Prabhupada's face and order him to quit using the title of Prabhupada). Meanwhile Sridhara was simultaneously "aloof" from associating with Srila Prabhupada. Why was Sridhara Maharaja pals with the blasphemers of Srila Prabhupada (they said he could not use the name of "Prabhupada"?), and Sridhara was not associating with Prabhupada instead? (see this conversation which we will post later, where Srila Prabhupada agrees Sridhara is associated with the bad elements of the Gaudiya Matha and he is "aloof" -- and not associated with -- Srila Prabhupada himself).

Why was Sridhara Maharaja friends with these false gurus of the Gaudiya Matha who viciously attacked Srila Prabhupada for: Allowing women in the temples; For allowing "mlecchas" to do deity worship; For using the title of Prabhupada etc. and whom Srila Prabhupada thought "might try to kill me"? And then later, Sridhara was friends with the 11 false GBC gurus of ISKCON while stepping down on us dissenters who -- just wanted to worship Srila Prabhupada?

I have never, ever, EVER seen any good explanation for why the Sridhara Maharaja's program was ever authorized to orchestrate all of this? Rather we find that Srila Prahbupada says Sridhara Maharaja "acted without authority" and his Bagh Bazaar program was "the severe offender" program. When are the followers of Sridhara Maharaja going to acknowledge that Sridhara's plan to make false gurus is not only bogus, it proved deadly for the innocent rank and file members of the Gaudiya Matha who were banned, beaten and some were assassinated? And even the guru Sridhara promoted committed suicide, so Sridhara is responsible for that problem as well since Ananta Vasudeva was coerced by Sridhara to take the post of acharya?

And the entire mission was basically ruined as a result of all these plans made by people like Sridhara Maharaja? Even Sridhara said his God brothers complained he was "a form breaker" -- because he broke down the Gaudiya mission. Why would we want that same policy for ISKCON?

6) CULTURE OF THREATS AND VIOLENCE POST-1977

Then after 1977, Sridhara Maharaja once again promoted the same identical false gurus deviation of 1936 by promoting the GBC and their 11 self-appointed gurus. Here is the main problem we see with the Sridhara Maharaja process of support for false gurus after 1977; Sridhara already knew that by his promoting false gurus this leads to contrived banning, beatings, violence and even murders. He knew this directly from his experience in the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha. Sridhara Maharaja knew this better than any of us ever could have known, because he was there during the whole "oppression and murders of the Gaudiya Matha's dissenters" era. Or was he asleep at the switch the whole time? Or did he not care that dissenters were treated severely? Or what?

Thus by 1977 Sridhara knew perhaps better than anyone else on the planet, that by this program of promoting unqualified persons as gurus the result could be, and probably would be, violence. Of course we all know about this process of violence stemming from false prophets, pure devotees, gurus and messiahs. Just look at the false messiah cults of Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson and countless others who promoted themselves as messiahs when they were not qualified, and the result was often beatings of dissenters if not worse. Why would Sridhara Maharaja continue promoting the false guru's process even after he knew full well that the results could be, and probably would be, indeed almost inevitably would be, violence for the dissenters?

I have no idea why Sridhara Maharaja or his followers have considered themselves as authorized to foment these types of conditions where people like us will be targets of violence for opposing? As for the wonderful pure devotee ISKCON leaders that Sridhara Maharaja was promoting as gurus after 1977, did he not know Srila Prabhupada had been saying his leaders are "The Great Sinister Movement within my movement," "a great conspiracy," and "once before you wanted to do something centralizing with your G.B.C. meeting, and, if I did not interfere, the whole thing (ISKCON) would have been killed" -- ad infinitum?

Srila Prabhupada made these types of complaints against the leaders all the time. And he said things like: his failing sannyasas are breaking his heart, so suspend sannyasa. He said his leaders were mostly not chanting and following, and he said at least one of them is waiting for him to die so he could take his guru seat, and he said -- I cannot sleep at night because Tamal is ruining my ISKCON, lets send Tamal to China because he is destroying my ISKCON. Why would these types of people be considered as acharyas by Sridhara Maharaja? The very same people who wanted Srila Prabhupada's guru seat, the people who are destroying his mission, the people he said are fighting like cats and dogs, the people he said are not fit for sannyasa, the people he said are "plotting and scheming" (against him?) -- are gurus?

In sum, Srila Prabhupada felt that his leaders are not very trustworthy, what to speak of their being gurus? And why would he "centralize the whole thing" in the hands of the 1978 11 member "acharya board" -- after just saying this centralizing process is going to kill his whole movement (as it has)? See http://tattvasanga.com/ for some quotes on Srila Prabhupada's doubts over these leaders. How could "the great sinister movement" become "Krishna's successor acharyas" all of a sudden? Does this make any sense?

Then, when we expressed the same doubts Srila Prabhupada had expressed over these same leaders, Sridhara Maharaja was saying "none should protest," i.e. we need to promote and back-up these leaders as acharyas? Didn't he know that our protesting these false acharyas would be dangerous for us since that is what happened after 1936 -- with his previous false guru program? And sure enough, the Sridhara Maharaja people and the GBC program he was supporting started to call us vile names such as: aparadhis, attackers of ISKCON, cheaters, envious, demons, deviants, offenders, poison pens, ritvik poison, snakes, serpents with jewelled heads, and so on, ... giving us the feeling we could be targets of violence due to this rhetoric? We did not want to support the 11, so were were "offending the pure devotee Sridhara Maharaja who supports them." No, we did not want to promote the 11, that is all.  

Is this odious rhetoric problem not exactly what occurred to those who disagreed with the Sridhara guru program after 1936? Why would Sridhara duplicate the process of suppressing dissenters that he orchestrated after 1936? And by his support of the 11, now we are being chased with baseball bats after dissenters after 1936 had been chased with bricks? It seems we dissenters never get any mercy here? Did he not know this would cause of great distress to us dissenters, or even worse? Did he not care? Or what? Why is this never explained?

