SRILA PRABHUPADA LIVING STILL IN SOUND!



SRILA PRABHUPADA OUR JAGAD DIKSA GURU:
LIVING STILL IN SOUND
!

750716pc.sf Conversations
Reporter (2): What will happen to the movement in the United States when you die?
Prabhupada: I WILL NEVER DIE.
Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupada: I SHALL LIVE FROM MY BOOKS, AND YOU WILL UTILIZE.
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Prabhupada: Yes, my Guru Maharaja is there. Where is my photo of Guru Maharaja? I think... Here is.

Srila Prabhupada
Srila Prabhupada

He reasons ill who tells
that Vaishnavas die
When thou are living
still in sound.
The Vaishnavas die to live
and living try to
Spread a holy life around!

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura
Prabhupada's Guru Maharaja

Prabhupada: Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December, 1936, I still consider His Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association--by vani and by vapu. Vani means words, and vapu means physical presence. PHYSICAL PRESENCE IS SOMETIMES APPRECIABLE AND SOMETIMES NOT, BUT VANI CONTINUES TO EXIST ETERNALLY. THEREFORE WE MUST TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VANI, NOT THE PHYSICAL PRESENCE. Bhagavad-gita, for example, is the vani of Lord Krsna. Although Krsna was personally present five thousand years ago and is no longer physically present from the materialistic point of view, Bhagavad-gita continues.

Indian Lady: ... is that spiritual master still guiding after death?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Just like Krsna is guiding us, similarly spiritual master will guide us. (General lectures, 69/09/23)

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada when you're not present with us , how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise...

SRILA PRABHUPADA: Well the questions are answ... answers are there in my books.
(Morning Walk, Los Angeles, 13/5/73)

So utilise whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered. (Letter to Upendra, 7/1/76)

Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered. ( Letter to Randhira, 24/01/70)

If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way. (BTG 13:1-2, December 1977) 

74-11-22 Letter: Bahurupa
In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.

Note: This clearly indicates that Srila Prabhupada's books are understood through their own potency, and that there is therefore no need for a physically present guru to understand the books. Our Srimad Bhagavatam is unique because the verses of the Bhagavatam are directly complemented with the purports of Srila Prabhupada, who is the bonafide maha-bhagavata ; therefore, the book Bhagavata and the person Bhagavata are combined in Srila Prabhupada's Srimad Bhagavatam. Therefore, there is no need for a third party, "the so called current Iskcon links" to (mis)interpret what Srila Prabhupada "really means to say".

73-11-25. Letter: Cidananda
I should be returning to Los Angeles the last week of November and I should be more than happy to see you there. Please always try to remember me by my teachings and we shall always be together. Just like I have written in the first publications of Srimad-Bhagavatam, "THE SPIRITUAL MASTER LIVES FOREVER BY HIS DIVINE INSTRUCTION AND THE DISCIPLE LIVES WITH HIM.", because I have always served my Guru Maharaja and followed His teachings I am now even never separated from Him. Sometimes Maya may come and try to interfere but we must not falter, we must always follow the chalked out path layed down by the great acharya's and in the end you will see.

770517ar.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: So I cannot speak. I am feeling very weak. I was to go to other places like Chandigarh program, but I cancelled the program because the condition of my health is very deteriorating. So I preferred to come to Vrndavana. If death takes place, let it take here. So there is nothing to be said new. Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor. Whether I am present or not present, it doesn't matter. As Krsna is living eternally, similarly, living being also lives eternally. But KIRTIR YASYA SA JIVATI: "ONE WHO HAS DONE SERVICE TO THE LORD LIVES FOREVER." So you have been taught to serve Krsna, and with Krsna we'll live eternally. Our life is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. A temporary disappearance of this body, it doesn't matter. Body is meant for disappearance. Tatha dehantara-praptih. So live forever by serving Krsna. Thank you very much.

