Recent PADA newsletters are available all the time at:
http://blog.myspace.com/52199499. PADA news is an information service for
the devotees of ISKCON. We do not always endorse all the letters we get
from others. Nor can we independently verify each and every statement found
in letters to PADA. And sometimes -- we write spoof for comic relief. Let
us know if you do not wish to receive this news letter. Thanks Puranjana
dasa 707-477-4102
===================
1) The Problem With Gaudiya Matha / Rocana Pt. 2
2) Sally Kirkland Chants HARE KRISHNA on TV! BY: GADADHARA DASA (+ Nick
Nolte mentioned)
3) More for Our Collective Consideration BY: PRAGHOSA DASA
4) Sarvo
===================
PADA's new music: http://myspace.com/trancelooper
"Someone says that I've been poisoned."
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QrYNDdcBKDg
Poison whispers: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OzyT98NLIUk !
01) Archives of Srila Prabhupada on MP3:
http://www.archive.org/details/Bhaktivedanta-Swami-Prabhupada
02) Prabhupadanugas discussions groups: http://groups.myspace.com/prabhupada
03) About Tripurari swami's son (Bhakti Beaudry)
http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black/tripura3.htm
04) Photos of the bogus gurus: http://www.harekrsna.org/guru-photos.htm
05) Preaching in Queens NY:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4494513264869599631&q=prabhupada+ha
re+krishna+center&total=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
06) Costa Rican revolution against the bogus gurus:
http://golokavrindavan.com/
07) Prabhupada's ritvik order:
http://guru.krishna.org/Articles/2001/01/00233.html
08) Ritviks have "the biggest kitchen in India"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/outlook/news/story/2007/07/0707
18_das_india.shtml
09) Krishna's apprearance video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er9SnctUfjs
10) Ramayana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX63pPI-ag&mode=related&search=
11) Krishna and gopis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbK5PDtRpe8&mode=related&search=
12) Montreal Prabhupadanuga center: www.radhadamodara.net
13) George Harrison Sings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7eFQMakhDE
14) Indradyumna swami and consorts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRV5b3uNxBk&eurl
15) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Prabhupada_Jagat_Guru
16) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/InspirationNewsletter
17) PADA archives: http://harekrsna.org
18) http://gitagita.com/en/prabhupada/018.html
19) http://www.prabhupadanugaspress.com
20) Jaya Radha Madhava: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGWVBLxaB14
21) Jaya Radha Madhava by child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJsqsbf7IOA
22) Sita Rama bhole: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKFPuxpXdWM
Palmdale Rathayatra: Sept 30. BY: MAHATMA DASA, The parade will start at 11
am at the Poncitlan Square at 38315 9th St East Palmdale, California. 93550
This Ratha Yatra will be small but sweet. It will resemble the early Ratha
Yatras. We will not sell anything but will provide free Prasada for all. So
kindly take note of the date change. For more information, contact
spiritpassion@msn.com or phone 661-722-8256.
=======================
1) The Problem With Gaudiya Matha No. 1 (post-1936) and No. 2 (post 1977)/
and Rocana Pt. 2
Perhaps the first problem with the Rocana/ bogus GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/
BV and BP Puri/ Gaura Govinda maharaja's "waiting for the next messiah"
project is that when everyone is "anticipating the next messiah," it tends
to make "the present time" somewhat irrelevant. Thus there is a tendency to
ignore the present time's "day to day managing" problems since the main
focus is "on the future." For example, with the Christian fundamentalists
we see that they are madly pumping out all of the planet's oil supplies,
polluting the water and creating global weather problems, starting
enormously costly wars that are creating total havoc for millions of people
(to get even more oil), but hey, what is the problem since "the messiah is
coming soon." It sort of washes their hands of any responsibility for the
results of their current actions, just like the false Krishna gurus create
so much havoc and seem to have no concern for the victimization they are
creating. "The next messiah will fix it."
All of the current problems are magically going to be "resolved in the
future," so there is no actual need to resolve any current problems. The
following text is from a Christian "waiting for the messiah" web site: In
the past Christians took great comfort from the Lord's promise that he
would return in glory. We can still find such comfort in this belief today.
Billy Graham summarized it well: "Our world is filled with fear, hate,
lust, greed, war, and utter despair. Surely the Second Coming of Jesus
Christ is the only hope of replacing these depressing features with trust,
love, universal peace, and prosperity." Yes, there is no need to be
concerned for ISKCON's current problems since some alleged future messiah
is going to sort every problem out -- later on. Rocana and company's "only
hope" is that some future messiah will fix the enormous mess they are
creating -- at the present time.
Srila Prabhupada calls this "post-dated check" syndrome, there is some
alleged "future" fix-it-all person who will emerge, at least according to
the false prophet promises of the Rocana/ bogus GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ BV
and BP Puri/ Gaura Govinda maharaja's "waiting for the next messiah"
project. Therefore, no proper managing has been required in "the current
time frame" to contain ISKCON's criminality, molesting and so many other
problems. The above mentioned folks are not even worried about the current
problems, since their "next messiah" is coming down the pike very soon so
who cares about the present time's problems? The same phenomena is going on
in some Muslim areas. They are bombing their own electrical power and water
supply stations because "the next incarnation of Mohammed" is coming soon,
so who needs to even worry about the present time? And as you'd guess, the
masses end up suffering at the hands of Rocana's team of fanatical "second
coming of the messiah" siddhanta advocates.
So this seems to be the first problem we are having, some of the Krishna
devotees have sort of merged with the "end of times -- second coming"
fanatics, which makes the current situation virtually -- unmanaged. Now a
simple problem, for example raising six million dollars for the Turley
lawsuit, becomes and overwhelming unmanaged problem, because the whole
focus is on some future savior. Very good, except what happens if the
"future savior" never appears, or he does not appear in the time frame the
speculators concoct? And if "the second coming" is the most important
thing, then the current acharya Srila Prabhupada is no longer very
important. He is being de-emphasized by the bogus GBC/ Gaudiya Matha pt. 2/
Rocana's deviant's team, as Bhakti Caru swami nicely pointed out recently.
