PADA Newsletter Jan. 10,  2000

poison plot
Date: 10. Jan. 2000
From: angel108b@yahoo.com (pada)

New Audio site
PADA EDITORIAL
1) POISON THREAT TO NARAYANA MAHARAJA
2) Puru on ritvik
3) POISON ISSUED CONFIRMED BY SCIENCE Halayudha on poison CD


Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

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From: ZMANVAN
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 21:43:09 EST
Subject: New Prabhupadanuga Web-Page http://www.krishna.org
To: angel108b@yahoo.com

Dear Prabhu
AGTSP PAMHO. Devotees devotees desiring to hear Srila Prabhupada Lectures
can now visit our SP RealPlayer G2 Lecture Library at
http://www.krishna.org and hear the sacred vani of His Divine Grace online.
RealPlayer G2 is required and a free download on the site. Hari Bol
Prabhu, Please include this Site in your List of Links.
peace out

[PADA: Hey, peace yourself and thanks for your great service!]
==================

PADA EDITORIAL

Dear Mahavegavati dd (from pada),

Thanks very much for your heartfelt letter telling us that Narayana
Maharaja is the object of another GBC poison plot, and your other humble
passages. This poison plot is a very important news item and we hope it can
be exposed more, for example, if we could get the name of the GBC guru
behind this new poison plot that would be vey useful. As you know, we are
investigating the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada and your news is highly
corraborative evidence. Apart from that. we'd like to warn innocent people
to steer clear of the poison party involved.

And we also thank you for you encouraging news that Narayana Maharaja now
endorses the Prabhupadanuga style analysis of Srila Prabhupada's poisoning.
This of course totally nullifies the so-called ritvik obfuscation counter
argument, since it is impossible that Srila Prabhupada would have appointed
his own poisoners as Krishna's successors. No. He must have made them
representatives, i.e. ritviks, and they must have wanted more, i.e. guru,
and that is why they attacked him with poison.

Therefore the Gaudiya Matha view up till now, that Srila Prabhupada
appointed his own poisoners as his successors, will totally crumble into
dust, or it is already doing that now. Moreover, people will marvel in the
future, "Their guru was killed and everyone was arguing if the poisoners
were either priests or gurus"? Amazing. It will be considered as the most
absurd era of Vaishnavism in history. The guru is being killed, and the
argument is, what is the title of the killers? We are amazed ourselves that
this has been going on, but that is the power of the deluding energy. I
prostrate myself at the feet of the deluding energy and recognize the vast
powers of delusion, and beg for some mercy not to fall for such delusions
ever. Yikes!

Are guru poisoners gurus? No. Are they ritviks? No. Are they criminals of
the worst order? Well, yes. So this whole "ritvik issue" has been a major
side show which the GBC loves, since it diverts from the real issue, that
they are crooks. Every time they see the word ritvik being argued, they are
in ecstacy because it means their cheating will go on. So when we get to
the real point, that they are crooks, if not molester pooja advocates, if
not poisoners, then they start to worry. So "the poison issue" is bringing
"the ritvik issue" to a final closing chapter, since what really happened
is now very evident:

1) Srila Prabhupada said for 10 years, say 1967-1977, that he was only
going to make some GBC or managers for after his departure, and to avoid
going to the Gaudiya Matha since they tend to telescope relativised GBC
with absolute acharya.

2) Srila Prabhupada saw that some of his leaders wanted even more bigger
titles and worship than mere GBC, so he added the big, big title of ritvik
to some GBC as a means of pacifying them. They clearly wanted to be more
than mere GBC. Actually, they wanted to be gurus themselves.

3) Some GBC, seeing that they were still only going to continue as
essentially limited GBCs, even with the mercifully added bonus from Srila
Prabhupada of the big title of ritvik, got angry and decided to kill their
guru with poison. After doing that, they went to the Gaudiya Matha and
started their zonal guru, guru appointment, guru voting, ritvik
connundrums, as a means of lulling people to sleep about their real crimes,
including poisoning, and it has worked, at least temporarily.

