PADA-Newsletter December 05
Email: angel108b@yahoo.com
Subject: CNN/ IRM/ Dec 05
Dear Devotees and Readers, Welcome to PADA!
If you do not wish to be on our mailing list let us know. PADA does not necessarily
support all of the statements of writers to this forum.
Many PADA letters are on:
harekrsna.org, so check it out! You can phone PADA editor at 707-477-4102 (California time
zone). thanks PD
==========================
1) Thanks for the question Jo Jo.
2) BERKELEY California. It seems that Grantharaja dasa has quit,
3) BOMBAY: Apparently, some of Radhanatha's goondas got into a fight
4) MAYAPURA INDIA: Government officials are
looking into ISKCON leaders buying property
5) MANCHESTER England. Mukunda dasa (Mark
Whitley) has joined with the GBC's samkirtana newsletter
6) MIAMI USA: Apparently, the "temple president" mortgaged the property,
7) SAN DIEGO: Badrinarayan das has apologized to a few devotees
8) CNN TV Special
9) IRM -- R.I.P. update * Painting One's Self
Into a Corner (courtesy siddhanta.com)
10) Sun Poll Results on "The Lilamrta"
=========================
1) Thanks for the question Jo Jo.
As a matter of fact, no, PADA's editor does not get
depressed about the situation with ISKCON. First of all, we have to consider that even
pure people -- like Jesus -- generally do not turn the whole planet around and fix the
overall deterioration. Worse, the opponents of Jesus (like the Pharisees) appear to
"win" a lot of the time. In other words, "the spiritual master is like the
rain that puts out the blazing forest fire," but mainly for some willing and sincere
people.
As such, a lot of corruption and sometimes "betrayal of the saint" goes on even while the pure devotees are here. And after they leave, various envious people try to cash in on the legacy of the saint (as is predicted in the story of King Puranjana). And the "imitation of guru" deviants might create worse troubles, since these imitators are: "the most dangerous elements in human society." (Isopanisad) Thus the works of the pure devotees are sometimes suppressed and hampered, what to speak then of what us teeny specks can accomplish? Considering that, we have done a lot as minor league barking spiders. And let us not forget that during the middle ages there was massive corruption going on in the name of Jesus, so there is a tendency for deviants to exploit the religious sentiments of the populace, just as the smartas are exploiting in India.
Never mind also that these false gurus are destined for the most obnoxious regions, they still try to usurp the post of pure devotee since time immemorial. As Prabhupada says, they are envious of Krishna and pure devotees. So, if these imitators are envious of us as well, we should thus -- thank our lucky stars -- to be on the side of Krishna. That we have been able to convince a lot of people to worship Prabhupada nonetheless is way beyond what we thought we could do when this all started. Nor did we ever think that we'd be involved in fighting against the GBC's banning, beating, violence, death threats and murders, all emanations of the Sridhara/ Narayana/ GBC's homosexual pedophile buggery worshipping cult. From shastra we learn that from time immemorial, there have been these homosexual worshippers, and they tried to attack AND KILL Lord Brahma some aeons ago. And so these deviants are always trying to worship buggery, and use thuggery to accomplish that. That we are ALSO being attacked places us: on the side of Lord Brahma. And this places the GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari violent homosexual pedophile worshippers on the side: of the demons. So we ended up on the right side, and we should rejoice over that.
Of course Sridhara Maharaja's homosexual guru cult in 1936 also banned, beat and killed the nice and sincere Vaishnavas then as well. Sridhara made it a crime to worship pure devotees, and instead he orchestrated that some of the worshippers of Srila Saraswati would be killed for refusing to worship Sridhara's buggery cult, as occurred. These deviants are always attacking the worship of pure devotees since time immemorial. And Narayana Maharaja says: Sridhara's ideas are good, i.e. no one is allowed to worship pure devotees, rather you must worship violent devotee killing homosexuals, because Narayana Maharaja also worships violent homosexual cults as his idea of messiahs. As such, these Gaudiya Matha deviants know better than any of us how their REAL ideal is to ban, beat and kill sincere devotees, because that is what they orchestrated in post-1936 India. Therefore, Prabhupada warned us over and over, avoid these Gaudiya Matha people who like to worship buggery -- by using thuggery. In other words, not only do these deviants worship homosexuals and pedophiles, they use violence and murders to enforce their cult ideas. This is what they all agree upon, whether GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari, they all clamored in unison, "One has to worship the (living guru?) pedophiles to reach God." Even Gaura Govinda Maharaja told us he has to "work with" that program.
And so, no suprise, the GBC's buggery and thuggery pooja-ites could not contain themselves, so they ran off to Sridhara and Narayana to take lessons on how to worship homosexual pedophiles and devotee murderers, as their deviant clan did after 1936. We never thought we'd be telling many, many, many ISKCON devotees that they were now worshipping the deviant Gaudiya Matha, by supporting/ worshipping child buggery and devotee killing thuggery pooja. And these devotees would be silent: in agreement. "Maunam samyam raksati," in other words all these devotees de facto agreed they were supporting buggery and thuggery pooja. For example when we started saying in 1980 that there is "butt bugger pooja" going on, almost no one really disagreed. They just said it was "offensive language" to point this out. In sum, the GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari clan are mainly worried about "bad language" (i.e. that we are exposing their buggery worship) and not about the banning, beating, torture and killing of the devotees of ISKCON.
So, we have won overall because now even the slowest turtles on the planet like Narayana Maharaja have finally agreed with PADA: that he was wrong to have been the biggest cheerleader of his pedophile cult's worship. And in sum he was wrong to oppose PADA because his policy has been victimizing devotees of Krishna's children. In sum Sridhara and Narayana have no authority to back the buggery pooja party, but since they did that already after 1936, and they supported a violent buggery cult then, what did we expect?