While we citizens of ISKCON are all waiting for "the real thing," ISKCON
turns into an unmanageable state of chaos. This process is nothing more
than the old machinery of the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha. They emphasized the
future messiah, and so they could not manage their institution in the
present time, so it failed. And then the waves and waves of false messiahs
were able to exploit the chaos.
What happens when everyone is focused on the alleged "future savior" is
that instituionalized corruption, a self-serving elite, and indeed a
systematic institutional devastation can easily take place, while the
masses are blinded from seeing that process due to their anticipation of --
the next messiah. This is a sort of sleight of hand trick used by the
Rocana/ bogus GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ BV and BP Puri/ Gaura Govinda
maharaja's "waiting for the next messiah" project, to allow all sorts of
criminality to seep into ISKCON while the masses are mesmerized looking for
their next savior. Srila Prabhupada then becomes a sort of temporary
stop-gap figurehead while we wait for the real Mc Coy acharya to emerge.
While these deviants have the masses perched on a cliff waiting for the
next messiah, meanwhile they can exploit and pick the pockets of the
masses, and turn the Church upside down and shake every last dime out of
the coffers. This "next messiah" is an old trick, used by millennium
Christian fanatics for centuries. Getting back to some of the more specific
points made by the deviants:
(24) THE TRADITION? When Rocana and his mentors like Sridhara/ Narayana/
Gaura Govinda/ Tripurari/ BV Puri maharaja's say that they have "the only
bona fide tradition," what are they saying actually? Their post-1936
Gaudiya Matha "tradition of worship" is: first of all they established the
worship of a bisexual gentleman named Ananta Vasudeva. And this created a
series of crises situations, schism, violence and murders, which ultimately
ruined the entire Gaudiya Matha mission. Srila Prabhupada cites the names
of the authors of the bogus guru's process as: Madhava Maharaja, Sridhara
Maharaja and Professor Sannyal. These three men are named as concocting the
"Ananta Vasudeva guru project." How did you guess, Narayana Maharaja and
Bhagavata Maharaja wrote in their "Guru Tattva" booklet that "there was
nothing wrong" with their 1936 homosexual guru's project. "Nothing wrong
with bogus gurus, nothing wrong with murders of devotee dissenters, no
problems here"! In other words: they deviated from "the tradition."
(25) KILLED BY KRISHNA. Srila Prabhupada further explains that the "most
pious" person out of the whole 1936 false guru's project was Professor
Sannyal. As such "he was killed immediately by Krishna to stop his offense
of supporting a false guru, while the others lived on and they simply
committed more and more offenses." This apparently makes Jayatirtha "the
most pious" out of the Gaudiya Matha's part two (post-1977) guru cabal,
since he too was killed early on. Why is "the tradition" of making false
gurus wonderful if it is so offensive -- it simply angers Krishna? What is
their "tradition"? Krishna wants to kill the supporters of false gurus, so
we should make this -- "the tradition"? Why is this process "the tradition"?
(26) GAUDIYA MATHA HAS FAILED. After the downfall of Ananta Vasudeva then:
"another (bogus) man comes, then another and another (to be guru)." Srila
Prabhupada says "amongst my God brothers no one is qualified to be
acharya." Yet they concocted dozens and dozens of false gurus -- "guru by
rubber stamp" as Srila Prabhupada sardonically says. And so Srila
Prabhupada sums, "The Gaudiya Matha has failed." And what was the fate of
those who opposed the worship of Ananta Vasudeva (the PADA-ites) in
post-1936? Some of them were beaten severely, some had their skulls cracked
with bricks, some had their faces pushed into dog stools, and some were
murdered. Sridhara Maharaja was challenged about his bogus guru program and
he said, "So what if people are being killed, this is what happened in the
Bhagavat Gita."
Sorry, Bhagavat Gita does NOT describe Sridhara Maharaja's homosexual pooja
project? Notice: Sridhara Maharaja thinks he is authorized to have people
killed when they fail to worship his homosexual messiahs! And is this why
we get death threats from Tripurari's clan, Sridhara Maharaja's traditional
succession of "death to the devotees." No wonder Narayana Maharaja says
that Sridhara Maharaja is his best idea of an acharya, this party all seem
to endorse murders of those who fail to worship their homosexual gurus. And
then Narayana Maharaja says that the children who are getting molested by
his homosexual pedophile gurus are "just getting their karma." In any case,
the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha beatings and murders were reported in the
Indian news media, which publicly ruined the good name of the Gaudiya
Matha. And the same types of "criminal guru's" problems were reported in
the Western media after 1977. Why does the above team think that they have
such a glorious "tradition" since their "traditional program" is: (a) make
deviants and homosexuals into gurus, (b) which results in murdered
dissenters, (c) which ruins the good name of the Krishna mission in the
media, just as (d) their bogus guru's program did in post-1977? Is this the
tradition we want?
(27) CHILDREN OPPRESSED. After 1936, as Vasudeva's son eventually got older
he began to realize that Vasudeva's wife was working on the side -- as a
prostitute. So when the son asked her, "Mother, why are there so many
strange men in the house," the mother killed the child with poison "in
order to save Vasudeva's reputation as the acharya of the Gaudiya Matha."
Killing children with poison, nice post-1936 "tradition" you guys have got
here! Is this why the same team's post-1977 -- part two -- version of their
"tradition" molested thousands of ISKCON's children? What kind of
"tradition" is this, killing and molesting children? Aren't you folks in
"the tradition" of Satan's worship? Nope, you are not advanced enough to
worship Satan. PADA editor has met some nice Satanic worship folks in
Berkeley, they might eat a bat's wing but they would never poison or molest
their children! In short, the Gaudiya Matha's part one (post-1936) and part
two (post-1977) folks "tradition" is clearly -- oppressive to women and
children.
(28) GURU's SUICIDE. Then, after Ananta Vasudeva realized his own son had
to be murdered to cover-up his own problems, he drank the same poison that
killed the son -- and he died. How many people have been similarly killed
-- as was Vasudeva's son -- to cover-up the post-1977 bogus guru's crimes?
