This story URL: http://iskcon.krishna.org/Articles/2001/10/029.html
"Krishna Kant has completely misrepresented the teachings of Srila Prabhupada on one specific point. He has attempted to prove Srila Prabhupada did not intend any of his disciples to become initiating gurus, ever. This is his unique addition to the ritvik philosophy. He has attempted to prove this point by selectively quoting from Srila Prabhupada and using much word jugglery". Madhudvisa dasa (04-25-05)
My intention in this article is not to enter into the politics of the guru issue or give my own opinions or the opinions of any group of followers of Srila Prabhupada. My interest is to simply present the actual teachings of Srila Prabhupada on a specific point. The reason for this presentation is in his paper, "The Final Order," Krishna Kant has completely misrepresented the teachings of Srila Prabhupada on one specific point.
Krishna Kant has attempted to prove that Srila Prabhupada did not intend any of his disciples to become diksa [initiating] gurus, ever. This is his unique addition to the ritvik philosophy. He has attempted to prove this point by selectively quoting from Srila Prabhupada and using much word jugglery. This rather bizarre philosophy is unique to Krishna Kant and his few followers. It is not shared by the general body of the followers of Srila Prabhupada.
We have on a number of occasions presented clear irrefutable evidence of Srila Prabhupada issuing specific orders to his disciples on become qualified diska gurus. However Krishna Kant is not prepared to even consider Srila Prabhupada's direct instructions on the matter and accept that the conclusion of his paper, "There is no evidence of Srila Prabhupada issuing specific orders for his disciples to become diksa gurus," is completely false and a complete misrepresentation of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.
761210DB.HYD Lectures
So we got this information from His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura,
and that knowledge is still going on. You are receiving through his servant.
And in future the same knowledge will go to your students. This is called
parampara system. Evam parampara prap... It is not that you have
become a student and you'll remain student. No. One day you shall become
also guru and make more students, more students, more. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's
mission, not that perpetually... Yes, one should remain perpetually
a student, but he has to act as guru. That is the mission of Caitanya
Mahaprabhu. It is not that because I am acting as guru, I am no longer
student. No, I am still student. Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught us this instruction
that we shall always remain a foolish student before our Guru Maharaja. That
is the Vedic culture. I may be very big man, but still, I should remain a foolish
student to my guru. That is the qualification. Guru more murkha dekhi' karila
sasana. We should be always prepared to be controlled by the guru. That
is very good qualification. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah. Ara na kariha
mane asa. So we should become always a very obedient student to our guru.
That is the qualification. That is the spiritual qualification.
Here, in December of 1976, only months before his departure from our material vision, Srila Prabhupada clearly orders his disciples to act as gurus in the future. Prabhupada states his disciples will not remain only students. As Srila Prabhupada has received the knowledge from his guru and he is acting as diksa guru by giving the same knowledge to his students, in the same way his students must go on to become diksa gurus and give the same knowledge to their students. Prabhupada is ordering his students to become qualified diksa gurus.. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. The qualification is required: "I should remain a foolish student to my guru. We should always be prepared to be controlled by the guru."
660729BG.NY Lectures
There is no consideration of material impediment. So it is open for everyone.
Catur-varnyam maya srstam. That is a chance given, that you can become
a brahmana, you can become a great devotee of Lord Krsna, and you
can become the spiritual master of the world. That is the... And I
think you should take seriously.
This is a specific order from Srila Prabhupada stating becoming spiritual master of the world is open for all of his disciples. The chance is given and he requests his disciples to take it seriously. Of course it is conditional on the disciples becoming qualified. However the order to become the spiritual master of the world is clearly given. If one becomes the spiritual master of the world he will, of course, accept disciples.
750406CC.MAY Lectures
And to become acarya is not very difficult. First of all,
to become very faithful servant of your acarya, follow strictly what
he says. Try to please him and spread Krsna consciousness. That's all. It is
not at all difficult. Try to follow the instruction of your Guru Maharaja
and spread Krsna consciousness. That is the order of Lord Caitanya.