Yet nowadays even most of the followers of GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari also agree that they were wrong to have supported pedophile worship. Thus, we have defeated even the greatest Sanskrit pundits like Sridhara and Narayana camps who have surrendered to the view of PADA, i.e. that we have to worship pure devotees and not the GBC's/ Sridhara's/ Narayana's/ Tripurari's buggery/ thuggery pooja ideas. We have to also realize that even if we can convince one person to worship Prabhupada, then we have done a lot. And since these same class of rascals always wanted to kill Jesus, Prabhupada, Prahlad, Haridasa, and so on, and even kill babies as they did in the day of Kamsa, we are in good company that they also wanted to kill us. This also explains why the GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana worshipped the poisoners of Prabhupada, they are more or less alike with that camp.
Yet since we publicly exposed their buggery and thuggery, even they have had to retreat from support of their wunderbar process, since we have exposed their rascaldom. So this is what the GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana people are only concerned with, we are "using bad language" exposing that they are worshipping banning, beating, molesting and killing the vaishnavas. They have zero concern for their victims, just like Kamsa. So we should feel encouraged, the GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari clan all despised us for our idea that pure devotees need to be worshipped, and that we should not beat, molest and kill the Vaishnavas. Yet, we won overall, we have publicly shown that they are simply buggery and thuggery worshippers, so we forced them to retreat. Thus only some of the GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayan/ Tripurari clan still say we are "offenders," since a few of them still think they did a good job by forcing children to worship buggery and their policy molested thousands of children. Only a small handful of them are still proud of their buggery pooja idea, whereas most of them have retreated and admitted: PADA is correct.
Narayana Maharaja had said that our worship of pure devotees idea is (ritvik) "poison," but Prabhupada already told us these Gaudiya Matha deviants have a tendency to support the worship of buggery and thuggery. They already did that by supporting the Gaudiya Matha's post 1936 deviants, although they later graduated after 1977 to supporting the worship of child buggery, along with their sisya clones like Trivrikrama et al. So there are always these types of deviant worshippers and we have to defeat them by preaching, and we are. Yet most of the devotees have now left ISKCON, and they do not support either the GBC or the small Narayana Maharaja cult. And we have made headway in the Narayana camp recently, and some of his big leaders also abandoned that matha -- creating a tail spin in his operation.
Moreover, PADA is also changing ISKCON itself. Right now, for example, we welcome new PADA members -- LOKANATHA SWAMI, HARI SAURI DASA and their group -- who just now made a proposal to the GBC for the March 2006 meeting: that ISKCON should worship Prabhupada exclusively, exactly as PADA has stated all along. We also beat our shoes upon some folks like Adridharana for 20 years, and so even became convinced of this point, and he shook our hand and told us he was finally "with us" in 1997. And now we are convincing the likes of huge buggery and thuggery pooja advocates like Lokanatha and Hari Sauri. So we are gaining traction all the time, whereas the homosexual pedophile guru lineage lovers like Badrinarayan dasa are dwindling and getting weaker. Yet always remember, that even Jesus himself did not put out all the fires of this material world. This is not easily done, and we are nowhere near their caliber. So we have to at least try to convince a few individuals, that is our capacity. And then we'll not be so upset that we cannot change the universe overnight. Thanks pd
2) BERKELEY California.
It seems that Grantharaja dasa has quit, and left the temple
"for good." (?) Now, there are about three and a half people running the place,
whereas Prabhupada said we would need at least 50 brahmanas -- just to do the deity
worship there. But local guru Trivrikrama has chased off all the non-pedophile guru
lineage worshippers. Trivrikrama does not want fifty brahmanas, he wants a few pervert
bone heads who worship buggery and thuggery.
A very strict policy! Trivrikama says:
(a) that God's pure devotees/ parampara members/
successor gurus are (were or could have been) child buggery molesters, and indeed criminal
pedophiles / orchestrators of the murders of vaishnavas.
And (b) that the reinstators of
such pedophiles "voted him in" at the same time they recoronated their children
molester/ children torturers as their gurus. So they only accept pedophile guru
certifications.
And (c) all current GBC gurus are like him, voted in by such pedophile
lineages. OK, everyone is leaving, even Grantharaja cannot take it any longer. Who cares?
Most of the Berkeley devotees live outside and they mostly agree with PADA anyway, so we
don't need these GBC buggery and thuggery people for anything.
By the way, we need Trivrikrama's karmi name for a Berkeley University student media writer who has inquired about his pedophile guru lineage status/ certification. The only good news is that after Kamsa aggressed children, he went down in history as a demon, but the GBC wants to out-do Kamsa, so they poison pure devotees and torture children, so they will go down in history as worse than Kamsa.
Trivrikrama's two violent thugs in Berkeley will harass anyone who does not accept his pedo-pooja lineage worship process. As soon as one enters the Berkeley temple door, Trivrikrama's angry and violent goondas want to know, "Do you accept that Trivrikrama is a guru -- because he was voted in at known pedophile's recoronation"? As soon as we say no, peodphiles are not and were not gurus, and that pedophile guru recoronations are bogus, we are beaten out of the Berkeley temple door with shoes, and so the whole town has vacated the place -- because no one wants to worship their homosexual pedophile pooja along with Trivrikrama, who proudly thinks that because he has surrendered to the child buggery worshippers -- he is a saint. And he is, on the planet of buggery worship.