Yes, MANY! Their team's post-1936 "acharya" committed suicide, which means
actually he had at least some sensitivity and remorse. Thus he is way more
advanced than the post-1977 bogus acharyas since they are for the most
part: totally shameless. So now we have "the post-1936 tradition" of: bogus
guru appointments, another man comes (is voted in), and this created zonal
gurus, and fallen gurus, and murders of dissenters, and suicide of the
acharya, and more or less this same process evolved after 1977. Oddly the
post-1977 pattern was developed using the IDENTICAL "advisors" from the
previous -- post-1936 bogus guru's imbroglio, namely Sridhara/ Narayana/ BP
and BV Puri and other Gaudiya Matha folks. Suicidal gurus, nice
"tradition"?
(29) GURU POISONED? Then again there are rumors that Srila Sarasvati was
poisoned in order to take over the 1936 guru post, and the same rumors
regarding Srila Prabhupada surfaced later on in ISKCON. How did you guess,
Narayana Maharaja glorifies both Tirtha and Tamal, the main suspects in
both the 1936 and 1977 poison plots. Some have in fact argued that the
post-1936 deviants were already aligned with Tamal's post-1977 "poison
cadre" while Srila Prabhupada was being poisoned, and that they were
plotting together. It certainly seems odd that the ISKCON bogus gurus were
so readily upheld by prominent Gaudiya Matha folks after 1978. Then again
Srila Prabhupada says some of the prominent Gauidya Matha people were all
along "envious" and "they might kill me." And how did you guess, some of
the most prominent members of the Gaudiya Matha said Srila Prabhupada
should not use the title of "Srila Prabhupada." Srila Prabhupada then said,
"Post a guard by my door in Mayapura, since some of my envious God brothers
might have me killed." Very nice tradition here! "He has no right to be
called Srila Prabhupada, he might be some sort of swami maharaja, that's it."
(30) CRITICS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA. Note: is this why the BR Sridhara/ BV
Narayana/ BV Tripurari/ BV and BP Puri folks still call Srila Prabhupada
"swami maharaja," and Narayana Maharaja complains that Srila Prabhupada is
"only a devotee of maha Vishnu." They also complained Srila Prabhupada is
bogus to make a Governing Body, yes this is "not in the tradition." They
said Srila Prabhupada was a "paccha (rotten) grihastha (householder)"; They
criticized him for selling distilled medicinal alcohol; Sridhara's folks
criticized him for making "mlecchas and hippies" into devotees. They
criticized him for having women in the temples, and for making women
"brahmana initiated," and so on -- ad infinitum. They never helped him at
all while we were in India, and they did not lift one finger as he was
slowly and methodically being poisoned to death. It seems the key leaders
of Rocana's "tradition" harassed and attacked Srila Prabhupada. And then,
after both Srila Saraswati and Srila Prabhupada were gone, these deviants
declared that the prime suspects who generated their guru's poison
complaint were "Krishna's pure devotees." Is this the Rocana, bogus Gaudiya
Matha, Bhagavata Dasa, BV Puri, ISKCON Ahmedabad, Gopal Krishna et al.
"tradition" -- we at PADA are so sinful -- for not following them?
(31) MINOR PROBLEMS? We keep hearing Rocana (and some of his Gaudiya Matha
"advisors") saying that the main problem in ISKCON is: some of their GBC
gurus "had geographical zones." And so Rocana's team always seems to target
whole trouble in ISKCON as some slight miscalculation in regards to the
manner in which their "eleven gurus" were supposed to function (because at
least Rocana's team understands that actual gurus do not have "zones"). Yep
child molester and criminal gurus, a minor "zonal guru" problem.
(32) A FEW CONTRADICTIONS. Meanwhile, Rocana's team says that at least one
of their eleven gurus, namely SDG, NEVER was a guru at all. SDG was not a
zonal guru nor any other category of guru and even Rocana's mentors like
Narayana Maharaja agree. What were the eleven appointed as then? Now NOTICE
the contradiction: (a) one of their eleven guru was NEVER a guru, but (b)
the other ten were (or may have been) gurus. Simultaneously (c) ALL of
Rocana's "gurus" are involved in the BOGUS siddhanta of "zonal gurus."
Narayana Maharaja has essentially stated the same idea: (a) sometimes NM
says the eleven are (or were) gurus, sometimes NM says the eleven were
NEVER qualified to be gurus, but he never says what they were appointed as
-- or why he was fooled into thinking they are gurus?
Bottom line of both Rocana and Narayana Maharaja is: Srila Prabhupada made
a huge mistake concocting the process of unqualified and / or zonal gurus.
Wait a minute! It was Rocana and Narayana Maharaja who concocted the whole
"unqualified and zonal gurus," not anyone else! Srila Prabhupada said he
was only going to appoint zonal priests, this is his actual order. Of
course as soon as we say that Srila Prabhupada only appointed zonal
"priests," then Rocana and his mentors SDG and Narayana Maharaja say,
"What, Srila Prabhupada did not appoint the unqualified as zonal gurus? He
must be bogus then! That means Srila Prabhupada is not following the
Rocana/ SDG/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ Gaura Govinda/ Tripurari/ BV Puri
maharaja's post-1936 Gaudiya Matha 'tradition' of worshiping deviants and
homosexuals as Krishna's successors! We cannot have that! Everyone,
especially children, needs to worship deviants, otherwise they are 'not in
the tradition.'"
And how did you guess, BV Puri Maharaja (Gopal Krishna Maharaja's / ISKCON
Ahmedabad's Jasomatinandan Prabhu's mentor) says the same thing, We only
follow the tradition, and in our tradition we worship deviants and
homosexuals as our acharyas, otherwise, one cannot approach Krishna without
worship of our deviants -- tradition. WHAT!!! Rocana's team never
understood that "worship of living deviants" is NOT in our TRADITION. And
guess what happens when a society worships "living deviants"? Then their
bogus guru process orchestrates murders of opponents and engages in so many
scandals that it discredits the entire mission (post-1936 India's Gaudiya
Matha pt. 1). And so, when Rocana's team re-established their pooja of
deviants's plan (Gaudiya Matha pt. 2 / post-1977 ISKCON), then most of the
children in ISKCON were molested under their "buggery pooja." And these
fellows proudly and vociferously protected "the tradition" -- of homosexual
pooja? Poisoned and molested children? Horrible media publicity. Endless
lawsuits. Good tradition they got here pilgrims!