Here Srila Prabhupada is asking his disciples to become acaryas. He gives the advice "try to become very faithful servant of your acarya, follow strictly what he says. Try to please him and spread Krishna consciousness. That's all. It is not difficult. That is the order of Lord Caitanya." If one is an acarya he will certainly accept disciples. The clear order from Srila Prabhupada to his disciples to become acaryas is here. Of course it is conditional on the disciples being qualified. But Prabhupada has given the order. Any of his disciples can become qualified and accept this order.
680817VP.MON Lectures
Now, this spiritual master's succession is not very difficult.
Of course, my students, they offer me so much respect, but all these respects
are due to my spiritual master. I am nothing. I am just like peon. Just like
peon delivers one letter. He is not responsible for what is written in that
letter. He is not responsible for what is written in that letter. He simply
delivers. But a peon's duty is that he must sincerely carry out the order of
the postmaster and deliver the letter to the proper person. That is their duty.
Similarly, this parampara system is like that. Every one of us should
become a spiritual master because the world is in blazing fire. (aside:)
You can give them prasadam. Now, of course, time is very high. So to
understand the spiritual master... Spiritual master is not a new invention.
It is simply following the orders of the spiritual master. So all my students
present here who are feeling so much obliged... I am also obliged to them because
they are helping me in this missionary work. At the same time, I shall
request them all to become spiritual master. Every one of you should
be spiritual master next. And what is their duty? Whatever you are hearing
from me, whatever you are learning from me, you have to distribute the same
in toto without any addition or alteration. Then all of you become
the spiritual master. That is the science of becoming spiritual master.
Spiritual master is not any... To become a spiritual master is not very wonderful
thing. Simply one has to become sincere soul. That's all. Evam parampara-praptam
imam rajarsayo viduh. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said that "By disciplic
succession this yoga process of Bhagavad-gita was handed down from disciple
to disciple. But in course of time that disciplic succession is now lost. Therefore,
Arjuna, I am teaching you again the same philosophy."
Here Srila Prabhupada orders his disciples to become spiritual master next. Clearly Srila Prabhupada is speaking of the "spiritual master's succession," he is speaking of himself as the current spiritual master and is requesting all of his disciples to "become spiritual master next." Prabhupada is clearly talking of diksa gurus. He mentions becoming a spiritual master depends on the qualification of becoming a sincere soul and simply delivering the message like a 'peon' delivers a letter. He carries the order and delivers it to the proper person. The qualification is required but the clear order to his disciples to become diksa gurus is given yet again.
Songs Purport to
Sri-Sri-Gurv-astakam 690102PU.LA
We should always remember that the spiritual master is in the disciplic
succession. The original spiritual master is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
He blesses his next disciple, just like Brahma. Brahma blesses his next disciple,
just like Narada. Narada blesses his next disciple, just like Vyasa. Vyasa blesses
his next disciple, Madhvacarya. Similarly, the blessing is coming. Just
like royal succession--the throne is inherited by disciplic or hereditary succession--similarly,
this power from the Supreme Personality of Godhead has to receive. Nobody can
preach, nobody can become a spiritual master, without obtaining power from the
right source. Therefore the very word, it is stated here, praptasya.
Praptasya means "one who has obtained." Praptasya kalyana. What he
has obtained? Kalyana. Kalyana means auspicity. He has received something
which is auspicious for all the human kind. Praptasya kalyana-gunarnavasya.
Here is another example. Gunarnava. Arnava means ocean, and guna
means spiritual qualities. Just like the same example is going on. It is
very nice poetry. There is nice rhethorics and metaphor. The example is set,
blazing fire, and it is to be extinguished with the cloud. And wherefrom the
cloud comes? Similarly, wherefrom the spiritual master receives the mercy? The
cloud receives his potency from the ocean. Therefore the spiritual master also
receives his power from the ocean of spiritual quality, that is, from the Supreme
Personality of Godhead. So praptasya kalyana-gunarnavasya. Such kind
of spiritual master, one has to accept, and vande guroh sri-caranaravindam,
and one has to offer his respectful obeisances to such authorized spiritual
master. (end)
Here the system of authorization for the position of diksa guru is given. The blessing is coming down in the disciplic succession. Brahma blesses Narada [and others] Narada blesses Vyasa [and others] and so on. The blessing is coming down. Bhaktsiddhanta blessed Srila Prabhupada [and others] Prabhupada took that blessing and the orders of his spiritual master as his life and soul. Therefore he received the potency to become the spiritual master of the world. Now Prabhupada is blessing his disciples with the same power. But they have to become qualified, they have to accept the orders of their spiritual master as their life and soul. Still the blessing is there, the order is there, the power is there. Any one of Prabhupada's disciples can receive this blessing and the power to become a diksa guru.