To sum then, Trivrikrama is still saying that child buggery is found in Krishna's lineage of successors and indeed he is proud that he has a pedophile guru certification, thus many conclude he is either: a pedophile, a lover of pedophiles, or for sure he is a worshipper of pedophile lineages. As someone pointed out, it will take billions of years for Trivrikrama to be elevated enough to worship a cockroach. Agreed. PD
3) BOMBAY:
Apparently, some of Radhanatha's goondas got into a fight with the local
police and they got whacked with night sticks and they were arrested.
4) MAYAPURA INDIA:
Government officials are looking into ISKCON leaders buying property
using fraudulent tactics. Many devotees are hoping some of these leaders will go to jail
as a result.
5) MANCHESTER England.
Mukunda dasa (Mark Whitley) has joined with the GBC's samkirtana
newsletter in fighting George Bush's alleged bombing of the trade towers (this is on some
nut case's web sites). These fools think the USA bombed their own people, and/or that no
airplanes were actually involved. Rather, these airplanes never existed or were faked
holograms. In any event notice: these fellows are alike in that they never mention any
concern, what to speak of an actual practical plan, for how they will assist the ex-kulis.
They are only meditating on George Bush.
They always ignore the plight of the ex-gurukulis, as such they ignore telling us how they are going to EVER help the ex-gurukulis. What is their plan to compensate the ex-gurukulis?, and so on and so forth. Rather, they are mainly concerned with George Bush's alleged misdeeds, rather than ISKCON or it's children. So yes, the GBC's official newsletter and Sanat and Mukunda are all meditating on George Bush, instead of ISKCON and its citizens, as they have been for the past 25 years. No wonder then that Windle Turley had to help their victims, the ISKCON kids, because barely anyone one else even noticed there was a problem, and they still do not.
6) MIAMI USA:
Apparently, the "temple president" mortgaged the property, then
blooped, taking several hundred thousands of dollars. Nice fellows the GBC chooses for its
leaders.
7) SAN DIEGO:
Badrinarayan das has apologized to a few devotees who wanted to start a
health center for retired devotees, because he was complaining that one of them had
married a divorced woman. So, if you marry a divorced woman, that is striclty verbotten.
Whereas, if you claim to be as pure as Jesus and have "illicit sex with men, women
and children" (without grease either) then Badrinarayan dasa will fall off his seat
and declare you are the sum total of the demigods. And he will lick your used kleenexs off
the ground. Badri has a strict policy, he only worships his "pure devotional"
butt puddlers -- suck sessions -- and nothing else will do!
Well, there is a nice planet that these pedophile lineage lover / worshippers will go to, like Badri, Svavas, and their whole company of fiends have done for the past 25 years. As soon as they see the reinstators of pedophile's "Vishnupadas," then Badri and Svavas fall off their seats and lick these pedophile worshipper's booties, thinking they have met Jesus. And Svavas has goondas around the Los Angeles temple who will beat up anyone who does not worship his sex with children lineages. So the Yamaduttas will beat these people down when they try to approach Vaikuntha, and for every single child they orchestrated malingering, they will be bitten by the dogs of Yama repeatedly. No one can orchestrate molesting / murder of Krishna's own family members without being severely punished by Yamaraja, that is a fact. Then again, they will be on trial for their worshipping the poisoners of pure devotees, so they will be lost for the duration, Ys pd
--------------------------------
8) CNN TV Special
[PADA: Many people, oddly, have tried to blame PADA for the "bad publicity" surrounding the "mis-treatment of children in ISKCON." Yet we were amongst the first people to get kicked out of ISKCON in 1979 -- mainly -- for our stating that children should NEVER participate in the GBC's corrupt gurukulas. We announced that publicly and openly to the GBC's then "guru" Jayatirtha, his clan, the GBC itself, and to many rank and file devotees, that we would not have our children worshipping these post-1977 bogus gurus. And we were kicked out of ISKCON for our refusing to recognize the validity of these bogus guru -- kulas.
And we further pointed out that for children to be forced to worship deviants would create a malefic impact upon them, especially later on in life. This has also come to pass, some of the ex-children now complain that when they hear the name "Krishna" it makes them feel sick, and some even say they want to vomit, because they associate Krishna with the abuses they received under the GBC's school system. This has also occurred in the Catholic Church, some of the abused or molested children say that they feel badly when they hear "the name of Jesus."
So it is a little silly to claim that PADA caused ANY of the problems for these children or the subsequent bad publicity -- because we were not even in the movement when the worst abuses took place. Moreover, we had PUBLICLY complained that children were being forced to worship conditioned souls as pure devotees and therefore the whole ISKCON "school system" was bogus and therefore not competent to facilitate children. We had said that "one has to worship pure devotees," and we said that all along, despite all the vociferous bogus propaganda from the GBC, Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja and all the other similar sub-violent henchmen who unitedly forced children to worship their pedophile guru cult.
Of interest, a few followers of Sridhara keep writing to tell me that Sridhara Maharaja was not aware of the faliures of these gurus. Yet it was (Su) Dheera Krishna was sent to India in 1980 to discuss with Sridhara all these problems; such as Jayatirtha's 1979 illicit sex and drugs; The June 1980 actual resignation of Ramesvara; The December 1980 admission by Hansadutta and Tamal that there was no appointment; And the many other criminal incidents involving police etc. Even the beating of Jadurani in 1980 did not upset Sridhara at all, he said we still have to back the beaters / attempted murderers / of women and so he "re-instated" Tamal and Hamsadutta, nevermind Hansadutta was arrested with a machine gun in his car. Nothing to this day has ever convinced the Sridhara clan deviants like Tripurari that the GBC people should not have been viewed as gurus by Sridhara.