(33) APPOINTED GURUS: UNFOUNDED. And the "only trouble" is that the eleven
slightly miscalculated how a guru functions. Sorry, it seems that there is
a much bigger problem here than "a slight misunderstanding of the word
zonal being applied to a guru." The problem is: that none of the eleven
were ever appointed or designated as "diksha gurus." This has been a
problem all along with many of the ISKCON "moderates." While PADA has been
saying that there is a major deviation with this bogus guru appointment
going on, the Rocana types think there is only some minor nomenclature
error -- and so "the moderates" have merely assumed that the eleven are
diksha gurus. We merely need to repair (reform) their deviations. How did
you guess, Narayana and BV Puri Maharajas are the creators of "the 1984
guru reform."
And because there is only a minor error here, it is easy to reform / repair
the "appointed" gurus and fix their broken down humpty dumpty guru project.
We need to "wait and see" while Ramesvara, Jayatirtha, Hansadutta, Tamal --
"reform" -- and this was Sridhara Maharaja's plan. So whenever the bogus
Gaudiya Matha's post-1977 (part two) homosexual pedophile guru lineage
needed help, they always got help from the leaders of bogus Gaudiya Matha's
(post-1936) part one.And this guru reform can be done easily: all "the
reformers" have to do is just get their gurus to change their designations,
and then presto bingo, all will be well.
Krishna Kanta Desai (IRM) has had the same exact problem, he thinks he is
going to "reform" bad gurus and turn them into good gurus. No one seems to
be able to figure out that if ACTUAL gurus never claim to have zones, and
the eleven have been claiming to have zones, then that means ALL of them
are deviants all along and not gurus? If a person is speaking some nonsense
"gurus have zones," then he is not a guru himself? So this is the first
trouble we are having with many "moderates" in the current ISKCON scene,
they assumed that "the eleven" are, were or could have been gurus,
meanwhile, admitting that their gurus are speaking bogus siddhanta.
Yet this is the first thing we need to know about the guru, he never speaks
any bogus siddhanta. Rocana thinks that the guru speak bogus siddhanta, and
then Rocana is going to repair and reform the guru from speaking bogus
siddhanta. Meanwhile, Rocana forgot that none of the previous gurus ever
spoke bogus siddhanta? And it is an offense to claim that gurus are
speaking bogus siddhanta, and they need reforming and so on. Here is more
on this topic:
Desa-kala-patra
BY: ROCANA DASA
Aug 11, CANADA (SUN) — Desa-kala-patra (Time, Place and Circumstance).
This is in response to Praghosa dasa's article of this day, entitled "With
Respect for the Sake of Discussion". According to Praghosa dasa, it's
incorrect for me to say that the Sampradaya Acarya has a duty to bring the
siddhanta of the Sampradaya into focus according to time, place and
circumstance. Praghosa claims that the Sampradaya Acarya, as he understands
him, is simply fulfilling the order of Krsna, and that perhaps Krsna is not
requesting the Sampradaya Acarya to present our philosophy according to
desa-kalpa-patra.
(34) DESA-KALA-PATRA DENIED. PADA: Good point. Whenever Srila Sarasvati or
Srila Prabhupada "adjust the siddhanta" (under the order of Krishna) to
make "priests" -- when no qualified gurus are present, then Rocana's team
says: Srila Prabhupada and Krishna have no idea what they are doing! Why
isn't Krishna following the Rocana/ SDG/ Sridhara/ Narayan/ Garua Govinda/
BV Puri's maharaja's team's "tradition of homosexual gurus"? The Gaudiya
Matha part one and part two teams are not happy to heed the dictation of
God. Rocana defeats himself here, he says Srila Prabhupada can make a
ritvik system, this is an adjustment, but he cannot do so without
"dictation from Rocana's Gaudiya Matha part one and part two homosexual
guru lineage." Meanwhile Rocana says we need to now search for the next
"living guru," which is exactly what his guru SDG and the Gaudiya Matha
part one and two are saying. Srila Prabhupada never mentions that we should
seek out another guru after he departs. The deviants eliminated the actual
order and concocted a non-existent order.]
[** RD: Whether we're referring to the Sampradaya Acarya or a bona fide
representative of that Sampradaya Acarya in disciplic succession, the duty
of all gurus is to instruct their disciples and followers in both the
siddhanta and the practical application or the process. The difference
between a Sampradaya Acarya and a sadhana-bhakta guru is that the
Sampradaya Acaryas are nitya-siddha, and on this point Praghosa and I
apparently both agree.]
(35) SDG ALWAYS EMERGING. PADA: OOOP! Notice that Rocana cites his actual
guru Satsvarupa dasa goswami once again, with SDG's concoted new term: "the
sadhana (neophyte) bhakta guru." This is exactly like Satsvarupa's "regular
(sadhaka) gurus" which he interprets as neophyte gurus "regulated by
sadhana." OK, no surprise that Rocana is citing as his authority Mr. SDG.
No, the neophytes are not (diksha) gurus, they are -- at best --
representatives of the guru (aka preachers or priests). There is no mention
in "the tradition" of SDG's and Rocana's "neophyte gurus." There is the
nitya siddha guru (diksha) and then there are the neophytes, the preachers,
the representatives (shiksha). Technically this is called (a) the parisad
guru (associate of Krishna) and (b) the neophytes (sadhakas). We cannot
telescope these levels or titles. The student worships the master, he is
not the master himself! Where does Srila Prabhupada discuss "the sadhaka
guru." Rocana never tells us where his guru SDG found this concocted term?
This is what happened in Gaudiya Matha part one, "anyone who chants is a
guru." No, he is a neophyte.
The only good news is that at least Rocana and his mentor SDG says their
"gurus" must perform some basic sadhana chanting, which is good except
their Gaudiya Matha part one and part two "sadhaka gurus" are quite often
found to be "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children," drinking
Vodka, smoking pot, watching porno and etc.? Where does Srila Prabhupada
mention that after he departs: neophyte sadhakas will be worshipped as his
successor gurus? This is all concoction, actually Gaudiya Matha part two.