710718RC.DET Conversations
Prabhupada: Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are
initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing. Just like I have
got many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples which
I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual
masters.
Here Prabhupada clearly states his disciples are being trained to be future diksa gurus. They will act just as he is acting [ie: they will act as diksa gurus]. Of course they have to become qualified...
770415rc.bom Conversations
Prabhupada: "Like father, like son." You should be. Gaurangera
bhakta..., jane. Everyone. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, amara
ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa. He asked everyone, "Just become guru." Follow
His instruction. You become guru. Amara ajnaya. Don't manufacture ideas.
Amara ajnaya. "What I say, you do. You become a guru." Where is the difficulty?
"And what is Your ajna?" Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa. Bas.
Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. You simply repeat. That's all.
You become guru. To become a guru is not difficult job. Follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu
and speak what Krsna has said. Bas. You become guru.
Here Prabhupada orders his disciples to become guru, just like him (ie: diksa gurus) Once again he mentions the qualifications.
750302BA.ATL Lectures
So you are hearing this philosophy daily. Try to understand more and more. We
have got so many books. And this is the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and,
by disciplic succession, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, then my spiritual master. Then
we are trying our level best. Similarly, you will also try your level best on
the same principle. Then it will go on. Same principle.
It doesn't matter whether one is born in India or outside India. No. When Caitanya
Mahaprabhu said, prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama, "As many towns and
cities and villages are there," He did not say it to make a farce. He is the
Supreme Personality of Godhead. So sometimes I am very much criticized that
I am making foreigners a brahmana. The caste brahmanas in India,
they are very much against me. But this is not fact. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu
said that all over the world His message will be broadcast, does it mean that
it will be simply a cinema show? No. He wanted that everyone should become
perfect Vaisnava. That is His purpose.
Here Srila Prabhupada orders his disciples to try their level best on the same principle as Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Bhaktsiddhanta and himself. Clearly all these devotees acted as diksa gurus and accepted disciples. And Prabhupada orders his disciples to act on the same principle and states "This is the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu." He also mentions the qualification: "everyone should become perfect Vaisnava."
720518AR.LA Lectures
So we have got this message from Krsna, from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, from the six
Gosvamis, later on, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura. And we are
trying our bit also to distribute this knowledge. Now, tenth, eleventh, twelfth...
My Guru Maharaja is tenth from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, I am eleventh, you are
the twelfth. So distribute this knowledge. People are suffering. They are
simply fighting on some false thing, maya. They should be given the real
fact of happiness.
Prabhupada again asserts the message is coming in disciplic succession and, as the Six Goswamis, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Bhaktsiddhanta and he himself have distributed the knowledge, he orders his disciples to distribute the knowledge in the same way. Prabhupada clearly states he is the eleventh link in the disciplic succession and he orders his disciples to "distribute this knowledge" and expects his disciples to become the twelfth link in the disciplic succession. He does not expect the disciplic succession to stop at the eleventh link!!!
68-12-03 Letter: Hamsaduta
Next January there will be an examination on this Bhagavad-gita. Papers
will be sent by me to all centers, and those securing the minimum passing grade
will be given the title as Bhakti-sastri. Similarly, another examination will
be held on Lord Caitanya's Appearance Day in February, 1970 and it will be upon
Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. Those passing will get the
title of Bhakti-vaibhava. Another examination will be held sometimes in 1971
on the four books, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Teachings
of Lord Caitanya, and Nectar of Devotion. One who will pass this
examination will be awarded with the title of Bhaktivedanta. I want that all
of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta,
so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations.
Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples.
Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase
the numbers of the generations. That is my program. So we should
not simply publish these books for reading by outsiders, but our students must
be well versed in all of our books so that we can be prepared to defeat all
opposing parties in the matter of self-realization.