They still think this was all the symptoms of "Radha's loving exchanges." Sridhara then said none should protest/ complain about his child molester pooja, while Narayana Maharaja simply said that anyone who does not worship his child sex with children pooja is "poison" and so on and so forth. So we were battling not only the GBC butt, their child buggery pooja "advisors."
And yet our complaint was generally well known all over ISKCON: that persons like myself, Yasodanandana, Giriraja, Mahamsa, Jadurani and many others were protesting these false gurus (and thus: their corrupt schools). In other words, we pointed out EARLY ON that the GBC was deviating and victimizing devotees, and that the gurukulas were corrupt and based on a false platform. And we pointed that out all along. We said that the first principle of the guru -- kula is that the children are supposed to be worshipping the pure devotee guru. Therefore, when the GBC made their false gurus -- the whole "guru-school" principle was broken. Of course, as we see it was worse than broken. It was ripe for creating abusive conditions towards the children. Again, this is another item we pointed out, that since the GBC were prone to deviations since 1966, we should not be forcing our ISKCON children to worship people who are HIGHLY evident to be prone to deviations. This process would IMPERIL the children who are worshipping deviants as Jesus-like saints.
And in 1980 we began to ask things like, aren't some of these "gurus" homosexuals, and would not "worship of homosexuals and deviants" create a homosexual's and deviant's influx -- into every nook and corner of ISKCON -- based upon the process of "one becomes what one worships." And we began to publicly question: Why are people like Kirtanananda always riding around in their cars with young boys on their laps all day long; And/or young boys all over their vyasa - seats; And/or young boys in their cottages all the time and so on? This charade was publicly known, by the way, since the other GBC leaders saw Kirtanananda doing this, and thus none of the leaders can argue -- they never knew?
Yet to our shock and surprise, many of the rank and file devotees became very upset with our idea of resisting the GBC's bogus gurus, their "guru's" apparent attraction for little boys, and our open scheme of pulling our children from the GBC's schools and placing them in public schools. And we went on, protesting these false gurus and their result: ISKCON's ever-deteriorating projects including farms, gurukulas, and so on and so forth. And then the GBC decided the best way to handle our complaints was the threaten to kill us. And they indeed killed some of our associates and suppressed PADA with very aggressive tactics. And the GBC cadre would have killed us had it not been for the intervention of the FBI and officer Joe Sanchez. So they wanted people to worship pedophiles and they would kill people who did not worship pedophiles, yet notice, Anuttama says they did not know what was going on. What a liar! They knew all along we were protesting ... !!!
Meanwhile, most of the rank and file simply would not step forward to join us, or even to simply back us up with some financial support or etc. and help us reign in the problems. So there was/ is very little a few devotees like us could do, with menial / low paying jobs as our entire back up system, little support from the devotee community, and thus very little fighting capacity. Of course fools like Sanat and Mukunda still say we should not even have had karmi jobs to support our protest of their buggery and thuggery program. They wanted no protest of their child molesting process, so they are angry that we halted their mass molesting program.
Anyway, what could a few peasants do to upend a multi-million dollar hydra-headed violent guru cult, which banned, beat and killed dissenters? And events had come to the point of killing us non - homosexual pedophile worshippers, and very nearly to the point, of killing us?
Fast forward -- to the 1990s, a point where the victimized, sometimes starved beat and molested children were starting to commit suicide, and we realized that it was mainly the "denial" put forward by many of the ISKCON adults and leaders that was causing these children to feel so despondent. Thank God then that Windle Turley came forward to save these children from suicidal tendencies, since no one else did! ys PADA
CNN SPECIAL (On television 12/13/05):
KYRA PHILLIPS: Hare Krishna. It's a name that evokes that images of hippie-like devotees who sold books at airports years ago, chanted mantras, and danced in the streets. But there was a much different side to the Krishnas at that time, a side that was kept out of the public eye. It was a world of brutal psychological and physical abuse that targeted the most helpless members of that organization. Here's CNN investigative reporter Drew Griffin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):
Anya Pourchot says she
escaped the Hare Krishnas at 17. It's been 20 years, but she says she still gets
physically sick the moment she hears the chanting.
ANYA POURCHOT, VICTIM: I usually have to just run so that I can keep myself together.
GRIFFIN: Joe Fournier, who was brought into the Krishnas at the age of 7, says it's taken years for him to be able to talk about what happened.
JOE FOURNIER, VICTIM: Very painful. Yeah. Gone through years of therapy to come out of it, yeah, to survive.
GRIFFIN: What they and hundreds of other survived were childhoods inside a movement that in the 1960 and '70s attracted thousands of youthful seekers. Followers were expected to devote their lives to pure living, pleasing God and chanting praise. But behind the saffron robes, shaved heads and happy songs, many hare Krishnas were hiding a dark secret -- a secret kept inside the Krishna boarding schools, where the children of devotees were sent for training.
This lawsuit, filed in Texas in 2001, pulled back the veil from Krishna society, and according to the attorney who filed it, exposed a movement plagued by violence, abuse and sexual exploitation of children.
WINDLE TURLEY, ATTORNEY: This is the worst case of abuse of children I have ever seen.
GRIFFIN: Dallas attorney Windle Turley sued the International Society of Krishnas on behalf of 92 people, who complained of years of emotional and physical abuse.
TURLEY: When you took a little 6-year-old girl who has not behaved, and for her punishment she is locked in a dark closet, told that it's filled with rats, and that the rats will eat her if she whimpers. And she's told to stand on this wooden crate and not cry, and stay there for hours, that kind of terrorizing as a way of enforcing discipline is just beyond the thought of anything civil.