Rocana also never explains, when his "sadhana guru" fails to perform the
basic sadhana, how can we reign in "the guru"? Don't we see people getting
beaten or murdered if they "challenge the (Rocana/ SDG/ Gaudiya Matha)
guru"? Nice tradition here, Rocana's Gaudiya Matha plan gets innocent
devotees molested, poisoned and killed. "This is the tradition," ... of Al
Capone? A layman who is going to the Church to pray, the sadhaka, and so he
should be worshiped as if he is Jesus? And those who object, beat and kill
them. Nice tradition there Rocana!]
[** RD: Insofar as the Sampradaya Acarya is acting purely in accordance
with the desires of the Lord, he is always bringing forward the siddhanta
according to time, place and circumstance. This is so because Krsna Himself
is omniscient. Being aware of all things at all times, Krsna's desires are
themselves always according to time, place and circumstance. Consequently,
the Sampradaya Acaryas always convey the Absolute Truth perfectly and
according to the desires of the Lord. In this context, whether one chooses
to use the word "duty" or "pure devotion" is a rhetorical matter. The fact
remains the same.]
(36) KRISHNA'S ORDERS CONFUTED. PADA: Fine, except as soon as Krishna and
the sampradaya acharya gives an order according to time, place and
circumstances, "make priests and not gurus," then Rocana says Krishna is
bogus for "not following Rocana's Gaudiya Matha part two homosexual guru
tradition." Rocana and Professor Sannyal are Krishna's new boss! You folks
are really lucky out there, it is not easy to find the boss of God Almighty!]
[** RD: To conclude that any one of our Sampradaya Acaryas, i.e., those on
the List of 32, didn't advent themselves in order to show, according to
time, place and circumstance, the essence of our philosophy, is incorrect.
Praghosa dasa alludes to the fact that some of the Acaryas on the list,
most notably Jagannatha das Babaji or Gaura Kishore das Babaji, didn't
write anything down. Of course, in the statement that he quoted, I don't
mention writing. I only say that they "made relevant" the siddhanta.
Every individual within our Sampradaya has to understand in the context of
their time, place and circumstance, what these Sampradaya Acaryas were
contributing. As Srila Prabhupada is the most recent manifestation of the
eternal Sampradaya, there is no question that he undoubtedly did these
things. In other words he, more than anyone during or since his manifest
lila, brought everything into time place and circumstance.]
(37) HATCHET JOB. And now that Srila Prabhupada "is not in his manifest
lila," go find another guru even if he is a sloppy sadhaka, or a person
certified by the pedophile lineage like Bhakti Marga. Rocana never explains
why he can cut and paste parts of the sampradaya acharya's teachings that
he does not like. Srila Prabhupada says, "Do not got to the Gaudiya Matha
and create false gurus," Rocana snips that part off and he says, "Who needs
Srila Prabhupada's idea when we can have nice homosexual guru programs --
like Gaudiya Matha part one and two, Bhakti Marga's lineage? And let us go
to the Gaudiya Matha for our jiva tattva as well, and follow Kundali's, BV
Puri Maharaja's, Gaura Govinda Maharaja's, ooops, Gaudiya Matha's ditto
heads"! Ummm, like SDG is doing! Rocana wears his SDG hat, then his ritvik
hat, then, oh never mind! The Gaudiya Matha says their guru is posthumous,
Rocana says his guru is posthumous, SDG says his guru is posthumous, where
does Srila Prabhupada say that the guru is posthumous? No, Srila Prabhupada
says it is an offense to say the guru is posthumous. Hatchet job!]
[** RD: The duty of all devotees since time immemorial is to preach Krsna
consciousness -- either to pass it on in the written word, via sound
vibration, or by their actions. This is the message we get from Lord
Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita. Srila Prabhupada, the
Sampradaya Acarya, is non-different than the Bhagavad-gita or Arjuna in
this regard.]
(38) DEFIES GITA. PADA: Goody. So when Srila Prabhupada says "they will be
ritviks and not gurus," that is the same as Rocana's team defying the
Bhagwat Gita. Goody! We agree, Rocana's Gaudiya Matha part two homosexual
"guru tradition" is a direct challenge to the Gita. Well said! Of course
Rocana's Gaudiya Matha pals say "Srila Prabhupada's purports are not
shastra." Yep, when someone forgets to glorify their buggery pooja, this is
not shastra! In Rocana's tradition, the words of the pure devotee "are not
shastra." Is not the shastra -- the words of the pure devotee?]
[** RD: Insofar as the request has been given to us by the Supreme Lord
that we pass this philosophy that we have assimilated and realized on to
others in the mood of compassion and concern for their eternal well being,
to that degree it is every devotee's duty to preach according to time,
place and circumstance. Some, like the Sampradaya Acaryas, can do it in a
grand way, and for obvious reasons - they are completely pure and
inconceivably empowered. But whether it's me, Praghosa dasa or any
followers of the Sampradaya Acarya, we also have the same duty. Not to
interpret, but simply to understand who we're preaching to and what sort of
circumstances the person we're preaching to is in, so that we can present
the teachings in such a way as they will understand.]
(39) MORE CONTRADICTIONS. PADA: And this is why nobody understands what
Rocana is preaching: at all? Rocana says the acharyas are free to preach
according to time and place, but if they violate Rocana's pals like the
Kundali's "post-1936 Gaudiya Matha's tradition of homosexual and criminal
gurus," then Rocana says he can toss out the acharya's words? What ever
happened to Rocana's previous shiksha guru Kundali anyway? Kundali seems to
have realized that his pounding the drum for the worship of deviants was an
aparadha. Rocana complained not long ago that "the GBC does not allow their
God brothers to be gurus and sannyasis." Rocana, Srila Prabhupada said that
your sannyasas are not qualified, that system is not working. Now you want
to concoct more of them? And you want to concoct that the persons not fit
for sannyasa are gurus? And if a person is truly a bona fide guru, why does
he even need the rubber stamp of the ISKCON bogus gurus? Rocana and his
Gaudiya Matha part two pals never explain anything!]