Sure enough, we did become targets for violence. Worse, even recently  a Sridhara Maharaja web site has been calling us aparadhis, dangerous, deviants and so on, the same style of rhetoric used by the GBC's gurus project, the same rhetoric we have heard being used by the Narayana Maharaja people against us, the same style rhetoric we get from the Gaura Govinda maharaja people etc. -- don't they know that demonizing others can get them killed? Don't they know this can rain down threats and maybe violence on us because we have been squalking about it since the murder of Sulochana in 1986, yet they continued that rhetoric until recently? Who authorized them to use this rhetoric, knowing from 1936 until the present time, this can get devotees beaten and killed? Or don't they pay any attention to how devotees get treated with this rhetoric? Or don't they care? Or what?

Hence, since the 1980s we have got direct threats of violence from the followers of both the GBC and Sridhara Maharaja folks due to this rhetoric. Who authorized Sridhara Maharaja and / or his dedicated followers to foment this aggressive mood against other vaishnavas? Why are they demonizing the worshippers of Srila Prabhupada as evil deviants (who can be killed)? Of course the followers of the GBC, Sridhara, Narayana maharaja process have also called us insane, mad, fools, and so on, therefore when we complained about things like child molesting, their discrediting us helped the problems along. Are we ever going to get an apology for all this? Again this raises the main question, (a) weren't we authorized to challenge these false gurus of 1977 -- which resulted in molesting and murder, or (b) was Sridhara authorized to promote them, and discredit and squash our protest, to the peril of us and the victims we were trying to save?

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Question for Tripurari swami - Sridhara maharaja folks no.5

Will be continued ........ !

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Tripurari swami update 03/12/12

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Some persons have written to me asking what the scriptural support against ritvikvada is. However, the onus is on ritviks to demonstrate the scriptural support for their new system.

[PADA: The system of priests, churches and temples is not a new system? Jesus Christ has been worshipped for 2,000 years in the system of priests, and Srila Prabhupada says that is bona fide. He also said Jesus is still accepting the sins of his followers even now.

Srila Prabhupada Lecture, October 2, 1968, Seattle:

Madhudvisa: "Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a spiritual master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?
Prabhupada: I don't follow.
Tamala Krsna: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus's words, reach the...
Prabhupada: When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master?
Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living spiritual master.
Prabhupada: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is ETERNAL. Spiritual master is ETERNAL. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible," when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master REPRESENTED by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?"

TRIPURARI SWAMI: And as I have already pointed out, this does not involve citing one verse or one or two statements of Prabhupada. It involves sastra-yukti, which Sri Jiva Goswami refers to as the uttama pramana, citing the tantra.

[PADA: Why does the worship of a pure devotee - messiah like Jesus have to be "proven" at all by anyone? The pure devotee is self effulgent, he does not need a shastric validation. We worship pure devotees because they are God's representatives, there is no need to "prove" such a process. This is the order of God in all religions, "worship My pure devotees." Moreover the Goswamis said that people who worship deviants or promote that are "utpat" -- simply a disturbance for the sincere devotees.  

Whereas Tripurari's mentor Sridhara Maharaja in 1936 supported the worship of a homosexual deviant as the messiah of his Gaudiya Matha society. Sridhara complained there was "no shastra" to prove that the Gaudiya Matha should have continued to worship their pure devotee under a church - priest - Governing Body system. The result was: Sridhara's messiah (Ananta Vasudeva) deteriorated into bi-sexual actions and scandals, dissenters were beaten and killed, and later their bogus messiah's child was poisoned to death to cover up these scandals, and then Sridhara's messiah committed suicide. Where is the evidence that this Sridhara - Tripurari false pure devotee program is bona fide, or found in shastra?

Worse, the Sridhara and Tripurari folks are saying the priest (ritvik) system, also used to worship Jesus, is the bogus ritvik idea. They even say this system is a severe offense -- i.e. worship of a saint like Jesus under their Church system of priests. However, then we find the Sridhara program has been promoting deviants and even homosexuals as messiahs instead of someone like Jesus. Anyone over the age of ten in the USA knows is it bona fide to worship Jesus and it is not bona fide to worship homosexuals and deviants as messiahs and acharyas. Average people do not need any "shasta" to know that, it is common sense. Incidentally, because Sridhara did not listen to me and tell Jayatirtha to quit his false messiah's program, Jayatirtha had his head hacked off for having sex with the wife of a follower. Another dead body thanks to the Sridhara and Tripurari policy of supporting these people as gurus and harassing us who tried to save Jayatirtha. If we follow shastra, then we would know that a person who takes drugs and has sex with the wives followers etc. is NOT THE NEXT MESSIAH! Sridhara should not have told him to stay in that post!]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: What we have seen instead is more analogous to a legal argument one engages in to determine the intent of a deceased person's will. Again, if Prabhupada wanted this system, he or his followers must demonstrate how it follows Gaudiya siddhanta, or face being labeled members of an apasampradaya by the rest of the lineage, including the rest of the Bhaktivinoda parivara. Remember, this is what Prabhupada himself taught us.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada was asked how initiations would be conducted at that time when he would no longer be with us, and he said he was going to make ritviks. BV Puri maharaja also confirmed that Srila Prabhupada said he was only making ritviks. The legal argument that evolved was, how come the GBC, their allies like Tripurari and Sridhara and ilk supported the post 1978 -- "11 GBC gurus" -- who created all kinds of criminal mischeif, including molesting and murder? And we had to sue these "gurus" for $400,000,000 for their molesting program? And where is the legal evidence Srila Prabhupada had ordered these neophytes to be worshiped as messiahs?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: There is a methodology for arriving at siddhanta. It involves a thesis (visaya) entertaining a doubt (samsaya), arguing in favor of the doubt (purvapaksin), and refuting this argument with reference to sastra that is in consideration of context (sangati).