70-06-22 Letter: Hamsaduta
WE ARE NOT SEPARATED ACTUALLY. There are two--vani or vapu. So vapu is physical presence and vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same. So Krsna when He was physically present before Arjuna is the same when He is present before us by His vani of Bhagavad-gita. So far I am concerned, I do not factually feel any separation from my Spiritual Master because I am trying to serve Him according to His desire. That should be the motto. IF YOU KINDLY TRY TO FULFILL MY MISSION FOR WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN SENT THERE, THAT WILL BE OUR CONSTANT ASSOCIATION.

75-11-04 Letter: Suci

You have rightly said that the best way to associate with the spiritual master is to follow his instructions. There are two ways of associating, by vani and by vapu. Vani means words and vapu means physical presence. PHYSICAL PRESENCE IS SOMETIMES APPRECIABLE AND SOMETIMES NOT. THEREFORE WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VANI, NOT THE PHYSICAL PRESENCE, BECAUSE THE VANI CONTINUES TO EXIST ETERNALLY. Bhagavad-gita for example is the vani of Lord Krishna. Although Krishna was personally present 5,000 years ago and is no longer present physically from the materialistic viewpoint, still Bhagavad-gita continues. So you have correctly concluded.

690113LE.LA Lectures
...vani and vapu, and vapu means the physical body, and vani means the vibration. So we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means... We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na... Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the sastras.

SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.

Adi 1.35
The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER'S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.

77-03-12 Letter: Rajarsi
PERSONAL SERVICE TO THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MEANS TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS. My request is the same for everyone: that they follow strictly the regulative principles and chant at least sixteen rounds daily. And as much time as they are able should be devoted for preaching according to our books.

DIKSA THE PROCESS of revealation thru Prabhupada's books.

74-11-22 Letter: Bahurupa
In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.

Note: Our Srimad Bhagavatam is unique because the verses of the Bhagavatam are directly complemented with the purports of Srila Prabhupada, who is the bonafide maha-bhagavata ; therefore, the book Bhagavata and the person Bhagavata are combined in Srila Prabhupada's Srimad Bhagavatam. Therefore, there is no need for a third party, "the so called current Iskcon links" to (mis)interpret what Srila Prabhupada really means to say.

Madhya 15.108
"DIKSA IS THE PROCESS BY WHICH ONE CAN AWAKEN HIS TRANSCENDENTAL KNOWLEDGE and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa."

The potency of Prabhupada's books ---PENETRATE THE HEART---AND INJECT KNOWLEDGE TRANSCENDENTAL --(DIKSA)

SB 1.7.22
The spiritual master, BY HIS WORDS, CAN PENETRATE INTO THE HEART of the suffering person and INJECT KNOWLEDGE TRANSCENDENTAL, which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.

75-03-14 Letter: Sivani
To take SHELTER of the Spiritual Master MEANS TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS.

SB 3.31.48
."one has to associate with liberated persons NOT DIRECTLY, PHYSICALLY, BUT BY UNDERSTANDING, THROUGH PHILOSOPHY AND LOGIC, THE PROBLEMS OF LIFE.

SB 4.31.2
One desiring perfection or liberation SHOULD ASSOCIATE WITH A PERSON WHO IS ALREADY LIBERATED. THIS IS CALLED SADHU-SANGA, ASSOCIATING WITH A PERFECT DEVOTEE.

EK 4
There are two conceptions of presence--the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary, whereas the vibrational conception is eternal. When we enjoy or relish the vibration of Krsna's teachings in Bhagavad-gita, or when we chant Hare Krsna, we should know that by those vibrations He is immediately present. He is absolute, and because of this His vibration is just as important as His physical presence.

WHEN WE FEEL SEPARATION FROM KRSNA OR THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, WE SHOULD JUST TRY TO REMEMBER THEIR WORDS OF INSTRUCTIONS, AND WE WILL NO LONGER FEEL THAT SEPARATION. SUCH ASSOCIATION WITH KRSNA AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER SHOULD BE ASSOCIATION BY VIBRATION, NOT PHYSICAL PRESENCE. THAT IS REAL ASSOCIATION.