[** RD: That's really the essence of what time, place and circumstance
means. In the case of the Sampradaya Acaryas, they set the absolute
standard. We, as conditioned souls but still sincere preachers, must strive
to meet that standard in our attempts to explain this philosophy and
process to inquiring persons. Praghosa dasa would make his position more
clear if he would provide us with a paper written by him that is the
equivalent of, or a comparison to, my Sampradaya Acarya paper, wherein he
explains his conception of Srila Prabhupada in the way that I have
presented mine. If he did that, then we would be able to make a more
exacting comparison. I think that would be far more helpful than simply
focusing in on a few lines that I've written, that he thinks don't
completely fit his conception. And in particular, I would ask that he tell
us specifically how he understands Srila Prabhupada in comparison to his
godbrothers, the previous Acaryas, the ISKCON institution, the regular
gurus, etc.]
(40) ROCANA CITES Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami (SDG). PADA: Here we go again, it
is SDG's "regular (sadhaka) gurus" again. Rocana quacks like an SDG duck,
walks like an SDG duck, talks like and SDG duck, thinks like an SDG duck,
ooops! Is he an SDG duckling? No, the regulated (sadhaka) is not the guru,
he is a priest at best! Rocana, time to take off your SDG hat! Where does
Srila Prabhupada discuss the process of "regular gurus" i.e. a person who
is "regulated by chanting his rounds" -- he is not a guru! Notice, you are
saying what the bogus Gaudiya Matha says, if a person "chants his rounds"
then he is a (sadhaka) guru. Rocana is part of the envious God brother's
society, Gaudiya Matha part one. No, a person who simply "chants his
rounds" is a sadhaka, period, not a sadhaka guru. You are citing the envous
God brothers and SDG again, they are the ones who telescoped sadhaka and
guru after 1936. Why does Rocana love "the envious God brother's"
apa-siddhanta association?]
[ ** RD: ... "I'm all in! I want to give it my best shot! This mantra is
wonderful and I never want other than the association of the devotees! I
want to be initiated and fully commit - just like you did". The key aspect
of this is, "I want to be initiated."
In my particular situation, this is not a hypothetical scenario at all. For
quite a number of years now, since my departure from 'within' the ISKCON
institution, I have instructed newcomers to Krsna consciousness. Those who
have become devotees are doing quite nicely in Krsna consciousness as far
as I can see.
(41) PARTIAL CREDIT TO ROCANA: PADA: This is partially good, you are
instructing people that their sampradaya guru is Srila Prabhupada, but then
you and your Gaudiya Matha pals say Srila Prabhupada has no potency to give
divyam jnanam which destroys sins (diksha). Rather, we need your Bhakti
Marga's official "regulated" SDG lineage rubber stamp, ... walks like an
SDG duck, talks like an SDG duck, etc. We need a nice "regular" plain old
vanilla "regulated" guru, you know, voted in by your "regular" plain old
vanilla pedophiles, very "regulated" that Rocana! Rocana, how come you
cannot "regulate" whether your gurus are having illicit sex with men, women
and /or children, what to speak of any other regulations? How are you
"regulating" your gurus, at all? Rather we need a system of regulation for
the neophytes, the sadhakas. The pure devotees do not require your
committee's regulation. Yet even with your wonderful guru regulating
committee, your gurus are clearly out of control mavericks. This is what
happened in your previous Gaudiya Matha pt. 1., Sridhara Maharaja was
unable to control his Frankenstein Ananta Vasudeva. Rocana your GBC
committee is meant to control the other sadhakas, not the guru! Why does
Rocana love Sridhara Maharaja's homosexual (sadhaka?) guru lineage project
so much?]
[ **RD: ...aspire" for this diksa or that diksa guru.]
(42) ASPIRE FOR WHOM? PADA: You mean we need the homosexual "diksha guru"
lineages like Rocana's pals SDG, Bhakti Marga and BV Puri are always
preaching about? We need to aspire for the "second coming messiah,"
Rocana's false promise? We neeed the bogus sadhaka guru who is not even a
bona fide sadhaka -- guru lineage, as occured in your Gaudiya Matha pt. 1
already after 1936? Jayadvaita says that when a person chants -- he is a
sadhaka guru, and this is SDG's main pal, so why does Rocana always cite
SDG, Jayadvaita, and the envious God brothers of the Gaudiya Matha as his
authorities? The layman is a sadhaka, great, that means he is not worshiped
like the guru, the Vishnupada or Jesus. How come Rocana and his Gaudiya
Matha pals cannot ever figure this out? Well let's say we worship Jesus, oh
oh, big deviation, how terrible, the Church of Ritviks, you mean we are not
worshiping Rocana's Gaudiya Matha pt 1 and part 2 homosexual's messiah's
club members? Rocana has insulted the process of diksha so much so it has
become a laughingstock, just as his Gaudiya Matha mentors did after 1936.
Meanwhile, they cast their smokesceen, but the next messiah is coming
shortly, look!, nothing up my sleeve, he is in my magic chest, presto bingo
boingo, he will be here soon!]
[** RD: Because they have a clear understanding of what it means to be
initiated, in other words being connected to the Sampradaya, and they don't
carry the misconception that you have to do it through some institutional
diksa lineage.]
(43) ROCANA CITES RITVIKS: PADA: Oh oh, now Rocana is putting on his PADA
and ritvik hat. Now he says that "being connected" to Srila Prabhupada
through ISKCON is the actual initiation, not by the institutional
initiation that Rocana simultaneously gives us through his Gaudiya Matha
(part two) pals like Bhakti Marga, Rocana's other hat. Does Rocana know
which hat he is wearing from moment to moment? Jeepers, I am at the moment
an SDG groupie, but just a minute ago I was citing PADA. The good news is
that at least some of the time even some of Rocana's Gaudiya Matha pals
like Narayana are saying, oh yes swami maharaja is the current sampradaya
acharya. That is because we have exposed their molester beejer guru process
so badly, we are forcing them to say that!]
[** RD: They understand that initiation begins with following and
surrendering to the most recent pure representative of the disciplic
succession. According to their time, place and circumstance, that's Srila
Prabhupada, the most recent Sampradaya Acarya.]
[PADA: Good. Rocana is putting on his ritvik hat again! Yes, you have to
accept the previous link in the chain, this is something PADA has promoted
all along. Now Rocana joins PADA, at least for the moment, until he
remembers he is SDG's twin brother!]
