Srila Prabhupada on Vapuh Versus Vani
Srila Prabhupada
Srila Prabhupada:

"Therefore, one must
take advantage of
the Vani (the words
of the spiritual
master) not the
physical Presence"
Iskcon Vapu-Vadis

The Vapu-Vadis

only worship the
physical form

trampling on Srila
Prabhupada's words
and instructions.

"Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence." 

Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words.

There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence
. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence. (CC, Antya 5 Conclusion)

Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence. (Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)

I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja. (Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you. (Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection. (Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association. (Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krsna or the Spirirual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krsna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association. (Elevation to Krsna Consciousness,(BBT 1973), Page 57)

It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life. (SB 3:31:48)

I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent. (Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)

Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.
Srila Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important. (Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 6/10/77)

You write that you have desire to avail of my association again, but why do you forget that you are always in association with me? When you are helping my missionary activities I am always thinking of you, and you are always thinking of me . That is real association. Just like I am always thinking of my Guru Maharaja at every moment, although he is not physically present, and because I am trying to serve him to my best capacity, I am sure he is helping me by his spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as preceptorial association. (Letter to Govinda Dasi, 18/8/69)

As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krsna there, and following my instructions, reading the books, taking only Krsna prasadam etc., then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Caitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on. (Letter to Bala Krsna, 30/6/74)

'Anyone who has developed unflinching faith in the Lord and the Spiritual Master can understand the revealed scripture unfolding before him'. So continue your present aptitude and you will be successful in your spiritual progress. I am sure that even if I am not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute all spiritual duties in the matter of Krsna Consciousness, if you follow the above principles. (Letter to Subala, 29/9/67)

So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living. (General lectures, 69/01/13)

Devotee: sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'
Srila Prabhupada: Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words. (SB Lectures, 71/08/18)

Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically. (Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 2/5/77)

So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that does not mean, Krsna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean, prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not matter. (Lectures SB 73/12/11)

So, spiritually, there is no question of separation, even physically we may be in far distant place. (Letter to Syama Dasi, 30/08/68)

I went to your country for spreading this information of Krsna Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you. (Letter to Nandarani, Krsna Devi and Subala, 3/10/67)

We are not separated actually. There are two - Vani or Vapuh - so Vapu is physical presence and Vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same. (Letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70)

So in the absence of physical presentation of the spiritual master, the Vaniseva is more important. My Spiritual Master Sarsavati Goswami, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I try to serve his instruction, I never feel separated from him. (Letter to Karandhara, 22/8/70)

I also do not feel separation from my Guru Maharaja. When I am engaged in his service, his pictures give me sufficient strength. To serve master's word is more important than to serve him physically. (Letter to Syamasundara, 19/7/70)

SB 4.28.47
The disciple and spiritual master are never separated because the spiritual master always keeps company with the disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the spiritual master. This is called the association of vani (words). Physical presence is called vapuh. As long as the spiritual master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master.

SB 4.28.51
In conclusion, if a disciple is very serious to execute the mission of the spiritual master, he immediately associates with the Supreme Personality of Godhead by vani or vapuh. This is the only secret of success in seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Instead of being eager to see the Lord in some bush of Vrndavana while at the same time engaging in sense gratification, if one instead sticks to the principle of following the words of the spiritual master, he will see the Supreme Lord without difficulty.

770517ar.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: So I cannot speak. I am feeling very weak. I was to go to other places like Chandigarh program, but I cancelled the program because the condition of my health is very deteriorating. So I preferred to come to Vrndavana. If death takes place, let it take here. So there is nothing to be said new. Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor. Whether I am present or not present, it doesn't matter. As Krsna is living eternally, similarly, living being also lives eternally. But KIRTIR YASYA SA JIVATI: "ONE WHO HAS DONE SERVICE TO THE LORD LIVES FOREVER." So you have been taught to serve Krsna, and with Krsna we'll live eternally. Our life is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. A temporary disappearance of this body, it doesn't matter. Body is meant for disappearance. Tatha dehantara-praptih. So live forever by serving Krsna. Thank you very much.

by Harinam Das (4/12/98)

It is clear that the ISKCON vapu-vadis (worshipers of the physical body as opposed to transcendental knowledge) do not have the mercy of Lord Caitanya and the holy name. Krishna's holy name alone is sufficient to deliver all the fallen souls and bestow the highest perfection of life - Krishna prema; but the rubber stamped diksa vapuvadis do not accept this basic fact of Lord Caitanya's sankirtan movement and insist on their own worship as "diksa-guru".