We put so much stress on seeing, but when Krsna was present on this earth, so many people saw Him and did not realize that He is God; so what is the advantage of seeing? By seeing Krsna, we will not understand Him, but by listening carefully to His teachings, we can come to the platform of understanding. We can touch Krsna immediately by sound vibration; therefore we should give more stress to the sound vibration of Krsna and of the spiritual master--then we'll feel happy and won't feel
separation.

680818SB.MON Lectures

Prabhupada: Oh, that you should not think. If... The words... There are two conceptions: the physical conception and the vibration conception. So physical conception is temporary. The vibration conception is eternal. Just like we are enjoying or we are relishing the vibration of Krsna's teachings. So by vibration He is present. As soon as we chant Hare Krsna or chant Bhagavad-gita or Bhagavata, so He is present immediately by His vibration. He's absolute. Therefore try to remember His words of instruction; you'll not feel separation. You'll feel that He is with you. So we should associate by the vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association. Sabdad anavrtti. By sound. Just like we are touching Krsna immediately by sound. Sound vibration. SO WE SHOULD GIVE MORE STRESS ON THE SOUND VIBRATION, EITHER OF KRSNA OR OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. THEN WE'LL FEEL HAPPY AND NO SEPARATION.


DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS --- SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE CURRENT ACARYA.

SB 3.29.17
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.

SB 3.29.17
It is recommended herewith that all the acaryas be given the highest respect. It is stated, gurusu nara-matih. GURUSU MEANS "UNTO THE ACARYAS," and nara-matih means "thinking like a common man." To think of the Vaisnavas, the devotees, as belonging to a particular caste or community, to think of the acaryas as ordinary men or to think of the Deity in the temple as being made of stone, wood or metal, IS CONDEMNED.

Adi 7.115
In this connection the Padma Purana states, arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir vaisnave jati-buddhih: "One who considers the arca-murti, the worshipable Deity of Lord Visnu, to be stone, THE SPIRITUAL MASTER TO BE AN ORDINARY HUMAN BEING, and a Vaisnava to belong to a particular caste or creed, is possessed of HELLISH INTELLIGENCE." One who follows such conclusions is doomed.

 


'current link' does NOT mean 'living guru'

Posted in Pada Newsletter July 12/13, 2003

 

Succession - All Challenges Answered

By Deepak Vohra July 12, 2003


DEEPAK KI JAI

3 different people have responded to my request to Rama Kesava Das to support his assumption that the word 'current link' means a physically present 'living guru' with evidence from Srila Prabhupada. They are Ananda Das, Robert Newman and Rama Kesava Das himself. Firstly Ananda Das wrote a lengthy article called "Hundredfold hairsplitting cannot save Rtvik theory". Ananda Prabhu however has helpfully summarised the contents of his article in an abstract. Extracts from this abstract are given enclosed in speech marks " " thus, with my response following underneath.

"ABSTRACT: Deepak Vohra declared that, absent proof, he would not approach an accessible, living guru, but attempt a theoretical relationship with a departed guru." I declared no such thing. My article was only two paragraphs long, in which I simply asked Rama Kesava prabhu to substantiate his speculation that 'current' means 'living'. Ananda needs to read what I actually wrote, and respond to that, instead of responding to some imaginary 'ritvik theory' he thinks I am proposing.

"Ananda das suggests that, even without specific words from Prabhupada requiring aspirants to approach a living guru, such is the clear intent of past practice, as well as of Prabhupada's books and numerous lectures." This is a contradiction. How can a 'clear intent' come from Srila Prabhupada's books and lectures unless expressed in SPECIFIC WORDS? Srila Prabhupada only ever communicates using words, and in order for them to express an intent which is 'clear', they must be 'specific' and clear, not vague and unclear. Yet Ananda prabhu says that this 'clear intent' is evidenced 'even WITHOUT SPECIFIC WORDS'.