[** RD: They understand that Caitya Guru is in their heart, and that he has
already led them to a Sampradaya Acarya, and to one or more siksa gurus. As
such, they know that Caitya Guru will also, in due course, fulfill their
desires for an eternal diksa guru when the circumstances are ripe for them.]
(44) THE CHURCH OF THE NEXT MESSIAH. PADA: Srila Prabhupada never discussed
that another acharya was going to arrive anytime soon, or that people
should pray for one to emerge? This is another Rocana / SDG concotion.
"Srila Prabhupada is not the guru, you have to wait for Rocana to declare
that there is another guru." Ooops, this is what SDG does! Now Rocana has
put on his SDG hat -- again? Srila Prabhupada never discussed this alleged
"soon to appear" diksha guru? The Gaudiya Matha does ....! Where does Srila
Prabhupada say that there is going to be another diksha guru coming soon,
the second coming -- or anytime at all? Or that we should anticipate that
one is going to appear? Rocana is in the Church of "Jesus Will Return."
Good job, people are all waiting for "Jesus to return" so they can neglect
serving him now -- and fleece the masses! Why is Rocana citing the
Protestants now? Srila Prabhupada says, "I will never die," so that should
be emphasized. There may or may not be another pure devotee appearing,
either soon or at all, that is all up to Krishna, this is not Rocana's job.]
[** RD: But they're not in great anxiety about it, and they don't believe
that getting diksa as fast as possible is an absolute requirement, even
before they understand the philosophy enough to be able to discern who is
and is not a bona fide diksa guru. Nor are they going to be pushed by some
institutional circumstance or peer pressure to be committed to the
institution, or committed to a so-called diksa guru who they might see
occasionally throughout their whole lifetime, and who never trains them.]
[PADA: Now Rocana is wearing his ritvik hat. Yes, the bogus diksha gurus of
ISKCON are not even training people, they are off vacationing in the
Bahamas, to be bothered. Good job Rocana! You are getting closer to ritviks!]
[** RD: This is what I recommended to these devotees, these siksa disciples
of mine. And from what I can see, it's working very well. They have a
strong attachment to Srila Prabhupada, Krsna and the Holy Name. They're
joyful in their Krsna consciousness, and they don't feel like they're
losing out because the institution doesn't recognize them as "bona fide"
disciples of ISKCON gurus.]
[PADA: That means they are disciples of Srila Prabhupada, oh Rocana is
showing his ritvik-ness more and more now!]
** RD: Taking this position does not preclude devotees from aspiring for
diksa initiation one day, when the time is right for them and the action is
truly informed and inspired by Caitya Guru. This, Praghosa dasa, is my
answer to the practical application of diksa initiation within the context
of my position on the Sampradaya Acarya.
[PADA: Srika Prabhupada says that his books do not give divyam jnanam,
diksha? Now Rocana is wearing his SDG hat again. I hope he is taking his
meds!]
[** RD: Honestly, I've found that when I present the Sampradaya Acarya
approach to newcomers, they just immediately see the common sense
practicality of what I'm saying. In many cases having already seen enough
of the problems rampant in ISKCON, they have no problem adopting and
adapting to the Sampradaya Acarya approach. Obviously in this article I
can't repeat all the things I've already written or explained elsewhere. I
do feel, however, that even the first draft of my Sampradaya Acarya paper
sets down the practical approach to diksa that I've explained above.
Perhaps Praghosa dasa will now re-read that paper and understand it in a
different light. ]
[PADA: Well yes, your sampradaya acharya idea is our ritvik idea, we said
this in 1978, he is the acharya, good idea!]
[** RD: Many people think that we simply 'lucked out' in having Srila
Prabhupada as our diksa guru, but among even those who were lucky, many of
them are not following Srila Prabhupada now, regardless of the causeless
mercy that was bestowed on them. Frankly, I don't distinguish between Srila
Prabhupada disciples and those who came after Srila Prabhupada and who are
sincerely following him. The only difference is that we 'originals' don't
have to deal with the diksa issue.]
(45) SRILA PRABHUPADA: NOT CLEAR? PADA: Srila Prabhupada "did not have the
time to deal with the diksha issue." Ooops, Rocana put on his SDG hat
again! No wonder Rocana does not know what the diksha guru is, so he ends
up citing Gaudiya Matha part two, he says he never took the time to study
the issue!]
** RD: Of course, now we're seemingly nitpicking in terms of whether or not
the Sampradaya Acarya is obliged to perform a "duty", or Praghosa's idea
that my position doesn't have any practical application. One of the things
we differ on is the fact that Praghosa has this idea that ISKCON is
non-different than Srila Prabhupada. I don't share that perception of the
institution. At the time Srila Prabhupada performed his final preaching
pastimes ISKCON was a vehicle that he used, as were all his disciples. But
Srila Prabhupada himself is supreme in that regard ... supreme above and
beyond ISKCON. What is non-different than Srila Prabhupada is his writings,
his teachings. And by taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada's direct
instructions, we can all encourage ourselves and each other.
[PADA: OK, so if we take shelter of Srila Prabhupada, we are accpeting his
divyam jnanam, that is diksha. That is the ritvik idea. Why nitpick? Good
point Rocana. thanks pd]
======================
2) Sally Kirkland Chants HARE KRISHNA on TV! BY: GADADHARA DASA
Aug 9, BERKELEY, CALIFORNIA (SUN) — On July 19th 2007, The Academy Award
Nominated actress Sally Kirkland chanted the Hare Krishna mantra with some
of Srila Prabhupada's followers on "The Sally Kirkland Show". The TV show
included a few dramatic skits performed by her acting students and a few
bhajans lead by Clytie Lane (a well known actress). Sally and Clytie have
been chanting since the 60's.
Sally Kirkland, along with Academy Award Nominated actor Nick Nolte and
Clytie Lane, are planning to be a part of the "Mantra Rock Concert" in
Berkeley, CA on Saturday August 18th, 2007 in People's Park, the day before
the San Francisco Ratha Yatra Festival.