[PADA: Right, Sridhara maharaja's thesis in 1936 was: That a person with material attraction tendencies has to be worshipped as their "successor to God" messiah. As a result, dissenters were murdered. After 1978, Sridhara maharaja continued with his same thesis, that persons with anarthas, such as homosexual tendencies, need to be worshiped as gurus. The result was worse this time, thousands of children were molested and dissenters were being assassinated once again. That means, even after seeing that his promoting the worship of conditioned beings as Jesus-like messiahs after 1936 was dangerous, indeed deadly, because the Sridhara maharaja POLICY of making false gurus created beatings and murders, Sridhara STILL went ahead and did the same exact thing again, he did not learn that promoting false messiahs is dangerous and wrong.

Apparently, neither has Tripurari learned this lesson? He still says those of us who opposed the worship of the GBC's 1978 homosexuals and pedophiles as messiahs program (that Sridhara maharaja supported and Tripurari was trying to get voted into) are "ritvik aparadhis." Calling people ritvik aparadhis in ISKCON can get people killed, as Tripurari is well aware. So now he is apparently trying to get not only me but my entire family members and friends targeted for violence, or treated severely by branding all of us as ritvik aparadhi offenders. Tripurari still does not know his mentor had no authority to get dissenters murdered by promoting false messiahs after 1936? In other words, they are still trying to target us for violence because we did not accept Sridhara's original idea of 1936 and later in 1978: That deviants, homosexuals and - or molesters can be worshiped as God's successor messiahs.]     
TRIPURARI SWAMI: That said I will indulge those who erroneously think that the onus for demonstrating rivikvada is appasiddhanta is on those who reject it.

[PADA: We have proven this many times over: Worship of Lord Jesus by the system of ritviks is bona fide. No one except people like Tripurari are attacking the system of worship of Jesus as a deviation. And the GBC, Sridhara, Tripurari ilk and clan have said things like: the ritviks (ok the Christians are included here) are: Bogus, offenders, aparadhis, poison, demons (Tripurari called me a demon to my face), and so on, DEMONIZING the worship of pure devotees like Jesus. Which shastra says we have to brand the worship of pure devotees as the demoniac deviation? Which shastra says we should orchestrate murders by saying "none should protest" the worship of deviants, thus self-evidently setting up the dissenters for beatings and murders?

Some of these ilk also say the worship of a saint like Jesus is the "posthumous" worship deviation and so on. Meanwhile, while making it sound like the worship of someone like Jesus is bogus, Sridhara maharaja program promoted a homosexual messiah in 1936, and then homosexuals and pedophiles as messiahs after 1978. The proof that this is bogus is there already, this resulted in molesting, banning, beating, murders, and so on. It was a failure in 1936 and it was a failure after 1978. Moreover, there was no order from any acharya to attack the worship of Jesus as the bogus ritvik process, and to demonize his worship as an offense.]   

Visaya: For a lineage to remain spiritually vital a successor who has the capacity to give initiation is required.

[PADA: OK, so why has the Sridhara maharaja program said that homosexuals have had the capacity to to be diksha gurus and absorb sins like Jesus is doing? And that anyone who objects is an aparadhi, which gives virtual licence that the dissenters can thus be targeted to be beaten and killed?]

Samsaya: I see no reason why the guru cannot perform ritvik initiations after his departure.

Purvapaksin: The guru can give initiations via a ritvik after his departure because we see that he can give ritvik initiation when he is not present in one part of the of the world to a disciple in another part of the world through a ritvik, and this is analogous to his initiating from the the paravyoma via a ritvik. Furthermore whatever the guru says is sastra, and thus if he says he wants such a system it is authorized by sastra.

Siddhanta: No, because of parampara and the purpose of sastra.

Commentary: To say that everything the guru says is sastra is to defeat the very purpose of sastra.

[PADA: There is no scripture in the world which says that people can worship homosexuals and deviants as messiahs, as Sridhara Maharaja promoted in post 1936 and post 1978.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Sastra is a standard of knowledge that helps one know who is guru and who is not.

[PADA: And Srila Prabhupada says -- amongst his God brothers no one is qualified to be acharya, because they tend to make unqualified fools into their messiahs.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Thus to be credible the guru must support his or her position with sastra. The truth is that under scrutiny the words of the guru that take on a sastric status in a particular sect are also found to be supported by sastra, if that is, the sect is to remain spiritually vital. In the case where a guru's words are interpreted to say that he will continue to initiate after his departure through ritvik representatives, because there is no underlying scriptural support for this idea, such an interpretation is incorrect. This is especially so when there is considerable evidence to support the idea that the guru did not say he wanted such a system.

[PADA: Again, there is no shastra in the world where people are authorized to be promoting the worship of homosexuals and various deviants as their messiahs. In fact Srila Prabhupada says that even in the African tribal (cannibal?) societies, they worship something like -- lightening, a mountain, or a lion ... something wonderful from nature. And he says this is bona fide because this is worship of the universal form of God. Yet even in tribal cannibal society we do not find they are worshipping the GBC - Sridhara program of -- illicit sex messiahs? A deviation which Sridhara maharaja clearly promoted over generations of time, and there is evidence of this in the conversations with Sridhara in 1978 where he says the 11 are gurus. And he continued to say the 11 are gurus even after he was told they were deviating. Sorry, deviating people are not gurus.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Previous precedent illustrates that the rivik perfoms functions on behalf of the acarya with his permission while he is present in the world and acting as a diska guru.