Beware, they simply want to enjoy the status of being adored as "gods" without realizing the essential meaning of the vani of Lord Caitanya and His pure servants. They only know the rigid formality of "guru worship" stated in the Vedas. They do not know that Krishna Himself has come to again transcend the Vedas in the form of Lord Caitanya and His sankirtan movement. There is no longer the absolute need of a "living diksa-guru" to give transcendental knowledge to the disciple in the presence of the book Bhagavata and sufficient purports by the mahabhagavata (Srila Prabhupada), as well as the sankirtan movement.

With the mercy of the holy name alone all purports of the Vedas are revealed (ecstatic Krishna prema). The holy name does not even wait for formal diksa initiation, then what to speak of with the presence of the book Bhagavata, the siksa-guru/officiating acarya (ritvik) who simply officiates the formality of the diksa fire sacrifice and spiritual name to the sincere disciple on behalf of Prabhupada???

"By chanting the holy name of the Lord, one dissolves his entanglement in material activities. After this, one becomes very attracted to Krsna, and thus dormant love for Krsna is awakened. 'The holy name of Lord Krsna is an attractive feature for many saintly, liberal people. It is the annihilator of all sinful reactions and is so powerful that save for the dumb who cannot chant it, it is readily available to everyone, including the lowest type of man, the candala. The holy name of Krsna is the controller of the opulence of liberation, and it is identical with Krsna. Simply by touching the holy name with one's tongue, immediate effects are produced. Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities or the purascarya regulative principles generally observed before initiation. The holy name does not wait for all these activities. It is self-sufficient.' " (Caitanya CaritamrtaMadhya 15.110; Padyavali 29 by Srila Rupa Gosvami)

Whether a Vaisnava is properly initiated or not is not a subject for consideration. One may be initiated and yet contaminated by the mayavada philosophy, but a person who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly will not be so contaminated. A properly initiated Vaisnava may be imperfect, but one who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly is all-perfect. (Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 15:111 purport)

Therefore Prabhupada stressed the sankirtan pastimes of Lord Caitanya as the all perfect platform of spiritual existence as well as the ritvik officiating acarya initiation system. Clearly, there is no absolute need for worshiping a "living diksa-guru" when there is the book bhagavata and the holy names. The vapuvadis only go for the formality of Vedic tradition and not the substance as given by Lord Caitanya as His pure servants.

What they have created instead is a bogus "rubber stamped diksa-guru" system instead of following the founder acarya's orders for an officiating acarya initiating system in ISKCON with him the founder acarya at the center. The heretics mistake his (Prabhupada's) books to be more important than his direct personal instructions and example to his GBC and temple president managers for post samadhi ISKCON initiations. Absolute successor diksa-gurus, if any, can simply branch out from ISKCON to start a new mission and branch of disciples as is the Vedic tradition.

Is this guru lust or just the desire to become like god ???


Being in place and functioning in ISKCON for several years since 1973, Prabhupada's ritvik representative or officiating acarya initiation system is nothing new. It is basically officiating preists of the diksa-guru Srila Prabhupada performing the formal initiation ceremony and fire sacrifice in his absence. This allows new devotees to be trained as Prabhupada's disciples through his senior disciples acting as siksa-gurus, his books as diksa instructions, and the Deity worship and sankirtan program as sadhana devotional service.

This is the best guru arrangement for fulfilling Prabhupada's mission and spreading Lord Caitanya's sankirtan movement because it has the continuity of one diksa-guru to last indefinitely as opposed to the short lifetime of the "appointed living-gurus". This continuity unites all the followers of Prabhupada's teachings past, present, and future as disciples of Krishna's empowered pure devotee, jagat diksa-guru, and founder acarya of ISKCON, thus ever increasing their numbers. However, the present appointed "living guru" system simply divides Prabhupada's followers into "guru factions" and when the living gurus leave their body, their disciples are then alienated from the society's shelter, which successively decreases ISKCON's size and transcendental potency.

Furthermore, the ritvik officiating acarya initiation system is the best way to safeguard the integrity of ISKCON from "neophyte absolute successor diksa-gurus" by having them branch out to form their own new branch of disciples/institution as is the timeless Vedic tradition. Everyone is welcomed to represent the diksa-guru Srila Prabhupada as vartma-pradarsaka-gurus and siksa-gurus in his ISKCON mission thereby continuing the training of new disciples in the parampara.