POURCHOT: I just remember walking down a hallway, and having this horrible experience of hearing the blood-curling scream of a child. And all the other children shuffling around like it was just -- you know, something that happened every day.
GRIFFIN (on camera): Did it happen every day?
POURCHOT: Oh, yeah.
GRIFFIN: And it happened to you?
POURCHOT: Oh, yeah.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Anya Pourchot was 4 when her parents joined the movement, whose teachings discouraged family life and parental affection. Anya was sent to a Krishna boarding school. By 16, she found herself promised to a 32-year-old man she didn't know.
(on camera): He raped you?
POURCHOT: Yeah. He convinced -- well, he convinced me to masturbate him. And it was not a very nice experience.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): The lawsuit details the claims made by the Krishna children. Beatings, children forced to live and sleep in filth, to eat garbage. Children denied medical care, and some tied up and placed in trash barrels. And according to Fournier, constant sexual abuse.
FOURNIER: Fondled, raped, you know, stuff like that, yeah. Pretty bad.
GRIFFIN: Fournier was just 9 years old when he was sent to a Krishna boarding school in Dallas. Within a month of his arrival, he says, the nightly visits began.
FOURNIER: You had to pretend you weren't awake or conscious or something, to survive it, you know.
GRIFFIN: The International Society of Krishna Consciousness admits no one was looking out for the children. During the 1970s and '80s, when most of the abuse is alleged, children were sent away to boarding schools so parents could focus on begging and recruiting other converts.
TURLEY: And they were literally asked to give up all parental control over their children. And that -- great efforts were made to sever the parental relationship. GRIFFIN (on camera): With their parents out of the way or off raising money, the children were sent to boarding schools, like the one run here in Dallas. The victims say this is where some of the worst abuse took place.
(voice-over): In what the organization now admits was a horrible lapse in judgment, the Krishna converts unfit for other duty were the ones assigned to watch the children.
ANUTTAMA DASA, INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS: Too many of them were former hippies and people that were trying to get away from social restraints, and things like that. And were looking for an opportunity to kind of find maybe some easy solutions to some of the problems that they faced.
GRIFFIN: What sets this story apart from so many other lawsuits involving religious organizations and abuse is what the Krishnas decided to do this past spring.
Krishna communications director Anuttama Dasa says the society admits it was wrong, admits the abuse took place in many of its school, and has agreed to pay compensation for the horrible abuse. The society is also begging for forgiveness.
DASA: This is really part of an ongoing healing process. We're organizing meetings around the country, and later in Europe and probably in India, with people in leadership positions within the organization, to meet with the young people, to hear more about what else we need to do to try to help them, to offer our own personal, genuine apologies to them for the suffering that they'd undergone.
GRIFFIN: Fearing the impact of a multi-million-dollar lawsuit, six temples of the Krishnas declared bankruptcy. In the reorganization, nearly $10 million will be set aside for victims. More is being sought from insurance companies, and across the globe, Krishna temples are collecting even more money.
The Krishnas have opened the door to anyone with claims of abuse. Since the original lawsuit, more than 500 former Krishna children have come forward, and, says Windle Turley, the Krishnas have done what no other religious organization charged with sexual abuse has done, at least not to this extent: They Krishnas, he says, have truly apologized.
TURLEY: We were wrong. You were entrusted to our care. We didn't take care of you. We are to blame and we're profoundly sorry. That was a real apology. And to many of these children, that was just as important as the amount of money they're going to recover in this settlement.
GRIFFIN: Joe Fournier says the apology has helped, but insists the true abusers and predators of his childhood have gotten away. Anya Pourchot says no apology will ever be enough. Her childhood is lost forever. She struggles to retrieve what she can for a book she is writing. It's titled, "Traded for Cattle." It's a reference to how the Krishnas handed her into an abuser's arms, for the promise of a cow.
POURCHOT: I hope that this never happens to anyone else again.
GRIFFIN: The Hare Krishnas say they have that same hope, and a new vow to make sure it doesn't.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: The Krishnas plan to be paying out damages from their own pockets for years to come, not just to compensate the victims for their pain, but also, they say, so current members of society will feel some pain, too, as a way of preventing abuse in the future.
PHILLIPS: Now this is such a closed society, as we know. How do we know that the abuse is not going on right now?
GRIFFIN: They have set up -- the Krishna society has set up an office, much like the Catholic Church has, reporting any troubles, any inconsistencies. Also teaching their own members about abuse, what it is, how to look out for it and then urging parents to pay particular attention to their children when their children are saying something. And also they've closed all the boarding schools in the United States.
PHILLIPS: They're all closed.
GRIFFIN: All of them.
PHILLIPS: So I'm still curious, Anya, does she still talk with her parents? Are her parents still in the....
GRIFFIN: Interesting enough, her mother and a sister, an adult sister, are still members of the Hare Krishna Society. Limited contact there. Anya has nothing to do with the Krishnas. She says she really gets physically sick any time she sees or hears them, but she does intermittently talk with her relatives.
PHILLIPS: Wow. I don't blame her, after she says what she went through. Drew Griffin, thank you so much. We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
10) IRM RIP update
* Painting One's Self Into a Corner (courtesy siddhanta.com)
Over at the IRM (ISKCON Revival Movement) Forums is a thread about ritvik initations and why the IRM is not giving any. The thread ironically started with this question, "Can I get Ritvik-initiated online?" If, as per the IRM, "interplanetary-diksa" is possible, then why not internet-diksa? The "why not," it turns out, happens to be partially a result of their radical insistence of the need of the guru to give a direct order before disciples can themselves accept disciples.