[PADA: And when no one is qualified to be an acharya that system continues indefinitely. A neophyte can only act as a representative (ritvik) not as a messiah - acharya. So the GBC -- Sridhara -- Tripurari program telescoped the levels of neophyte with the messiahs, and ended up with homosexuals and pedophiles as their messiahs. Naturally, this is a potentially violent and deadly situation for the dissenters.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: This is common. However, when the diksa guru departs he becomes a purvacarya and the service of diska passes "from one to another."

[PADA: The process of pure gurus passes from (a) the pure guru to (b) self-appointed deviants, the homosexuals, and so on, as Sridhara supported in 1936 and 1978? And now they are also attacking the worship of Jesus as a ritvik deviation -- while saying Sridhara and his two generations of homosexual guru process has been the bona fide process? Yes, they passed the homosexual guru deviation "from one generation to another." And dissenters were beaten and murdered in both instances. Where does shastra authorize any of this?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: This is the meaning of "parampara," "an uninterrupted series."

[PADA: No, there are only 32 gurus listed for 5,000 years, there are many gaps. And why should the Christians quit the worship of Jesus to worship one of Sridhara's "series" which contains deviants? And why are the Christians and us aparadhis -- offenders for refusing to accept the worship of such deviants? And why does Srila Prabhupada say the 32 gurus in the parampara shows that there are gaps?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Parampara (one after another) is the chosen system Bhagavan has established for the continuation of a lineage and the filling of the spiritual vacuum that occurs at the time of the departure of the diksa guru, evam parampara praptam . . . (Bg 4.2).

[PADA: And so, the vaccum should be filled with deviants? And why should the people who worship Jesus accept the worship of deviants instead of worship of Jesus? Why is the worship of deviants superior to the worship of Jesus? And why are the Christians ritvik - offender - aparadhis for refusing to worship Sridhara's line of deviants as their messiahs?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: To stop this system by not allowing for a successor diksa guru to follow is to go against the system established by Bhagavan.

[PADA: Are you kidding! Bhagavan (God) wanted Sridhara maharaja to establish the worship of homosexuals as GOD'S successors and messiahs, and declare the worship of Jesus as an offensive ritvik deviation? I am sorry, but when we tell this to Christians, they think you folks are the ones who are off the rails and not them! So look at what occurs here, "God wanted" Sridhara and his homosexual guru processs, so when we oppose, we are opposing God, see how Tripurari is trying to get us assassinated by branding us as offenders to God? It works, many people were beaten and killed after 1936 by the Sridhara idea of bogus gurus then, and this process of beatings and killings has gone on ever since. Of course people get killed every day in some parts of the world for "offending God" --- its a great way to have people offed. Why does Tripurari think he is authorized to promote this rhetoric against the Vaishnavas and even the Christians, they are all ritvik offenders?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: And Padma Purana and Garga-samhita teach that mantras that are not received through the traditional parmapara system bear no fruit. This is the meaning of "sampradaya vihina ye mantras te nisphala matah." If there is no successor diksa guru, there is no parampara, and sastra stresses that any mantra received through such a truncated system will bear no fruit.

[PADA: Except that even the average Christians are not engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, whereas in the successor guru - messiah system established by Sridhara maharaja, there has been extreme deviants who have been engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children -- posing as messiahs. That means the ordinary Christians are getting a higher fruit because for the most part they have avoided these deviations, whereas within the highest level acharyas in the Sridhara system they have fallen into these deviations.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: It is also the desire of Bhagavan through this parampara system to glorify the successor acarya, who remaining in the world has recourse to the requisite discrimination employed in granting diksa.

[PADA: God is glorified by saying the worship of Jesus is a deviation, and we need to worship Sridhara's homosexual messiahs instead?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Note that the ritvika does not discriminate who will be initiated and who will not, but merely suggests candidates.

[PADA: No, the ritvik system was in place in 1970, people were recommended by the temple presidents. And the Christians have the same basic system, a Christian neophyte is recommended by the elders for baptism, and that person has to pass some standards, then he is baptized.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: And only upon approval of the acaraya of those specific candidates does the ritvik perform the procedures surrounding diksa. This is the example Prabhupada himself set when he was present and designated ritviks. When Prabhupada was present, ritviks sought his approval. If, however, ritviks are empowered to get his approval or disapproval from him once he has entered the nitya-lila, they are far more than ritviks and qualified to initiate themselves.

[PADA: How can people with anarthas such as homosexuality take disciples like Jesus does, initiate by themselves like Jesus, and accept sins like Jesus does? (diksha)!!!]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Now if we also look at the sangati of Gita 4.2 We find it appears in the midst of lessons on avatara tattva. Thus parampara speaks of a particular type of Bhagavan's descent, the conditions for which are well known. To militate against this on the basis of highly debatable statements of an acarya that cannot be definitively interpreted to support forgoing the parampara system is not wise. And we see the result. This present ritvik system in many cases fosters conspiracy theories and Vaisnava aparadha, not humility and the desire for sadhu sanga.

[PADA: No, as soon as we said that persons engaged in illicit sex, drugs, homosexuality and other deviations are not God's succesors and messiahs, Sridhara maharaja said "none should protest," i.e. we should be removed from the sangha. Of course that was a blessing, we were kicked out due to his policy of eliminating us protestors.

Who wants to be in the sangha of people who are worshipping illicit sex as messiahs? And because we objected, we immediately got death threats because of Sridhara maharaja saying none should protest. Basically Sridhara set us up to get treated with violence by saying we cannot protest his bogus messiahs program, hence we still get death threats all the time since we still say homosexuals and deviants are not acharyas. And the GBC and Sridhara have no authority to promote such deviants as messiahs in the first place.