From this statement it is abundantly clear that Prabhupada's mission from the very beginning was to educate his disciples so some of them would become qualified diksa gurus and initiate their own disciples. He wants to transfer the title of Bhaktivedanta and the power to preach and accept disciples to his disciples. He clearly states that "this is my program." The qualification is there... One must pass the examination on all the books... "Our students must be well versed in all of our books so they are prepared to defeat all opposing parties in the matter of self-realization."
Considering the statements of Srila Prabhupada quoted above and the hundreds of others along the same lines it is completely bizarre for Krishna Kant to claim: "There is no evidence of Srila Prabhupada issuing specific orders for his disciples to become diksa gurus." It is the statement of a crazy fellow.
I expect Krishna Kant will come back with pages of nonsense meant to divert the readers attention from the points Srila Prabhupada has clearly established here and claim "I have defeated Madhudvisa." But we will leave it to the thoughtful readers to decide who has actually been defeated.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
Srila Prabhupada's
ritvik instruction, outlined in his letter of July 9, addressed to all
devotees is self- explanatory and anyone can understand it whose brain
substance is not contaminated by bogus philosophy preached by Iskcons
false successor acaryas, self appointed faggots
gurus worshiped in a homosexual paedophile guru lineage. Religious
propagandist and pseudo-gurus disguised as devotees exploiting the
members and assets of the society. -Demoniac Kali-yuga disciples-
"There are many jealous people in the dress of Vaishnavas
in this Krishna Consciousness movement, and they
should be completely neglected. A false acarya may try to override
a vaishnava by a high-court decision, (2/3 hand vote) but Bhaktivinoda
Thakura says that he is nothing but a disciple of Kali-yuga." (CC.Madhy.,
Ch.1, Text 218 / 220, purport)
"A devotee
should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence
but don't surrender your intelligence." (SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)
Isha das: "I have always felt that Srila Prabhupada wanted
those who He appointed Ritvik (as well as other qualified disciples) while
he was with us to act as Guru on His departure."
[PADA: That is the whole mistake --that caused the mass molestation and other problems? Isha and his pals from the Gaudiya Matha thought that SDG, Tamal and company, including their homosexual pals, were "meant to be gurus after Srila Prabhupada's departure." No, they were not. And by worship of molesters "one becomes what one worships," so the whole society became infiltered. And instead of using the society's funds to care for the children, the money was used for lavish living etc. of "the gurus"? And it still is for that matter. And instead of having a controlled society that could keep track of molesters, there were independent mad fool megalamanic guru cults, and all of this sprouted from this idea that "Srila Prabhupada wanted the GBC to be gurus right after his departure."]
Srila Prabhupada: Don't be allured by cheap disciples. Go on steadfastly to render service first. If you immediately become guru, then the service activities will be stopped; and as there are so many cheap gurus and cheap disciples, without any substantial knowledge, and manufacturing new sampradayas, and with service activities stopped, and all spiritual progress choked up. (SPL (VI 1987) 68.8.17)Jahnu
das writes:
"It is foolish beyond measure to impose the condition on Srila Prabhupada
that he has to state 48 times that he wanted his disciples to become gurus.
Where did Krishna Kant get that idea? Isn't it enough that Srila Prabhupada,
as shown below consistently and explicitly expressed his desire for his
disciples to succeed him as guru"
Reply to Jahnu's article - "Krishna Kant - Master Of Evasion"
March 30, 1999, by Urdhvaga Das
Dear Jahnu das,
if anything is foolish beyond measure, then it is people like yourself,
who are averse to Srila Prabhupada's continued position as diksa / siksa
guru. Please do not think that Srila Prabhupada is dead. Certainly those
reason ill who think so.
The problem with you people is that you rather like to follow self-appointed
bogus Iskcon gurus (conditioned souls who fall down after some time)
then to take shelter unto Srila Prabhupada.
Why do you insist on worshiping false gurus? That is your problem.
I believe that the recent departure of your initiating guru Harikesa who,
like a ordinary conditioned soul, is enjoying household life, has clouded
somewhat your spiritual understanding. If the blind follows the blind,
then both will fall into the ditch. So please do not become averse to
Srila Prabhupada and take shelter at his lotus feet.