[PADA: Correct, the IRM not only does not want to establish ritvik initiations, anyone else who tries to give these initiations is immediately checked, harassed and villified by the IRM. This tactic only benefits the IRM's behind the scene pals, the bogus gurus, and of course the Narayana Maharaja camp etc., which leads people to believe the IRM are GBC spies/ plants/ paid lackeys.
As the IRM told PADA in 1997, they want to work WITH the current GBC (the bogus ISKCON gurus) --- and "reform" them. And this is still their plan: they still insist they need to WORK WITH the likes of Badrinarayana, Ravindra Swarupa and other members of the homosexual pedophile guru lineage and so on. This is also why the IRM leaders are always found to be meeting with the likes of pedophile lineage certified "gurus" such as Gopal Krishna, Bir Krishna and others, and they never have time to meet with the worshippers of Srila Prabhupada. To sum, if one worships: illicit sex with men, women and children, then only will the IRM team's Yaduraja, Bhaja Hari, Krishna Kanta and others lick your used kleenex off the floor and sit at your feet.]
* One commentator on the thread replies, "The IRM is not offering ritvik initiations at this time, either online or offline. The reason for this is because Srila Prabhupada's system requires that we have a bonafide GBC to appoint the ritvik priests. Because the current GBC in ISKCON are not bona fide, due to not following Srila Prabhupada's orders we have to either A. Replace them or B. Reform them.
[PADA: In 1997 we told the IRM that the GBC -- cannot -- be reformed and that they need to be replaced, but the IRM has no interest in that process because they insisted they wanted to work with the corrupt GBC. We told them over and over and over, we cannot "reform" the members of the pedophile guru lineage and make them "the new ritviks." And so Krishna Kanta "declared war" on PADA (and all the other original ritvik advocates) because he was always in league with the corrupt deviants. Krishna Kanta has never publicly explained why we "need to work with" the corrupt GBC? The IRM has never explained why they are always harassing, insulting, villifying and in sum checking the process of ritvik initiations, just as badly as the GBC itself is doing?]
* IRM: At this point in time it seems that option A is more likely.
[PADA: What! This is totally bogus. We had already told the IRM, all along in the 1980s, and again in 1997, and all along since then, that the GBC have to be replaced and the IRM has consistently, i.e. ALWAYS, rejected our plan. And the IRM still villifies the ritviks because they still want us to join them and "work with" the corrupt GBC. At this point in time, the IRM is just as much "at war with the ritviks/ PADA" as they ever have been, since they were dedicated GBC servants from 1977-1997. Except that ... the IRM lost many of their best manpower over to our side since many of their senior members quit the IRM to help PADA with the poison issue.]
* So please be patient - there is no rush to get initiated. Srila Prabhupada waited eleven years after he met his guru to take diksa initiation, so we should also not be so hasty to get a spiritual name."
Sudama. "RE: Can I get Ritvik-initiated online?"
2 Nov. 2005 12:55 pm.
ISKCON Revival Movement. 27 Nov 2005.
http://iskconirm.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=1160#1160
* Offering initations outside of the system they say Srila Prabhupada set up would certainly damage their credibility. If Srila Prabhupada never ordered any of his disciples to themselves accept disciples, he also never ordered anyone to accept disciples on his behalf outside of the system the IRM says Srila Prabhupada set up. Going ahead with ritvik initiations without taking over ISKCON's managerial structure itself would raise the question as to why they had a disagreement at all with ISKCON.
[PADA: Bingo! This is the question that is always being begged, "Why is the IRM dependent upon the GBC"? At all? If Ravindra Swarupa scratches his head this morning, that gives the IRM the signal to go ahead to act? Why is the IRM dependent upon the corrupt GBC? And so it seems -- they are not really offering anything separate from the (bogus) GBC? For certain, the IRM has hampered and harassed the ritvik initiation process, so they are certainly with the GBC more than they are separate.
And since the IRM idea is a sort of corporate restructure and management reform, what is the difference between the IRM's corporate mentality and the GBC's? Srila Prabhupada did not care for any corporate structure or re-structure, he simply said, his followers should preach. Why do we need to first "reform" corrupt people -- before -- we can preach? Worse, any attempt to build a NEW and INDEPENDENT structure of ritvik initiations / preaching effort is always sabotaged by the IRM, while they are sitting and having tea and crumpets with the corrupt ones.
And of course, PADA and those of us who are preaching independent of the GBC are scoffed at by the IRM -- because they STILL think -- we need to work WITH the corrupt GBC. Yet none of the Prabhupadanugas wants to work with the people who -- poisoned Prabhupada? No wonder then that the IRM is writing position papers, acting as the chief pro-GBC apologists for the Tamal clan, by fully supporting the GBC on the poison case. In fact, some argue that the GBC ordered the IRM to defend them on this issue and Krishna Kanta is faithfully serving the corrupt GBC because they are working for the GBC behind the scenes, while only pretending to be independent. The good news is that many/ most other devotees are catching on to this issue and seeing the compromised position of the IRM.]
* It would all but remove theology as a significant dimension of their disagreement with ISKCON authority and reduce the conflict to that of a raw power struggle.
[PADA: Correct. We told the IRM in 1997 that their idea of a physical take over of the ISKCON properties would be viewed mainly as a mundane "property" take over attempt and not a preaching effort. Of course, had they really wanted to "take over" they would have helped us with the CRIMINAL issues such as embezzling, molesting, poison issues etc. and made a criminal correction assault on the corrupt GBC. Thus the IRM really are not, REALLY, trying to take over very seriously, because they are in league with the GBC ideologically. This of course has made many folks comment that since Adri was a servant of the GBC for so long, his hands are dirty, and so he cannot fight them on the criminality issue because he is implicated in these actions. Of course Adri has complained to PADA that some people have linked him to the poison issue as an alleged accomplice, well jeepers, wonder why that has occurred?]