Therefore history will record that for a short time, many ISKCON devotees
some of the Gaudiya Matha were fooled that these so-called ritviks were
supposed to be gurus, but that what really happened is that some GBC were
not happy with their GBC and ritvik titles, they wanted more, and they went
to extreme steps to get a vastly bigger title. That Narayana Maharaja now
agrees that these GBC poisoned Srila Prabhupada means he is getting closer
to filling in the rest of the puzzle, i.e. they were only appointed as
ritviks and not as gurus as he had endorsed previously. In sum, the poison
issue is the root issue and it solves all the peripheral issues such as
ritvik.

Regarding you constant repeating for us to go and meet with Narayana
Maharaja, this is what we had wanted, but it has to take place here (San
Fran area) if it will happen, since we are not high budget jet set GBC. Yet
it seems our views are getting closer of late, so it will all work out in
the end. YS pd

==================

1) POISON THREAT TO NARAYANA MAHARAJA

Dear Puranjana prabhu,

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Please accept my fallen
obeisances. I hope you are well and are going on enthusiastically in your
endeavors in Krsna consciousness. WOW, that was a lot for you to answer to
me, (and I have to be honest, due to my reading comprehension disabilities,
it is a lot for me to dicipher and digest.) Thus, I am going to TRY to
reply to at least some of your points: Again, I think we run into the
problem of some of Srila Narayan Maharaja's disciples misrepresenting him.

[PADA: Well, then you decipher things for us.]

MD: The best way to understand WHAT he believes, is to question him
directly and discuss it with him, to get the whats, whys, ect.

[PADA: We tried that. We have also wrote letters and papers, one devotee
estimates we wrote maybe more than 20,000 pages of material since 1980. So
we have put time into this, and we can only do so much. I am also now
living near San Fransisco not LA. So if you can arrange a meeting I'll
oblige, it is up to yourselves.]

MD: ...One thing Narayan Maharaj said about (GBC) perpetrators in general -
and this also applies to the situation with Srila Prabhupada's being
poisoned - was that if one
tries to punish the perpetrators, the punishment that one gives may reduce
the punishment that Krsna Himself will give. (Of course there is also the
factor that
Krsna is using all of us as instuments in some way, so Krsna may also be
using devotees as instruments to bring out the truth of what actually
happened with
relation to Srila Prabhupada's being poisoned.)

[PADA: OK, agreed, many GBC "gurus" are really criminal perpetrators, and
as such they will be punished by Krishna or His agents. Agreed. So why have
we been saying that these criminals are more than ritviks --that they are
acharyas? We would conversely argue that they are --not even-- ritviks?]

MD: ...Even I was PERSONALLY aware of AT LEAST ONE plot by at least some of
our GBC God brothers who were going to POISON Srila Narayan Maharaj,
because one of the
Indian devotees, (a disciple of one of our so-called "Godbrothers"), ended
up telling another devotee about it - he was to do the poisoning - and the
other devotee told me.

[PADA: Well, if you know that someone, and he's a GBC guru clone-head as we
all would suspect and you confirm, and he is going to poison NM, then why
is this not brought to the attention of the police and the FBI? This is
called "conspiracy to commit murder." And if such plots to kill Narayana
Maharaja are underfoot, and we do not doubt you that there are such plots,
that means they will poison others, or shoot or kill anyone they so desire.
So we should pursue this because they will kill anyone?

If they will kill their guru, kill NM, kill us, kill their grand-mother,
then they are dangerous criminals, and we should notify the devotees (as a
warning) and the police, to save other innocent souls from being
victimized. A woman was raped once and she tried to place criminal charges
on the other women whom this man had raped, saying that because they let
this man loose and did not press charges: that caused her rape?
Good argument? I think that the ex-gurukula students similarly have a good
chance to prove the same thing, our pattern of molestation was not checked
and so it went on to hurt more victims.