Srila Prabhupada set up the ritvik system in ISKCON to initiate his disciples in his absence, which he ordered to be continued after his disappearance. With his massive international book distribution of Vedic classical scriptures Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, and Caitanya Caritamrta and his thousands of disciples and 108 temples worldwide, Srila Prabhupada has done what no acarya has done heretofore i.e. the establishment of Lord Caitanya's sankirtan movement on a self-perpetuating and truly global scale.

By Krishna's will, Srila Prabhupada has created and established one sastra, one sadhu community, and one diksa-guru for the entire world until hell freezes over. We simply must continue his plan and the highest success is guaranteed.


Editorial (VNN) - by Radhakrsna das 09/12/1998 - 2206


This essay describes the various attempts made by individuals, to NOT to follow the clear instructions and words, of Srila Prabhupada, in the name of the multifarious counter-checks of "guru/sastra/sadhu," "not in his books" and other excuses.


1. The PLSBPS-VADA SYNDROME. Or the pre-liberated Sarvabauma Battacarya pastime syndrome. Sarvabauma was an eternal associate of Lord Chaitanya. But in this pastime, he pretended to be a dry logician and preached to Lord Chaitanya his interpretation of the vedas, for 7 days. Lord Chaitanya said that he understood the vedic slokas very clearly, they were like the sun, but his (Sarvabauma's) interpretations were like a cloud and obscured the clear meaning of the vedas. Sarvabauma pretended to be confused in this pastime, and then was liberated by Lord Chaitanya.

Similarly, Srila Prabhupada has made clear instructions on this current controversy. (See appendix below.) But it has been the fashion for disciples to second-guess what Srila Prabhupada actually meant to say. They will cross reference his instructions with folio research and try to "approve" or discredit his final instructions. This resembles a lawyer trying to find a "loophole" to invalidate the clear evidence. Many criminals have walked away from the courtroom, due to such "loopholes." But a simple devotee will see the clear hypocrisy in such things, and try to follow Lord Chaitanya's instructions in this pastime, not to cloud the clear instructions of Srila Prabhupada by cross reference and over-intelligent interpretations. Let us try to liberate ourselves, just as Lord Chaitanya liberated Sarvabauma in that pastime. Srila Prabhupada said what he meant, and meant what he said. We do not need to strain our brains to figure out what he said, rather we need to accept his words in the simple mood of following, in the mood of being his simple servants.

2. Second is the SUKARACARYA-VADA SYNDROME. Bali Maharaja was given a clear request from Vamanadeva. Sukaracarya tryed to dissuade Bali from following Vamana's request, because Sukaracarya knew that Vamana was Lord Visnu, and he knew what the consequences would be. He was a smarta-brahmana, and he was worried about his personal income and welfare. Because of his vested interests, he was willing to circumvent the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

It appears that some have placed personal interests and income and job security, etc, ahead of the clear orders of Srila Prabhupada. The purport of this should be clear to the readers. This only results in chaos and dissatisfaction of the spiritual master, which reeks havoc in spiritual life.

3. Third is the SONS OF YAYATI-VADA SYNDROME. Maharaja Yayati was cursed to old age, and he requested his sons to trade their youth with him, so on. He asked the first son, but was flatly refused. He asked the other sons, so on, we know the story. Finally the good son obeys his father.

The purport is- BAD SONS disobey, whereas GOOD SONS obey the father. The good son anticipates the desire of his sire and he obeys even before the instruction is given. With proper reflection, we can surmise what the spirit of Srila Prabhupada's desire was for the continuance of his movement, and this, obviously, involved his instructions of initiation. We have seen by the present guru system that chaos has indeed ensued. The current system does NOT reflect the spirit of Prabhupada's desires. A guru falls and the disciples either bloop or they fight reform and get fanatical and hold on to the defunct guru. Or some disciples become sober, if they are intelligent. In Srila Prabhupada's ritvik system, none of that would have happened. If the ritvik acarya fell, it would not be consequential. The disciple would go on in his faith. Also, 95% of Prabhupada's direct disciples would not have been driven away.

So many Prabhupada disciples still disbelieve the plan of ritvik after departure. Partly this is because they have not studied the situation and read the material. They give the same arguments over and over, which are defeated already in TFO. I've talked to them, and they haven't read the TFO, or they skimmed it. Also, they fail to realize that Srila Prabhupada was capable to see the future, to see what is happening right now. He was tri-kala-jnana, so it is not hard to understand that he ordered a ritvik system, in order to counteract what he knew would happen in the future.