As for humilty, if we wrote to 500 churches in North Carolina and 500 around Miami that there is a cult there that direct or de facto says that worship of Jesus is the bogus aparadhi poison ritvik deviation, because we need to worship Sridhara and his idea of homosexual messiahs, we could have caused major mayhem for Tripurari years ago. We have been pretty humble not to have done so. Especially so, because EVEN NOW Tripurari is trying to target my entire family with violence by saying we are ALL the ritvik aparadhis. Of course if we write to inform the Christians they are all poison ritvik deviant aparadhis for not accepting the founder -- promoter of 1936 and 1978 homosexual guru lineages, they would be shocked.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Finally regarding the term "parampara" we find the following written by Srila Prabhupada: "Keep trained up very rigidly and then you are bona fide Guru, and you can accept disciples on the same principle. But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession. I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely, that will make me and Krishna very happy." (December, 1975)

This statement also makes it clear the he did not want a concocted ritvik system, but rather a traditional system supported by sastra and previous precedent.

[PADA: Right, after Sulochana was killed for printing these letters, now they are quoting these letters. Amazing. Sorry, this letter is not naming any specific persons to be guru, it says there is a principle, its a general statement. Basically, when you are qualified, you are a brain surgeon, that does not means the hospital janitor grabs a hack saw and starts to perfrom brain surgery now? Notice also, the "tradition" is, we cannot worship Jesus, that is the bogus ritvik idea, we have to worship Sridhara's bogus messiahs projects, and messiahs in that project are constantly falling into illicit sex with men, women and children? That is superior to the worship of Jesus? What kind of tradition is that? In general, a devotee should try to be pure and acharya, but since there are only 32 acharyas since 5,000 years time, this does not happen very often. ys pd]

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Attacking Christianity was never authorized

PADA: The GBC and Gaudiya Matha folks commonly demonize "the ritviks" -- which would include ALL of the Christians who worship Jesus through a priest (ritvik) as -- bogus, rascals, demons, fools, aparadhis, even -- "ritvik poison." Where does Srila Prabhupada say the worship of Jesus is ritvik poison? He never said that. And, as a result of their POLICY of attacking the worship of great souls like Jesus as bogus ritviks, or our worship of Prabhupada using the same idea, sometimes our ritvik associates are targeted with violence (even assassinations) thanks to GBC or Gaudiya Matha's demonizing us with their propaganda. Anyway, back to our original point -- where does Srila Prabhupada say we have to attack the Christian folks as bogus ritvik demons, aparadhis, poison and so on?

And even if we ritviks are not named individually, since they lump all of us "ritivks" together as: bogus, aparadhis, demons and so on, that means: We, our friends and families, the thousands of ritviks worldwide, and indeed all of the Christians who are all ritviks, are all in peril of violence by this sort of demonizing.

Can we get a change of this policy? Is that too much to ask? Notice below that Srila Prabhupada endorses the Christians and their ritvik system. Incidently, many (or actually most?) of the "replacements for Jesus" messiahs promoted by the GBC and Gaudiya Matha have been debauchees of the worst order. And these fools are promoting these "sin absorbing" gurus as the better option than worship of Jesus? So this is simply another layer, amongst layers and layers of their attack upon Jesus. We would like to get a policy change from these folks, quit demonizing the worship of Jesus, and we think this is quite reasonable since this was NEVER AUTHORIZED. ys pd  

Srila Prabhupada Lecture, October 2, 1968, Seattle:

Madhudvisa: "Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a spiritual master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?
Prabhupada: I don't follow.
Tamala Krsna: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus's words, reach the...
Prabhupada: When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master?
Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living spiritual master.
Prabhupada: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is ETERNAL. Spiritual master is ETERNAL. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible," when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master REPRESENTED by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?"

--- 

The Christians are all ritviks

PADA: Thanks for your question Charles. Yes, when the GBC and their ilk say that the ritviks (worship of a pure devotee by priests system) are all demons, pasandis, aparadhis, and allegedly Narayana Maharaja said the rtiviks are poison, yes you are quite right, ... they are also ATTACKING all of the Christians in the world since; ALL of the Christians in the world worship Jesus by their system of priests (ritviks).

ALL of the CHRISTIANS follow the ritvik system. This is another reason these GBC and Gaudiya Matha leaders are being rejected by the Christians, these leaders were never told to make a wholesale attack on Jesus and / or his Christian religion and keep saying the whole idea of worship of Jesus is the bogus "ritvik" deviant system and so on.

Worse, these attackers of Jesus and the Prabhupadanugas often say we need to worship their living guru, and yet quite often the living persons they forward as their idea of messiahs -- are later proven to be debauchees, just look at the list of fallen gurus in ISKCON. Worse, they said when we refused to worship their debauchees were were aparadhis, and then some of us were killed. In any case you are correct, anyone who says the ritviks are bogus is attacking Lord Jesus and His entire religion.   

Tripurari swami: Oh come now prophet. As you speak it is ritvikvada that is withering and dying. Indeed, it can only flourish in a spiritual vaccuum. There are hundreds of Gaudiya sects following the Bhagavad gita's solution to spiritual deficit -- guru parampara -- and they are not all going to fold as ritivkvada comes to dominate the landscape as the new adjusted true form of Gaudiya Vasinavsm. Talk about gurus suffering from grandiosity!

[PADA: Sorry, but ALL the Christians are ALL ritviks and there is no evidence they are "withering and dying," rather they have got billions of followers all over the planet, and they are growing exponentially worldwide, and they are building huge churches, raising millions of dollars to print Bibles and so on. The Christians just bought a huge warehouse in the Bay area where they are making a giant Church and center, there is parking for 2,000 cars there. Does Tripurari have even a small center here? No. Who is withering on the vine? Even the Prabhupada devotees have a center in Sunnyvale. Notice however that Srila Prabhupada never attacked the "ritvik sytsem" of the Christians, rather he said they are bona fide to have their worship of Jesus conducted by priests. Srila Prabhupada said Jesus is my brother, he never said Jesus is the founder of the bogus ritvik system? Why are we attacking the religion of Lord Jesus? And in public?