Also, we should do that so we can clear the good name of Srila Prabhupada
and the acharyas, since these criminals are posing as acharyas. And we
should show the pattern: Srila Prabhupada says he is being poisoned;
Harikesha says they were trying to poison him; Gaura Govinda's folks say
that they poisoned him; Now we see there is a plot to poison NM; and of
course they have molested, banned, beaten and assassinated other devotees,
and so on.

Why not make a public challenge to this since "silence" implies acquiescing
or simply allows them to sweep up more victims, and it further jeapordizes
the lives of NM, myself and others? There is a major infestation of black
widows, cobras, vipers and rattlers invading your house, and you know it,
but you do not warn others, and they are getting bit? Anyway, this proves
our point that the GBC guru system is more like a pit of vipers and black
widows than gurus.

Thus we find it simply astonishing that so much effort is being placed on
whether or not they are or were or could have been ritviks, who cares? They
are crooks, and should not be recognized as ritviks, gurus or whatever? Why
write four hundred pages of letters, Puru comes to mind, proving that these
GBC guys were meant to be gurus and were not appointed as ritviks? Who
cares? Why not write a ten page letter proving that they are crooks and do
something practical to fix it?]

MD: ...There are several comments that Narayan Maharaj made about Srila
Prabhupada's being poisoned. Although he has not come out with a paper on
it, he HAS said some
things on different occasions in different contexts. When Jayadvaita M came
to give Narayan Maharaj some sweets, Narayan Maharaj REFUSED them saying
something to the effect, "You want to poison me like you poisoned your own
Guru Maharaj?"

[PADA: OK fine, NM is now saying that the GBC gurus (and party) are guru
killers, poisoners, and criminals. So why is he still not clarifying that
they were made only ritviks and not gurus because according to NM there is
no such thing as ritviks? Why not get this out in the open, they WERE made
ritviks, they were NOT happy with that, so they killed their guru. Let us
get the facts straight for the benefit of millions of confused people?
Otherwise, people are very confused, angry and losing faith in the whole
thing. Or worse, they fear the whole thing.

And Jayadvaita is now one of their gurus, thanks to the bogus guru voting
system advised to the GBC by Sridhara Maharaja. The point is, that you NOW
say these GBC are bogus criminals, which is fine, but also you imply that
SM and NM never supported them as gurus. That is not true, the GBC were
supported for many years by SM and NM as gurus. So, this "private and
secret" teaching, that the GBC are bogus, that they are poisoners, etc.,
simply allows more innocent folks to become victims, and does nothing to
clear up the guru tattva issue, that they were only appointed as ritviks
and not as gurus.]

MD: ...In Fiji, when some Indian lady came to give Narayan Maharaj some
prasadam, and said that it came from the ISKCON temple, Narayan Maharaj
REFUSED to honor ANY of
it, making a comment that he would "never take any foodstuffs from and
ISKCON temple, that it might have poison in it." (I WAS NOT PRESENT
PERSONALLY TO HEAR AND SEE THESE EXCHANGES,
BUT THE DEVOTEES WHO WERE RIGHT THERE, TOLD ME.)

[PADA: We were involved in a sort of similar instance, some sincere
devotees were in front of the LA temple and they said very sheepishly,
"Puranjana, here are some cookies, would you take one from us? There is no
poison in them, honest." That is what is has come to now, we have to
suspect poison in "the prasad," and a non-poison disclaimer has to be
made! Of course I joked back, "If your cookies kill me, I'll be dead, but
you will be in jail" and I took the cookies.

Anyway, once again, this proves that supporting the GBC as gurus is a
mistake, just look where it has taken us? Now we cannot eat at Srila
Prabhupada's so-called temples without fear of being killed. So this is why
Srila Prabhupada calls these false gurus "envious snakes," "ferocious
snakes," and so on. As we all know, the result of associating with a
ferocious snake is that you can be poisoned. Not only are snakes vicious,
they are sneaky, hiding in the grass to snipe at the unsuspecting victim.
Srila Prabhupada says these Gaudiya Matha Tirtha's are dangerous sarpas
with jewels on their heads, so you can just imagine our shock to hear NM
say that they are gurus!]