So, the good son will see the obvious instructions of Srila Prabhupada and try to follow and stop the continuing chaos. The good son would try to pull Srila Prabhupada's movement back together, by following Srila Prabhupada's simple instructions, which were given clearly in the first place.

4. Fourth, we have the JARASANDHA-VADA SYNDROME. Jarasandha was a demon in Krishna's pastimes, who was defeated 17 times by Krishna, but still he was puffed up and ill advised by his counselors, and he still thought that he could defeat Krishna in the end. This is the power of Maya, in making puffed up people think they can still win, even after overwhelming defeats in the past.

In our situation, in the not so distant past, we have seen 6 fall from the original 11gurus. We have seen huge chaos as the result. The leaders should have learned our lesson from that. But no, like Jarasandha, they failed to see the guru system as defunct and faulty. We continued with cosmetic alterations only. And now the 7th has clearly fallen, and the Jarasandha-vada-like leaders still insist on the defunct guru system. It has failed so many times, and caused complete havoc in the spiritual lives of thousands of innocent people, but still they want to defy the clear ins
tructions of Srila Prabhupada, and continue on this suicidal path of chaos. This is the amazing power of Maya and attachment to one's material situation.


We should educate ourselves on what Prabhupada said and read the TFO. We should all pull together, and give up the faulty syndromes of faulty logic and mis-following of instruction. We should do it for Srila Prabhupada. We should do it for ourselves and for the sake of the world and humanity.


APPENDIX- How can they say there's no evidence, or its all speculation, or philosophically unsound? When the real evidence comes from Prabhupada's words and orders?

A. FROM THE BOOKS: (claim- "there's no evidence in the books." Wrong.) From Adi-lila 1.46: "..the spiritual master is always considered either one of the confidential associates of Srimati Radharani or a manifested representation of Srila Nityananda Prabhu." 2. "When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport) - Note: from these statements, we understand that Srila Prabhupada could not have "appointed" or "ordered" the original 11 men, or ANYBODY to be such a "confidential associate of Srimati Radharani." How could they be "ordered' when 7 biggies fall down hard and some became crazy?? Srila Prabhupada said that the bona fide acarya DOES NOT fall down-

Quotes from books, etc. - "Well if he is bad, how can he become a guru?" (The Science of Self Realization, chapter 2) "The pure devotee is always free from the clutches of Maya and her influence." (S.B. 5.3.14) "There is no possibility that a first class devotee will fall down." (C.c. Madhya, 22.71) "A spiritual master is always liberated." (Letter to TKG)

B. SASTRA - (claim - "no sastric evidence") The term "ritvik" is found many places in Srimad Bhagavatam. For one thing, there is no sastric forbidding of a post-samadhi ritvik system. No mention does not mean that a great acarya cannot implement according to time and circumstance. Managerial decisions in deep dark Kali Yuga are not described by sastra, and adjustment can be made by the great acarya. Sastra definitely does say that the empowered GREAT ACARYA can order according to time and circumstance, not being bound by rules, or "NOT SUBJECTED to any Vedic rules or regulations"-

"Therefore the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Isvara Puri is not subjected to any Vedic rules and regulations" (C.c. Madhya, 10.137) AND - "As Hari is not subject to the criticism of mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subjected." (C.c. Madhya, 10.136, text and purport) (clearly Prabhupada wanted this system, due to time and circumstance, seeing how unqualified aspirants could do harm to his movement.)

C. SADHU - (claim- there's no support from sadhus) We should seek advice from sadhus, BUT ONLY accept instructions that are IN LINE with our own founder-acarya. From book- Sri Krsna Bhajanamrta, by sadhu- Srila Narahari Sarakara.-

Verse 48: "A disciple may hear some instruction from another advanced Vaisnava, but after gaining that good instruction he must bring it and present it to his own spiritual master. After presenting them he should hear the same teachings again from his spiritual master with appropriate instructions." And- Verse 49: "...a disciple who listens to the words of other Vaisnavas, even if their instructions are proper and true, but does not re-confirm those teachings with his own spiritual master and instead directly personally accepts these instructions, is considered a bad disciple and a sinner."