Anyway, maybe there are hundreds of Vaisvava sects all over the place in India with all kinds of gurus, but they are certainly not prominent in the USA. There are hundreds of sahajiyas and babajis all over the place in India, but Srila Prabhupada did not recognize them as authorized. As Srila Prabhupada says -- in India there is an avatar on every street corner, but Srila Prabhupada also said -- amongst my God brothers no one is qualified to be acharya. So which of these hundreds are we supposed to follow? And why have we not heard about their sects here in the USA, except for maybe a few Gaudiya Matha temples, with hardly any following or substance.

Srila Prabhupada never said there are hundreds of bona fide acharyas in India, rather he said that India has mostly bogus acharyas. In any case, who has ever heard of these hundreds of acharyas? Hardly no one? Who has heard of Jesus? Everyone! When did Srila Prabhupada discuss these hundreds of bona fide gurus in India? He did not. He did say the worship of Jesus is bona fide however (the ritvik system).

So when these GBC and Gaudiya Matha leaders say the Christians are bogus and these alleged hundreds of gurus are overtaking the ritviks aka the worship of Jesus, they are the ones who are suffering from grandiosity! Hah hah, these hundreds of sects are overtaking Jesus and his ritvik system? They are really disconnected from reality. Perhaps one reason some of these leaders do not like the Christians and their ritvik system is -- that the Christians and their FBI and police kept me alive from being squashed by their "hundreds of gurus." ys pd]    

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012

Devotees orchestrating violence on -- devotees?

"When senior Guadiyas were asked the same questions they termed ritvik a dangerous deviation (B.P. Puri Goswami) and well intended but misinformed (B.R. Sridhara Deva Goswami)."

PADA: The word "ritvik" literally means "priest." So a "rtvik follower" is a person who worships a pure devotee like Jesus through a priest, as is done all over the world in the Christian churches. Notice that the bogus ISKCON leaders, and since 1977 their vociferous assistants -- such as the Sridhara maharaja and Narayana maharaja camps, they ALL seem to say things like: "the ritviks are offenders." Yet Srila Prabhupada never said the duty of the devotees of Krishna is to deride and challenge the Christian faith and their worship of Jesus as some odious deviation? Rather Srila Prabhupada said just the opposite, it is the duty of ALL Krishna devotees to show respect to Jesus, and he furthermore said that their system of Jesus being worshiped by priests (ritviks) is bona fide. In fact Srila Prabhupada says "Jesus is our guru," he never said we should attack the worship of Jesus, or the system used to worship Jesus?

And of course these people say things like "the ritvik system is like the Christians." Read: the worship of Jesus is BAD, BAD, BAD for you! BAD deviation here! That bogus worship of Jesus idea must be stopped! Instead, why not worship the bogus gurus promoted by the 1936 Gaudiya Matha and the GBC gurus they supported after 1978, this is GOOD for you!

Of course the bogus post-1977 ISKCON messiahs and their "advisors" like the -- Sridhara -- Narayana maharaja folks et al. are "lumping in" not only us individually -- as "offenders" -- but also our families, children, friends, and the thousands of ritviks worldwide, and ALL the Christians in the world who are ALL ritviks (the Christians have a system of ritvik priests to worship Jesus). Yet all of a sudden, ALL of us are "ritvik deviant offenders"? Except, Srila Prabhupada said just the opposite, he said the Sridhara Maharaja Bagh Bazaar camp are the:
"severe offenders"

for their promoting bogus gurus and messiahs. In short, Srila Prabhupada never said the Christians are all ritvik deviants, rather he said we all join the Christians to worship Jesus because "Jesus is my brother" so it is not the Christians who are to be attacked, it is -- Sridhara Maharaja's false guru program which he said is the: "Kill guru and become guru" program; The "homosex and sex" guru program; The "less than sudra" guru program etc. -- all deviations.

Notice what our collective "offense" is? We want to worship a pure devotee and not the debauchees that have been promoted as messiahs by the ISKCON leaders and their "shiksha guru advisors" like the Sridhara and Narayana maharaja programs that assisted the GBC gurus? To sum, (A) worship of Jesus (or Srila Prabhupada or similar pure devotees) is the bogus "rtivik idea" because; (B) We need to worship the ISKCON gurus who are many times falling and "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children" (at least so says their spokesman Jayadvaita swami); Or we have to worship the founder fathers of that program; Or the Gaudiya Matha "advisors" of that program -- all of the assembled members of the worship of various debauchees as messiah's programs are superior to the worship of someone like Jesus? Where does Srila Prabhupada say that? Narayana Maharaja even wrote a Guru Tattva book citing that "there was nothing wrong" with the Ananta Vasudeva acharya program. There is nothing wrong with the worship of homosexuals as messiahs?

Of course we all know that "offenders" can be beaten and killed in the ISKCON environment. Why would someone claim to be a devotee of Krishna, and simultaneously make propaganda that the other Krishna devotees are for example: against shastra, aparadhis, barking dogs, dangerous, deadly, dead meat on a hook, demented, demons, devious, dog stools, egotistical, envious, evil, garbage, malicious, offenders to God, poison, puffed-up, psychotic, rabid, Satanic, snakes, toxic, wrong, ad infinitum, ... the very types of words we have heard from these types of "devotees" for the past 35 years, ok from the bogus ISKCON leadership campus and -- or -- the members of the Sridhara and Narayana maharaja camps? These are examples of the general slogans their members have used against us, of course some of what they have called me cannot be printed in a family forum.