MD: That may have been BEFORE, and who can say his reasoning? Just like
Srila Prabhupada: He put Tamal and so many of them as leaders.

[PADA: A "leader" can be replaced, and must be replaced, according to the
May 28th tape, as soon as he deviates. A guru never deviates? That is the
problem, the Gaudiya Matha mixes up the Governing Body leaders with gurus?
And since "the leaders" wanted to be "the guru," they killed their guru. So
let us straighten this out. Is this too much to ask?]

MD: ...(Can we say EXACTLY WHY he did this? Was it that Srila Prabhupada
did not know their character? Was it that out of SOME FORM of necessity -
and I can think of so many reasons, including as a way to control them so
that they did not try to kill Srila Prabhupada earlier - that Srila
Prabhupada put these people into position of authority over other devotee's
lives. Who am I or you to say? Who are we to understand WHY the pure
devotee does as he does? Only we can ask him, and IF he CHOOSES to tell us
his plan, then can we understand, (if even we can understand after that).

[PADA: Well, the plan is very simple. Make a GBC. And make sure that these
GBC do not pose as gurus, as occured in the Gaudiya Matha. That is what he
said umpteen thousand times. And if they get out of line, replace them.
Enforcing that is also the duty of the congregation, to remove a crooked
priest. Any normal Church will demand the resignation of a priest caught
lying, stealing, molesting, fornicating, what to speak of posing as Jesus
of Nazareth, etc. And as such, since this is the plan, the Gaudiya Matha
should have helped, instead they supported these rascals even when it was
reported that they were falling down --as acharyas!]

MD: ...As far as ritvik goes, you would have to ask Narayan Maharaj
SPECIFICALLY what he means. He himself has acknowledged the conception of
"ritvik", not with relation to these men, but according to the word used in
sastra.

[PADA: And that has been the problem all along. NM has not considered how
this word is used, specifically, by Srila Prabhupada in relation to these
men. It is a very specific instruction, given very clearly by Srila
Prabhupada: "For initiations after my departure, I will appoint some
officiating acharyas." Asked if that means "ritviks," Srila Prabhupada
says, "Yes." So Srila Prabhupada wanted priests to officiate on his behalf.
Instead NM gets bogged down writing all kinds of things about "ritviks" who
are officiating at ceremonies for demigod worship or etc. This is not how
the word was used or applied to the GBC by Srila Prabhupada. NM is taking
it out of the context it was intended by Srila Prabhupada, i.e. to refer to
certain GBC functions.

Thus, what NM cites from the Mahabharata about ritviks has no bearing on
how Srila Prabhupada used the word to apply to the GBC function in his
mission. You cannot take the previous use of the term in certain Vedic
contexts and apply it to the context spoken of by Srila Prabhupada.
Besides, NM does not even examine the quotes that are given by us regarding
how Srila Prabhupada wanted the term used. "Ritvik" is a very broad term,
it has some meanings in the Mahabharata and other meanings elsewhere.

Instead the GBC merely says, "Oh, the words GBC?, not found in shastra. Oh,
GBC acting as ritviks, not found in shastra. Srila Prabhupada's directives
for his mission, not found in shastra." And so this has lead to the natural
(but misleading to others) support for the GBC as gurus. NM also assumes
that since there are no GBC or ritvik systems that he knows of, therefore
the whole idea is wrong. Well, maybe he does not know how Srila Prabhupada
wanted things done? And so he joined instead with the GBC's interpretation
that they were made as gurus, but that is not what was ordered. And the
Gaudiya Matha did not make a GBC either, as they were ordered to do, since
"it's not in shastra"(*?)."