Urdhvaga das: Of course Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to succeed him as guru. Definitely he wanted it, but, but, but, and here lies the big problem, he wanted qualified disciples, he wanted qualified gurus, not some show-bottle gurus, imitator gurus, self-appointed gurus, zonal-acarya gurus, woman-hater gurus, woman-lover gurus, homo-sex-gurus, harassing gurus, ex-communicating gurus, children-abusing gurus, murder-gurus, poison gurus, guru-killer gurus, disco gurus, cow-seller gurus, marijuana gurus, LSD gurus, gopi gurus, reformed gurus, no-mangala-arotik gurus, no-japa gurus, bunglow-sannyasi gurus, retreat gurus, Monika-varnasrama gurus, 3-regulative principles gurus, demon-crazy gurus, movie-mall-menaka gurus, 2/3 hand voted-in gurus, current-link gurus, etc, etc, etc.
Srila Prabhupada said: "First become qualified". We have nothing against any Iskcon gurus, but they first should aquire some qualification and not imitate.
Of course, a father likes to see his son to follow him. Of course a high-court judge likes to see his son to succeed him, but first the son has to qualify himself, otherwise he can not take the position of the father. If he tries without qualification to imitate the father, that means cheating, impostor, bogus.
Srila
Prabhupada: "I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our
students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they
have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru
and become guru themselves". "As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is
dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru
and become guru. Then he is finished." (Srila Prabhupada
1976).
We
should not be fooled by all those 2/3 hand voted in, self-appointed bogus
Isk con gurus, who like ordinary conditioned souls, are falling down
after some time, and who are preaching bogus philosophy such as the "current
link philosophy", in support of "voted
in successor acaryas", with a "less
then liberated guru thesis" and a "minimum
qualification theory", for adapting their "homosexual
pedophile guru lineage" of conditioned souls into the pure guru-parampara,
excluding Srila Prabhupada as a non physical link. This "current
link philosophy" (http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/themes/charu.htm)
is completely nonsensical in any context and is not confirmed by shastra
and is a negation of Srila Prabhupada's presence in his "vani".
It is simply the same old bogus philosophy which has caused so much chaos
in our movement.
It is heartbreaking
to see how new disciples in Iskcon are forced to worship their "present
day living survivor gurus" (who fall down after some time),
being denied direct access to and through Srila Prabhupada. Iskcon devotees
are forced to see their so called "current living links"
on the same platform as Srila Prabhupada, infallible equal in all respect,
with the same worship. Prabhupada is secondary because he is not
a living guru. ???
A
"LIVING" SPIRITUAL MASTER ??? (Morning Walk,
Seattle, 2/10/68)
MADHUDVISA: Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a
Spiritual Master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the
words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?
SRILA PRABHUPADA: I don't follow.
TAMALA KRISHNA GOSWAMI: Can a Christian in this age, without a Spiritual Master, but by reading the Bible, and following Jesus's words, reach the ...
SRILA PRABHUPADA: When you read the Bible, you follow the Spiritual Master. How can you say without. As soon as you read the Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. That means that you are following the Spiritual Master. So where is the opportunity of being without Spiritual Master.
MADHUDVISA: I was referring to a living Spiritual Master.
SRILA PRABHUPADA: Spiritual Master is not question of ... Spiritual Master is eternal...so your question is 'without Spiritual Master'. Without Spiritual Master you cannot be at any stage of your life. You may accept this Spiritual master or that Spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible", when you read Bible that means you are following the Spiritual Master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ.
BHAKTICHARU
SWAMI'S "CURRENT LINK" BUNK
The "living guru" project advocates
maintain that Srila Prabhupada can no longer give us specific instructions
or share loving exchanges with us, because he is dead, although Srila
Prabhupada states the opposite, namely that he will personally guide us
through his books.
750716pc.sf
Conversations
Reporter (2): What will happen to the movement in the United States
when you die?
Prabhupada: I WILL NEVER DIE.
Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupada: I SHALL LIVE From MY BOOKS, AND YOU WILL UTILIZE.
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Prabhupada: Yes, my Guru Maharaja is there. Where is my photo of
Guru Maharaja? I think... Here is.