"Book-initiation is a meaningless pretense, he says; one must apprentice with a guru capable of administering correction." No one as far as I know has ever proposed 'book initiation.' Certainly not I. Initiation must always be from a spiritual master, not a book. And this idea of 'apprenticing with a guru capable of administering correction', was never practiced by Srila Prabhupada, since he never MET the majority of his disciples, and thus they were never administered 'correction' personally in the capacity of being an apprentice.

So just from the abstract, Ananda prabhu: Makes it clear that he will not be responding to what I actually said, but instead he will answering imaginary 'straw man' 'ritvik theory' arguments. Contradicts the basis of his whole thesis, which is to prove that Srila Prabhupada expressed a clear and specific intent, by saying he did so without needing to use specific words; yet Srila Prabhupada only ever commuinicated via 'specific words' to express a 'clear intent'. He definitely did not use vague words to express something 'clear', and he certainly did not use sign language.

He also proposes a Guru-disciple model that was not practiced by Srila Prabhupada. And since Srila Prabhupada is an acarya, which means he teaches by example, we also know that whatever he did not practice, he did not teach either. Since the abstract gives the substance of the article, we can be sure that the article will not contain any material which will be relevant to either what I said, or what Srila Prabhupada taught, and hence is of no relevance to this debate. Indeed having read the article, I can confirm that all the points which Ananda prabhu makes can actually be responded to by regurgitating the above 3 points. I will give but one example:

Ananda prabhu opens his article by saying:

"Mr. Vohra persists in attributing great importance to the term "current link", declares that it must, a priori and forever into the future, only refer to the ISKCON Founder-Acharya Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, then "challenges" us to find in the "Vedabase" a sentence he himself invented." I never said the term 'current link' must refer to Srila Prabhupada 'forever into the future'. I only asked that Rama Kesava Prabhu substantiate his assertion about what HE declared the term meant.

I also did not ask anyone to find a sentence I invented. I asked Rama Kesava prabhu to substantiate a concept which HE invented, which is that 'current means living'. Rama Kesava prabhu said that "The words 'current link' clearly mean that we must approach a living guru, .". I simply asked where Srila Prabhupada states this speculation, since it was Srila Prabhupada who used the term 'current link', and we can only ascribe to it a meaning that Srila Prabhupada himself gives.

In this way the whole article can be responded to by simply repeating the 3 points made above, with which I responded to his abstract. I therefore humbly suggest that Ananda prabhu re-writes his article so that it both addresses what I actually said, and what Srila Prabhupada specifically said, thus making it of value to this discussion.

Next we come to Robert Newman and Rama Kesava Das's attempts to respond to my request that Rama Kesava Prabhu provide support from Srila Prabhupada to support his speculation that the words "current link' clearly mean that we must approach a living guru".

The reply from Mr. Robert Newman, agrees that no such support can be found from Srila Prabhupada's teachings. However, he states that such support is not necessary since it is a matter of "common sense" that "current link" must mean someone who is physically present. Another reply from Rama Kesava Prabhu also agrees that no such support can be found from Srila Prabhupada's teachings. He also agrees with Mr Newman that no such support is necessary. He gives a different reason however. He states that we can interpret the word "current link" to mean 'physically present', since this is what historical practice would teach us - i.e. all Diksa Gurus previously have been physically present.

However, neither of these methods - "common sense" and "historical practice" - have been sanctioned by Srila Prabhupada as the method by which to understand his words. Without such sanction, everyone can propose his own method by which to understand what Srila Prabhupada's words 'really' mean. Some even say we should understand Srila Prabhupada's words by interpreting them in line with current scientific evidence, or by having them double-checked by Narayana Maharaja etc. Everyone will have his own method. We already have two here from two different individuals. There is no end. That is why we need AUTHORITY from Srila Prabhupada that we can understand his words by a method other than - his words. So before we consider the arguments put forward by Mr Newman and Rama Kesava Das, we first need a statement from Srila Prabhupada sanctioning that their arguments are even valid. Then we can examine the actual arguments in more detail.

Thank You

Your servant,
Deepak


Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!