* Going ahead with ritvik initations without ISKCON's management voting to have them would also damage the credibility of the IRM because the IRM has interpreted Srila Prabhupada's final will and testament, a legal document, to be also relevant to future initations. The problem is that because the authority for giving initiations would be closely bound to the legal existence of ISKCON, persistent refusal of ISKCON management to cooperate, what to speak of the legal dissolution of ISKCON, would also result in a permanent inability for the IRM to offer any ritvik initiations. This seems to be the thinking current among IRM elites.
[PADA: Correct. This IS the number one criticism of our forwarding the poison case by the IRM, that the poison case would "destroy" the ISKCON corporation. So the IRM is only interested in corporate "bricks and stones" and not the truth, or in obtaining justice for the kulis, or in justice for Prabhupada and so on. So the IRM is trying to "protect the corporation," but they are really protecting the GBC elites and keeping them in power as false gurus in the process, and of course the IRM is at the top of the list of defenders of the poisoners of pure devotees.]
* "What looks like a great way to give a quick jump-start to the IRM, eg, giving initiations right away, would seriously damage our cause. There are already several splinter groups who are doing this, yet none of them are able to work together cooperatively.
[PADA: Oh swell, now the IRM is dependent on the actions of the "splinter groups"? Why can't the move without the sanction of the GBC or the alleged splinter groups? They say that people must get ritvik initiations, then stop that process? Apart from that, notice that the IRM says that the process of ritvik initiations is the action of bogus "splinter groups" and NOT the order of Prabhupada! Never mind that, members of the IRM are totally split on the poison issue and other issues, and it is the IRM itself that is splintered?]
* Be patient, grasshopper. We are building something that will last for 9500 more years
after we are gone. A few more years will not make a huge difference."
Sudama. 30 Oct
2005 4:20 pm.
ISKCON Revival Movement. Nov 27 2005
http://iskconirm.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=1191#1191
[PADA: But the IRM has not built anything, except splintering within its own group. Former big leaders and supporters of the IRM were kicked out of the IRM by Krishna Kanta, when the poison issue started. So it is the IRM which is splintering, whereas we gained many of the former IRM people after they were kicked out of the IRM by jack booter sub-violent thugs like Krishna Kanta.]
* They have painted themselves into a corner, and it is not yet clear how they are going to paint themselves out of it. Although they predict another revolution of ritvikism within ISKCON's management, the possibility of that revolution happening within, say, anyone's present life time is something close to nil.
[PADA: Agreed, the main body of the GBC are only interested in worshipping homosexual pedophile lineage supporters like Satsvarupa and Hrdayanana, and/or that group's biggest henchmen supporters like Umapati, Radhanatha, Kuladri, Tapah Punjah etc., or those voted in at pedophile recornations like Trivrikrama etc.]
* IRM members are as sure of their hoped for revolution within ISKCON just as members of Christian millennial cults were sure that prophesies they believed in would be fulfilled within their lifetimes. Instead, the millennial cultists lived to see those prophesies shown to be untrue. Because these millennial prophesies were, in the end, unfulfilled, the cults that reposed so much faith in them usually dissolved. Somewhat like the millennial cultists, IRM members are sure to be disappointed -- in their lifetimes they won't see the revolution they presently hope for, and that will likely result in the IRM's eventual dissolution.
[PADA: The IRM is already dissolving and many people are writing to us saying that the whole thing is a bogus show boat of Krishna Kanta's, and worse, people say he never attends programs or performs devotional functions, just like the GBC's gurus are hiding out.]
* The IRM could avert this outcome if it makes fundamental changes to its core theological ideas--changes that would allow it to establish ritvik priests independent of ISKCON's legal existence. Yet if they make such profound changes--even for something as pragmatic as survival--then they will have seriously damaged their claim to be authentically representing Srila Prabhupada.
[PADA: Right. The IRM thought that they could invade the GBC lands with merely propaganda (not addressing the criminality) and win over the GBC. And then they would be the heros of ISKCON and take it over. But instead, the IRM has harassed all the other Prabhupadanugas and not got any support from the big GBC leaders, and since they did not address the criminal aspect they stalled in their attack. So they need to change, or remain stalled and indeed losing people ... as the IRM people continue to drift off to PADA because these former IRM agree with us and not Krishna Kanta on the poison issue. Thanks pd]
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10) Sun Poll Results on "The Lilamrta"
BY: SUN STAFF
Dec 02, USA (SUN) Those readers following the recent commentary in the “It's Taboo, Prabhu” Sun Blog have been apprised of our feelings on the subject of Satsvarupa Goswami. Considering that our central theme is Srila Prabhupada status as the Sampradaya Acarya, there is good reasoning behind an intense dislike for the "Lilamrta". Admittedly, we chose this set of poll questions for that very reason.
Poll #1 - Does the Lilamrta depict Srila Prabhupada as a sadhana-siddha or a nitya-sidda?
As in all polls, we are most interested to observe the predictable party line split. In Poll #1 (see chart, below), we can safely assume that the 58% who feel the Lilamrta depicts Srila Prabhupada as a sadhana-siddha also know that this is an incorrect depiction. An unusually high percentage voted "Not Sure" (29%), which is not surprising. This is evidence of the exact problem being addressed here - that most devotees become contaminated by reading the Lilamrta.