Are these the types of words we would use to describe fellow Krishna devotees and vaishnavas? No, these are words that are used to foment violence against the devotees of Krishna. Just look at any place on earth where there is a lot of violence, and these are the types of words we will find being used to make it seem authorized to attack others. No surprise then -- that these words have got Krishna's devotees beaten and killed, going back to 1936 when Sridhara started his false guru's program and "dissenters" were branded as evil aparadhis, and they were beaten or killed. No suprise these words are STILL being used then, we all know what the potential outcome is: violence, as we have seen practically since 1977, that this rhetoric foments violence.

So this is the question we get all the time, why are the members of the so-called devotees of Krishna religion, ok such as the ISKCON leader's group and the Sridhara and Narayana groups, sometimes or all the time calling other devotees these vile names, knowing that this has sometimes caused the victims of this rhetoric to be beaten and killed? What kinds of devotees are these? Why do they want to see other devotees assaulted and killed by using this rhetoric? Or what else is this rhetoric being used for?   

Incidentally, it is easy to find many types of negative and offensive comments about "the ritviks" on web sites citing the followers of the bogus ISKCON leaders and / or the Sridhara and Narayana maharaja folks, or their "vaishnava forums" where these folks post articles and so forth. Some of the followers of Narayana Maharaja once told me he had said the ritviks are "poison." Anyway, this type of language is not used amongst vaishnavas.

Worse, they are setting up another young and new generation of banning, beating, death threats and murders by using this rhetoric against us and our circle of vaishnava associates, including the small children of our associates? For example, since ALL ritviks are being branded this way, that means even the little babies of our associates are already being branded as "ritvik aparadhis" by some in their party, right from birth. That means in future, these children can become future targets for assassination by using this rhetoric against them now? They are setting up future assassinations of the current vaishnava babies? OK this is why we are always asked, what kind of people would do these things? Notice, Sridhara set up violence against the devotees of Krishna by branding a fool as the next acharya, and then he did the same exact thing post 1977, supported more bogus "acharyas," .... surprise! People were beaten and killed. And now some of the leaders of the Sridhara camp are still calling us aparadhis recently, surprised? No, that is their whole idea since 1936. Or what?

This "violence against vaishnavas" has gone on for generations and decades. For example, the "dissenters" (ok people like us) of Sridhara's Gaudiya Matha "guru" in 1936, as well as the GBC "gurus" he endorsed after 1978, were often painted as "offenders," and thus (no surprise) some of them were beaten or killed. That means the Sridhara maharaja process and policy "passed on" the odious problem of having God's devotees beaten and killed from one generation to the next. And now they are training a whole new generation to bring forward more of these vile rhetoric attacks, meant to incite violence -- or if not, then what else are they doing that for?

Is there any other good reason to call the devotees of Krishna -- aparadhis, if not evil dog stools and vile poison, other than, to get them beaten or assassinated? What other purpose is there for this type of language? And some of the Gaura Govinda folks recently wrote to tell me, my head should be chopped off by the Sudarsan charkra, in other words they are AUTHORIZED TO KILL THE DEVOTEES OF KRISHNA. How did you guess, they are in love with some of these Gaudiya Matha leaders.

And this is the history of their use of that rhetoric, Sridhara Maharaja said that a false guru should be supported in 1936. He basically said none should object, this is the new messiah of the jagat. Hence, those who objected were challenging God's messiah and so they were --  subject to being beaten and killed. Then is the same Sridhara maharaja who then supported the GBC's 11 gurus as the next wave of Vishnupada messiahs, and -- as a direct result of his POLICY of support for false gurus -- our people were beaten and killed as a result. No surprise here, he already knew that had happened post 1936. Or what? And some of their group are still calling us aparadhis, knowing this can result in our being beaten and killed? This is vaishnava?, calling the other vaishnavas names that they know in advance can get the other vaishnavas killed?

So they are supporting the:

POLICY of demonizing the vaishnavas,

which causes the violence in the first place? Their POLICY is demonizing us, and they know this can lead to violence, the only question is, why do they think they are authorized to incite violence on other vaishnavas? And if they are inciting violence on the vaishnavas, are they vaishnavas themselves? Srila Prabhupada says, no they are not. The Gaudiya Matha people who posed as gurus after 1936 were often described by him as: envious, snakes, black snakes, poison, fourth class, sudras, cock roach acharyas, bugs biting the king and so many other things said by Srila Prabhupada. Incidentally, when we went to Mayapura in 1970, Srila Prabhupada said, post a guard at my door with a gun, my God brothers might try to HAVE ME KILLED.

What kind of vaishnavas do these things? And the answer is, none of them ever do, this is not vaishnava behavior. Hah hah, also notice -- some of these Gaudiya Matha people talk about their higher "love of God" rasika-ness -- yet -- they are using rhetoric designed to kill the devotees of Krishna? And then they claim to be the servants of Radha? The way to serve Radha is, to foment violence on the other servants of Radha? This is why Srila Prabhupada says, anyone who foments violence on the vaishnavas will have to go into the stone crushing rollers of Yamaraja, and he will be passed through there REPEATEDLY. He will get NO MERCY. Srila Prabhupada says, no one can save this person. He cannot escape this punishment by any means, not even Krishna will save him, he is doomed.

The only good news here, if there is any, it is that the same people (Gaudiya Matha) Srila Prabhupada wanted to have a guard posted since they would kill him, are the identical people who want to kill us. We are in excellent company here, and I am ecstatic to be in that company. ys pd

Please also see: Sridhara follows Ritvik

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Worship Jesus: "vacuous" "no philosophy"

Sridhara folks: The rivik theory itself has little or no philosophical content.