Indian Lady:
... is that spiritual master still
guiding after death?
Srila Prabhupada:
Yes, yes. Just like Krsna is guiding us, similarly spiritual master will
guide us. (General lectures, 69/09/23)
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada when you're not present with us , how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise...
SRILA
PRABHUPADA: Well the questions are answ... answers are
there in my books.
(Morning Walk, Los Angeles, 13/5/73)
So utilise whatever time you find to
make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions
will be answered. (Letter to Upendra, 7/1/76)
Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered. ( Letter to Randhira, 24/01/70)
If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way. (BTG 13:1-2, December 1977)
74-11-22 Letter: Bahurupa
In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY
so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have
to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED
TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.
Note: This clearly indicates that Srila Prabhupada's
books are understood through their own potency, and that there is therefore
no need for a physically present guru to understand the books. Our Srimad
Bhagavatam is unique because the verses of the Bhagavatam are directly
complemented with the purports of Srila Prabhupada, who is the bonafide
maha-bhagavata ; therefore, the book Bhagavata and the person
Bhagavata are combined in Srila Prabhupada's Srimad Bhagavatam.
Therefore, there is no need for a third party, "the so called current
Iskcon links" to (mis)interpret what Srila Prabhupada "really
means to say". sic
Urdhvaga: We should not deceive ourselves into thinking that
Iskcons conditioned souls are infallible gurus. We rather should take
shelter with Srila Prabhupada, who is the perfect guru for all. He will
never disappoint us. Srila Prabhupada is still available for anyone who
is sincere in his heart, but if Prabhupad is substituted for ordinary
souls posing as absolute gurus, then one certaily will be deceived.
It
is such an impudence and arrogance of Iskcon kanistha-gurus
to teach their disciples such bogus philosophy. New devotees are not even
being allowed to accept Srila Prabhupada as their siksha-guru, or instructing
spiritual master, what to speak of diksa-guru, although Srila Prabhupada
says: "I'll always be with you in that way".
Isk con gurus are claiming from their disciples both positions, to be
their initiating as well as the instructing guru. So where does Srila
Prabhupada comes in? Is he not needed anymore?. Because
of Bhakti Charus nonsense "living link"
philosophy: "Now that Srila Prabhupada is no longer physically present........"
new devotees are forced to worship fallible gurus in a bogus current link
sampradaya, excluding Srila Prabhupada in the chain of disciplic
succession.
Bhakti Charu,
why are you stopping devotees from accepting Srila Prabhupada as their
shiksa-guru? Are you better then Srila Prabhupada? Why are you forcing
devotees to accept self-appointed, bogus Iskcon gurus, who fall down after
some time? Why can't they accept Srila Prabhupada, when he says he is
always with us through his books? Or could it be, that devotees can't
understand the books anymore because Jayadvaita changed them?
Of course, one has to understand the message of the Bhagavatam
through the person Bhagavata. That is why Srila Prabhupada wrote his own
purports. Our Srimad Bhagavatam is unique because the verses of the Bhagavatam
are directly complemented with the purports of Srila Prabhupada, who is
the bonafide maha-bhagavata ; therefore, the book Bhagavata and
the person Bhagavata are combined in Srila Prabhupada's Srimad Bhagavatam.
Therefore, there is no need for a third party, "the so called current
Iskcon links" to (mis)interpret what Srila Prabhupada "really
means to say."
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Urdhvaga
Das
Original Story URL: http://iskcon.krishna.org/Articles/2000/07/00053.html
[PADA: Isha is still pouding the drum for the enforced cult
ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophile regime, founded by the poisoners
of Srila Prabhupada and backed by the G Matha, as Srila Prabhupada's desire?
No, it is not. He specifically did not want bogus gurus, homosexual gurus,
etc.]
Srila Prabhupada: "I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru and become guru themselves". "As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished." (Srila Prabhupada 1976).
GURU CHEATING NOT EFFECTIVE (April 22.77).
Prabhupada: People complained against [a GBC for trying to appear as a
guru]. ...You become guru, but you must be QUALIFIED FIRST of all. THEN you
become. ...What is the use of producing some RASCAL GURU?
Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples,
and it's clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, so we CANNOT BE gurus.