==================
3) More for Our Collective Consideration BY: PRAGHOSA DASA
Aug 8, NEW YORK (SUN) — A representative from the First ISKCON Studies
Conference - Krsna Ksetra prabhu confidently exclaimed: "When Srila
Prabhupada said, 'Don’t misinterpret,' he meant 'interpret well, interpret
skillfully,' so that we can communicate our tradition well and skillfully
to the world." This statement perfectly represents both the defiant
statements of the architect of rebellion in ISKCON - Tamal Krsna Goswami
himself delivered in the not too distant past, as well as the North
American Body now purported to be commissioned as the NA GBC Executors - in
the present.
When I say one thing to a group of people and one man turns to this
collective audience and states "What Praghosa Prabhu meant in saying what
he just said was"..... and he proceeds to give a subjectively understood
meaning of my statement, that is in essence the polar opposite of my
statement - then he is directly interpreting my comments. There is no other
way to define what just occurred. To say that when Srila Prabhupada
insisted we "Don't interpret" his explanation of the Absolute Truth - he
actually meant " to interpret wisely" - one immediately identifies himself
as either a complete and utter fool - or as an envious deviant who despises
the authority of Srila Prabhupada.
Tamal Krsna Goswami, in one of his essential interpretations of the
Absolute Truth, gave voice to what is perhaps the most influential flaw in
his (mis)understanding or rejection of the Absolute Truth as given us by
Srila Prabhupada, with the following statement published in a Thesis Paper,
that was later published as "A Hare Krsna at Southern Methodist
University". I quote: "But when the guru departs, sadhu and sastra can take
on a new import, as those who succeed him become the new interpreters of
past precedents, scriptural law, and the new set of circumstance."
If I am obliged to point out each and every aspect of the above statement
that lacks the true touch of truth - to anyone - then shame on you. I will
assume that the audience is educated sufficiently to see the truly demonic
nature of the above representation of "illusion as reality for the denial
of real welfare of all". Recently the NA GBC attempted to elicit
acquiescence from the aggregate of responsible leadership across North
America - with a concocted "oath of allegiance" - to the very same
misrepresentation of Truth with the following demand that:
"Although ISKCON of ..., Inc. is legally, financially, and managerially
independent, all activities and powers of the corporation shall be carried
out and executed in accordance with the teachings and instructions of Srila
Prabhupada, as construed and applied by the GBC. The corporation shall not
conduct itself in any way contrary to the ecclesiastical policies of the GBC.
Clearly - in the eyes of some, the meaning of "Don't interpret" is - "ONLY
A SELECT GROUP or SELF ANNOINTED CHOSEN INDVIDUAL can construe or interpret
the teaching of the Truth under the banner of ISKCON." The essence of the
self-deluded condition is to believe one's own lie. To say "something is
not allowed' really means "it is allowed but only for a select group that
fortunately includes me or us" - is in actuality just simple lying. It is
first off all, lying to oneself. Then - when we attempt to "pass off" the
lie we have willingly expressed and accepted - we are lying to others. This
is commonly referred to as cheating.
I am curious as to how much money was spent by all to attend this
all-important conference that offered up such contrary conclusions, rooted
in the lie: interpretation of the Truth as opposed to simple
re-presentation of the Truth, is both wanted and valuable in the name of
serving the Purest Servant of the Truth - His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada?
Respectfully, Praghosa Das - NYC
==================
SARVO: You're right I did step out of line and I owe an apology. I did the
very thing that I've repeatedly accused whoever he is of doing. I shot from
the hip and found fault with someone. Just for the record though, please
let me say that I don't feel like anyone at any stage of the game here has
given me credit for again and again saying I completely agree with all your
complaints. Only I think that you won't get sympathy if you go after
specific people the way you have been for the last so many years. If you
can promote your ideas without attacking particular people, you'll gain a
lot more positive attention and accomplish much more in a much shorter
period of time. It's only taken me sixty years to figure this out.
Satsvarup will be dead before you know it. Then you'll have to feel a
little sorry whether you want to or not. Why even put yourself in that
position if it's not really necessary?
[PADA: Thanks Sarvo. Srila Prabhupada addresses all kinds of bogus idea,
and he often cites the names of the authors of these bogus ideas. Hence he
always names specific people, for example he says that: Madhava Maharaja,
Sridhara Maharaja and Professor Sannyal made the false guru Ananta Vasudeva
and the most pious one of the whole lot was Professor Sannyal, as such he
was killed immediately by Krishna while the others lived on and commited
more and more offenses. He named the names, told the story, so the story
makes sense?
Srila Prabhupada always gave us the names, because that makes sense, here
is a bogus siddhanta, and here in the person promoting said siddhanta, so
beware.
Srila Prabhupada, he told me personally that Bal Yogi is " the worst
rascal, " and so on and so forth. If we try to make some vague comments by
not naming any names, it makes no sense, hence Rupa goswami also writes in
his tikas the names of the mayavadi gurus and he specifies WHO they are and
HOW they are wrong. We are following the acharyas, here is the bogus idea:
and here is its author.
Satsvarupa has wrote most of the GBC's position papers, so we have to
mention his name and his papers simultaneously. He also writes that "the
more one chants Hare Krishna, the drier it gets" and so on, so we have to
address his bogus ideas, and: who is the author of these bogus ideas,
following in the footsteps of our guru maharaja.
Also, I never said I do not feel sorry for SDG? You are putting words in my
mouth?
In fact someone who is a nurse told me that after his 30 years of taking
psychotropic drugs, his brain is probably half melted anyways, so it would
be hard to fix that no matter what. So this is all quite sad, when did I
say this was not a sorrowful event?
Srila Prabhupada says his guru maharaja cried when his sannyasas fell down,
saying "I could not save him." So we can feel sorry that these people had
such great opportunity -- and now they also failed, so yes, this is sad.
Paradise Lost, that is sad. When did I say this was not sad?
At the same time we have to distinguish their siddhanta vs the bona fide
siddhanta. When Srila Prabhupada gives the names of people, he does so for
clairity, not as personal attack. What we all need to do now is unite
together to promote Srila Prabhupada, and quit fighting over the minor
details.
So let us know how we can ALL unitedly preach together for the sake of
re-establishing His Divine Grace and His Siddhanta. You should tell us how
we can all cooperate for the re-establishing of his books, siddhanta,
harinama, all of the above. I'll help, and if we all work together (as is
the order) then we have combined potency, let's do it! thanks pd