[PADA: Worship of a pure devotee is not the philosphy of the Krishna religion? We need to worship the conditioned souls, deviants, "self-appointed" gurus of the GBC and Gaudiya Matha? First, we needed to worship Sridhara's homosexual guru in 1936? Then, we needed to worship the GBC's "illicit sex with men, women and children" guru - messiahs process (supported by Sridhara maharaja) after 1978? Even the cannibal witch doctor "philosophy" knows ... you cannot worship illicit sex?]

SF: But I certainly agree that the GBC can be philosophically vacuous at times.

[PADA: But the GBC is following Sridhara and his idea that conditioned souls are gurus? And that conditioned souls can vote in more messiahs. Now the Sridhara people are saying the Sridhara idea is not bona fide? Or what?]

SF: I never read their resolution, but on this issue I am surprised they needed one.

[PADA: The GBC writes resolutions saying the worship of pure devotees like Jesus (the ritviks) is the bogus  ritvik idea, and the Sridhara folks are suprised they had to state that? Its obvious, worship of Jesus by the ritvik idea is bogus? Where was this stated by Srila Prabhupada?]

SF: Rather than being a philosophy unto itself, ritvik is a deletion of an aspect of an existing philosophy: the solution to yoga-nasta parampara or literally, "one after another."

[PADA: Right, the Sridhara idea made one bogus guru, then Srila Prabhupada said the result was, another man comes, then another and another to be guru, and this is the result of the Sridhara idea: One bogus messiah after another. And those who object can be beaten and killed. And this is what Sridhara promoted after 1978, one bogus wave of gurus after another, he said the first wave can vote in another wave, and those who dissented, were beaten and killed. So Sridhara is making this deviation one wave after another, yes "one after another" one more wave of bogus gurus, one more wave of beatings and murders of dissenters. Right!]

SF: They have deleted the Gita's solution to the problem they perceive. And their interpretation of an imagined absolute "final order" reads more like a legal document than a philosophical one.

[PADA: The "Final Order" is, my disciples are not fit for sannyasa, so they are not fit to be gurus and messiahs. Srila Prabhupada said Sridhara made "unfit persons" into gurus, and the result was: dissenters (anyone who wanted to worship a bona fide pure devotee) were banned, beaten and killed. Why are we making it that the worshipers of the pure devotee are banned, beaten and killed? And the worship of Jesus is the poison, bogus, rascal, odious deviation too? Go and worship homosexuals or whomever all you want, fine, go attend the Marilyn Monroe look alike contest in the Castro where the homosexuals go, find one of them, and worship him as your next messiah, we have no objection, we applaud that, this would be honest, just quit trying to get us killed for our worship of the pure devotee. Move your cult elsewhere please! ys pd]

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How the Prabhupadanugas will win

The rtiviks are winning this whole dispute anyway. Look at the first  living guru maniac on the block, Tamal Krishna Goswami. Does anyone worship him now? Hardly no one does. OK maybe a few people do. Does anyone even discuss him now? Hardly ever, except to say he is the founder father of the homosexual meassiahs program. Has anyone hardly even heard Tamal's name lately? Nope. He is irrelevant, personna non grata. Nobody now cares for him because he preached that you need a living person, so when he died, people abandoned his program an went elsewhere. His program fizzled.

Gaura Govinda maharaha? I saw e-mails from his group recently, he has maybe fifty followers there, who were calling each other names and complaining their group is "small and always fighting." Does anyone care about him anymore? Nope. Discuss him anymore etc.? Nope. And how many worship him now? Hardly nobody. Look at most of these other gurus like Harikesha, Ramesvara, Bhagavan, Satsvarupa, Ravindra swarupa, Prithu, Rohini Kumar, Trivrikrama and so many others, do they have any substantial following? Hardly any.

Do they have a large following? No way Jose! Look at the empty USA temples, there is hardly anyone there. Berkeley has maybe ten people for the past 15 years, its a ghost town. San Francisco has no temple at all. Los Angeles has some imported people from Latin America the former Soviet Union, even then -- there is not many folks there either. Westerners from the USA are not joining in any numbers, maybey they get a few here and there. OK its dead as a doornail. New York has to run a Bingo hall to collect money, there is not enough devotees there to collect funds (ok book distribution is down to a trickle).

Satsvarupa was living atop a shop in a small apartment with a few people who were writing that "no one is donating funds to the Satsvarupa maintenence program." Duh. Nobody cares for him either. Who wants to donate money to print books like "Sanitorium, how me and my therapist became sexual lovers." Nobody cares. Boston temple has reportly got rats in the basement and not enough money to clean the place up. New Vrndavana is falling aprt, Gita Nagari looks like a trash heap, and one farm sold their cows for slaughter because there was no one left. Their program is dying. Our program is growing because we do not worhip one temporary person for a few years, we worship the eternal pure devotee Srila Prabhupada. So we will  continue to grow, they will continue to die, and when their leaders die look at what happen, their program fizzles, so its just a question of time and we win. ys pd

 
Related articles:

Srila Sridhar Maharaj embraced the Rtvik system established by Srila Prabhupada
Sridhara Maharaja's 'Final Ritvik Order'

The Gaudia Math vs. Iskcon History
Srila Prabhupada on his Godbrothers
Srila Prabhupada Speaks about his Gaudiya Math Godbrothers
Prabhupada's Godbrothers AVOID THEM! [Rupanuga letter]
AVOIDING REPEATING THE GAUDIYA MATHA MISTAKE
Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja

History of Sridhara Swami - Gaudia Math
Sridhara- and Narayana Maharajas
Conditioned soul Sridhara Maharaja versus Srila Prabhupada the Mahabhagavata
Sridhara Maharaja – EXPOSED

Iskcon's eleven bogus successor acaryas
The 11 IskCon socalled Gurus and their deviations
http://harekrsna.org/isklinks.htm

General Board of Complaints gbc1008@aol.com Prabhupadanuga's Austria

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All glories to His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!