MAYBE someday it may be possible....
Prabhupada: Hm. [agrees]
Tamala Krishna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru,
'No you become acharya. You become authorized.' I retire completely. But the
training must be COMPLETE.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there. ...No rubber
stamp.
Prabhupada: You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our
Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and "guru."
What kind of guru?
Srila
Prabhupada:
We haven't got to manufacture. To manufacture ideas is troublesome. Why should
we take the trouble? And as soon as you want to manufacture something to my....,
that is DANGEROUS. ...That you are singing every day, "what our guru
has said, that is our life and soul." ...As soon as this POISON will
come -suppress guru and I become Brahman- everything FINISHED. Spiritual life
is finished. Gaudiya Matha finished, ...VIOLATED the orders of Guru Maharaja.
...And as soon as you manufacture, fall down. This manufacturing idea
is very, very dangerous in spiritual life. ...Our mission is to serve bhakta
visesa and live with devotees. NOT THAT YOU TAKE THE PLACE OF GURU. THAT IS
NONSENSE, VERY DANGEROUS. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you
become AMBITIOUS to TAKE THE PLACE of GURU-gurusuh nara matih. That is MATERIAL
DISEASE.
Srila Prabhupada:
Don't be allured by cheap disciples. Go on steadfastly to render service first.
If you immediately become guru, then the service activities will be stopped;
and as there are so many cheap gurus and cheap disciples, without any substantial
knowledge, and manufacturing new sampradayas, and with service activities
stopped, and all spiritual progress choked up. (SPL (VI 1987) 68.8.17)
Srila
Prabhupada:
"This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away
by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator
guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am
teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually
come to this platform. This is what I want." (to Madhudvisa 4 Aug, 1975)
YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR
...
In 1979-1980, one of the living gurus [Tamal Krishna] had
incensed the others by claiming that he possessed Prabhupada's exclusive "guru
shakti" or potency. The other gurus were thus considering how to excommunicate
this deviant guru brother. But in December 1980, at the Topanga
Canyon Pyramid House Talks, California, Tamal made a dramatic turnabout.
He admitted that Srila Prabhupada had never appointed any "living successor"
gurus:
Tamal Krishna: "Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He did not appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritvik (officiating priests). He never appointed them as gurus. Myself and the other G.B.C. have done the greatest disservice to this movement for the last three years, because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus....
"(What Srila Prabhupada said was), "All right, I will appoint so many,' and he named them. He made it very clear that they (new members) were still to be his disciples. At that point it was very clear in my mind that they were his disciples....
"Now I understand that what he did was very clear. He was physically incapable of performing the function of initiating physically; therefore he appointed officiating priests to initiate on his behalf. He appointed eleven and he said very clearly, 'Whoever is nearest, he can initiate.'
"This is a very important point, because when it comes to initiating, it is not 'whoever is nearest.' It is wherever your heart goes_to whom you can repose your faith in.
"But when it is officiating, it's 'whoever is nearest,' and he was very clear.... 'Whoever is nearest will check you out. Then, on my behalf, they will initiate....'"
"If it had been more than that (officiating priests), you can bet your bottom dollar that Prabhupada would have spoken for days and hours and weeks on end about how to set up this thing with the gurus.... But he did not, because he already said it a million times. He said, 'My guru maharaja did not appoint anyone. It is by qualification.' We made a great mistake...."
"You cannot show me anything on tape or in writing where Prabhupada says, 'I appoint these eleven as gurus.' It does not exist, because He never appointed any gurus. This is a myth."
So here Tamal Krishna admits that there never was an appointment of regular gurus; Srila Prabhupada only appointed rtviks (officiating priests). However, he assumes that after Srila Prabhupada left, that it was "only natural" for those eleven rtviks and then more that would be added later, to become regular gurus, even though Srila Prabhupada never instructed such a thing.
Although there was no appointment of anything but ritviks, at Topanga Canyon Tamal thinks that regular gurus can be self-appointed. Of course, his future statements and writings contradict this thesis and themselves in a maze of confusing mumbo-jumbo.
Srila Prabhupada: "This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This is what I want." (to Madhudvisa 4 Aug, 1975)