There is little or no philosophical discussion within the Vaisnava community today, nor has there been in our recent past, concerning the differentiation between sadhana-bhaktas and nitya-siddhas. The designated categories of Vaisnavas found in our teachings are of three types: nitya, sadhana and kripa. With respect to the latter two siddhas, one presupposes that the successful aspiring bhakta needed to take their present bodily form due to the fact that in their previous life, they were in some state of illusion. All bhaktas who reach “siddha” status never again fall down, consequently at that enlightened point in time they become eternally “nitya”. In that sense, we read in sastra that they are all the same. However, that after the fact "sameness" does not mean that there is not an important philosophical distinction to be made about the state of the bhakta prior to his reaching the nitya platform. The big question before us today is whether of not Srila Prabhupada was materially conditioned when he took birth, or whether he was sent by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu to execute the mission that he so successfully undertook. It would be foolish to say that this distinction doesn't matter.
As the present time, the diksa guru tattva being promoted as absolute by both the Gaudiya Matha and ISKCON is modeled on the supposition that everyone is starting off as a sadhana bhakta, including those transcendental personalities we designate as being Sampradaya Acaryas: Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, and A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
Poll #2 - Do you think the Lilamrta is a product of the Zonal Acarya system?
In Poll# 2, the shifting vote is most interesting. It appears that the "Not Sure" voters in the first poll have now swung over to the "No" column, supporting the idea that Satsvarupa's writing of the Lilamrta was not done with an aim to support the position taken by the Zonal Acaryas. The recent Sun Blog mentioned above expresses the view that Satsvarupa's participation was for that purpose. Clearly, Satsvarupa has an uncanny ability to maintain his saintly persona despite an avalanche of proof to the contrary.
There is so little information or historical reality within ISKCON today surrounding the Zonal Acarya era that it's very difficult for those who came to Krsna Consciousness after that period to understand what it really means and the significance of its implementation. To them it's just history. In fact, the Zonal Acarya scheme was a serious siddhantic deviation and expressed a complete lack of realization of Srila Prabhupada's spiritual position. That consciousness demonstrates the mentality of the persons who implemented it, and must therefore be assumed to underlie everything that came after it. There is no question that Satsvarupa was one of the key architects of the Zonal Acarya system. More than ample proof exists on the matter, coming straight from the GBC themselves.
Poll #3 - Is Satsvarupa's writing style in Lilamrta in line with Vaisnava literary tradition?
Here, the only consistent number is the 16% "Yes" vote, which is in line with what we assume to be the 100% loyal ISKCON block. Those who usually vote as independents, who we would assume to show a stronger "No" vote, are actually voting "Not Sure" or "Doesn't Matter". In face, the combined "Not Sure" and "Doesn't Matter" vote exactly equal the "No" vote. This is quite interesting because it shows there's very little awareness as to the spiritual criterion or level of advancement that is required in order for one to be qualified to properly present someone of Srila Prabhupada's status. There are many philosophical examples of this criterion to be found in sastra. In the Caitanya-caritamrta, for example, the status of Krsnadasa Kaviraj is elaborately and properly presented by the Sampradaya Acaryas, who make clear his ability to present Lord Caitanya's pastimes accurately. Bona fide biographies of other Sampradaya Acaryas demonstrate the mood and the style for which our tradition is known. Unfortunately, a good percentage of independent devotees are still in a quandary as to what constitutes a proper presentation of someone of Srila Prabhupada's status. This can only indicate one of two things: they don't understand the tradition, or they don't understand Srila Prabhupada to be worthy of being presented on that level.
Poll #4 - Should the Lilamrta be considered to be on the level of sastra?
The numbers here seem predictably consistent, with an even lower number of "Yes" votes than on the previous poll. This indicates that even those loyal to the institution don't think the Lilamrta is on the level of sastra. Regardless, we find that on many people's bookshelves, the Lilamrta is given equal status with all of Srila Prabhupada's books. In many instances, new people are given the Lilamrta to read even before they are given Srila Prabhupada's books. The Lilamrta is often quoted by preachers as if it was sastra, and many of the web biographies of Srila Prabhupada we find on ISKCON sites today drawn heavily on Lilamrta content and mood. All this indicates that there's either a lack of realization as to what qualifies literature to be considered sastra, as evidenced by the 14% "Not Sure" vote, or there's a lack of realization as to the actual level of consciousness the author had when he wrote the book, as evidenced by the 12% "Yes" vote.
Today we also find an ever-growing number of biographies, journals, and diaries authored by older devotees who are sharing their pastimes with and realizations about Srila Prabhupada. These literary creations, like the Lilamrta, tend to be given sastra-like status by many sentimentalists. Preachers often quote from these books in classes, so there is no wonder post-samadhi recruits have adopted an attitude of being unquestioning in regards to these speculative products, which are produced by conditioned living entities. This would also appear to be a significant contributing factor for the “Not Sure” voters.
Poll #5 - Is it proper to characterize the pure devotee as "sick and penniless"?
Here, the "Yes" vote numbers are quite consistent with the two previous polls. Most interestingly, it appears that a surprising number of the independent voters are still "Not Sure" on this point. Like previous polls, this goes to the question of how someone of Srila Prabhupada's status should be presented so as to philosophically differentiate the transcendental existence of a nitya-siddha from that of a conditioned soul. The consistent philosophical conclusion given in our sastra is that the status of such an elevated personality is inconceivable. When trying to understand devotees on this level, one has to constantly be reminded that their existence is inconceivable to us, and an author who is presenting them has to keep reminding the reader that this is the case. To speculatively present them as demonstrating some mundane 'negative' emotions or circumstance is, by definition, offensive.
THE END
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Satsvarupas Lilamrita "Planting the Weed"