1. July 9th letter. Its signed and authorization is explained in TFO. 2. His will - "The system of management will continue AS IT IS NOW and there is no need of any change" and "provided the new director is my initiated disciple following strictly.") 3. Letters and conversations- "continue to become ritvik and act on my charge" "Make your own field and continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf.' so on÷ TKG- "process of initiation to be followed in the future÷" 4. The tape of May 28th÷ "when you are no longer with us," answer- "ritviks." Parts of tape are in question, but Srila Prabhupada does not contradict himself, saying ritvik, then something else in the next paragraph. Rather he answered the question point blank, saying "deputy, or ritvik," understanding what "no longer with us" means. The rest of the tape cannot be accepted as evidence, as we strongly suspect tampering with the tape, as dubbing sounds are made, background noises change, as 2 experts said, "falsification." This tampering has happened before, in LA with his tapes and letters, just ask the LA devotees.

E. OTHER EVIDENCE FROM PRABHUPADA'S WORDS- (just a few of many quotes)

Srila Prabhupada: "He, [Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, founder of the Gaudiya Matha] before passing away, he gave them all direction - and he NEVER said that this man should be the next [guru] acharya. But these people, just after he passed away, they began to fight, 'Who shall be the next acharya? That is the failure. They never thought, 'guru maharaja gave us instruction on so many things, why did he not say, "This man should be the next acharya?"' They wanted to create somebody ARTIFICIALLY as acharya and EVERYTHING FAILED. They did not even consider COMMON SENSE - that if guru maharaja had wanted to APPOINT somebody as acharya, why he did not say? He said so many things and this point he missed? The main point? And they insisted on it. They declared, 'COME ON UNFIT PERSONS to become acharya,' then another man comes, THEN ANOTHER, then another. So better to remain a foolish person perpetually to be directed by guru maharaja. So that is perfection. And as soon as it was announced that, 'Guru maharaja is dead, now I am so advanced that I can kill my guru and become [guru]'." (CONV 8/15/76) (Does this hit the nail on the head?)

Tamala Krishna: "The process of purification must be there. ...No rubber stamp." Srila Prabhupada: "YOU CAN CHEAT, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and "guru." What kind of Guru? The result is that now everyone is claiming to be [guru] acharya even though they may be kanistha adhikary [spiritual neophytes], with no ability to preach. In some camps, the [guru] acharya is being changed three times a year. Therefore, we may not commit the same MISTAKE in our ISKCON camp." (4/28/74) (Well, did we make the SAME MISTAKE, or not?)

"... his associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acharya and later it proved to be a failure. The result is that now EVERYONE is claiming to be some camps the acharya is being CHANGED three times a year. Therefore amongst my Godbrothers NO ONE IS QUALIFIED to become acharya. So it is better NOT TO MIX with my Godbrothers very intimately," (How do 100 gurus from America become more qualified than the Vedic born disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta?)

Note- How can we assume that the alleged "order" to be "eternal gurus" were made in May 77, just a few years later, after understanding the above quotes? Do not the results confirm the above warnings?


1. Yasodanandana dasa's dairy entry of his conversation with TKG- "After departure?," said Yasoda. TKG said, "they'll be ritvik, its all on tape." Alas, the tapes were never to be found. Where are they? 2. Gauridas Pandit witnessed (right after July 9th letter) what Srila Prabhupada said, as he fanned him, 2 feet away- Srila Prabhupada said "ritvik after departure." Who do you believe? After the Topanga confession, I certainly believe Gauridas. He is a simple devotee who only wants this movement to succeed. He had no motive to exaggerate. On the other hand, the Gosvami confessed the same to be true later at Topanga, and then tried to hide his confession, and now everybody seems to ignore this glaring fact. The truth here is not hard to see, that is, for the simple in heart. 3. Satsvarupa Maharaja, Tamala Krishna Goswami, Jayadvaita Swami, and other GBCs sometimes refer to "pre-ritvik" conversations which would have taken place before May 28th. For example, in December 1980, at Topanga temple, Tamala Krishna discussed how five or six men went to see Srila Prabhupada and they discussed the ritvik guru (officiating on behalf of Srila Prabhupada) instruction. Many suspect that certain GBCs have destroyed the tapes of these talks. It would not have supported the "guru appointment" theory.

I hope this message rests well, and I hope we unite together in the service of Srila Prabhupada's simple instructions and effectuate a true revival, and not cosmetic patchwork.

Your simple servant
Radhakrsna das

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