So NM and others should re-examine how Srila Prabhupada wanted the term
used, but we see that he has not even analysed how Srila Prabhupada used
the term in his writing quoted by Puru? Instead NM is talking about how
Valmiki used the term some ages ago, and that has no bearing on how Srila
Prabhupada had created a system where people were chanting on his beads.
Srila Prabhupada never said, "And to understand how this GBC/ ritvik system
works, read the Mahabharata." No, he said he had made a unique system of
GBC and ritviks, it was not something he had copied from the Mahabharata?]

MD: ...This is why I feel that you should just go and speak to him
personally and get his position cleared up. Narayan Maharaj is NOT
supporting the BAD GBC men, and does NOT see them as "saints" but rather he
sees them for what they ARE. (Just to clarify; I feel that many of the GBC
people are creeps, but I do feel that there are some among them who are
good men, but who are maybe afraid to speak up, or who are feeling that
Krsna as the time factor, will in time expose everything. (I can not say
why it is the more honest among them are NOT speaking out boldly. Maybe
they are afraid that they will get bumped off for speaking up.)

[PADA: Well, things do not get cleared up by silence. Chanakhya Pandit thus
says, "maunam samyam raksati": silence protects the evil ones. Anyway,
agreed, the GBC's are all afraid all right, afraid of losing their rice
bowl income.]

MD: I just know that in SB, where Krsna was returning to Dwaraka, when the
residents were coming out to meet him, Srila Prabhupada explains in a
purport that King
Ugrasena and Akrura, (his son in law), "were not on good terms" AND THEY
WERE BOTH DEVOTEES. So WHO can understand the relationships that Srila
Prabhupada had with his Godbrothers.

[PADA: For starters, we do not think that the GBC have any bearing on these
persons mentioned in the SB. Also, we also have to deal with our guru and
his mission. Right now, as you say, some people are afraid to even eat at
an ISKCON center for fear of being poisoned. So, what kind of atmosphere is
this? If going to a temple is like jumping into a pit of black widows and
vipers, as you and NM now indicate that it is, who will want to become a
devotee? How can we preach the mission? Come on down to the viper's pit?

So, we have to change this because that is our duty to our guru and his
mission. We don't really care about other's missions, they can do as they
please, we have our guru and his mission to worry about. But if they have
supported the people who created hell in our mission, then that has to be
addressed.]

PADA had said: So if Srila Prabhupada said that Madhava's crew could hurt
him physcially, why does NM say that this same Madhava is an acharya? The
people who
vehemently opposed Srila Prabhupada, threatened him with violence, are your
idea of acharyas?

MD: From my understanding, when Madhava Maharaj got heavy with Srila
Prabhupada, it was over the name Prabhupada, and Srila Prabhupada's calling
his Godbrothers, "bellringers". (Madhava Maharaj was a 6'2" man who had
opened - I believe - 23 maths and who can understand REALLY, what was going
on between Srila Prabhupada and him?)

[PADA: We don't need to know anything about Madhava's so-called
accomplishments. What is of important to us is that he is a severe offender
at the feet of our guru. He has insulted our guru. He has threatened our
guru. So he is a nonsense fool number one, that's all we need to know.
Anyone who attacks Srila Prabhupada will be attacked by us, even so-called
big shot preachers.

The pharisees were big preachers too, but they spoke ill towards Jesus, so
they are condemned by history. Srila Prabhupada said we have to post a
guard at his door after this Madhava visited, that they could kill him.
Madhava's party was threatening violence to our guru, and later NM said
that this Madhava is his idea of a guru? Why? If we say that threateners,
poisoners, killers and so on, are gurus, then we will have such results
pervading our society. As occurs.]

MD: Sridhar Maharaj was the person who "calmed" Madhava Maharaj down and
settled the external "dispute" between Madhava Maharaj and Srila
Prabhupada. When Madhava Maharaj was told that Srila Prabhupada left the
planet, he was MOST MORTIFIED, and CRIED over
Srila Prabhupada's departure.

[PADA: Well, maybe. Maybe he was crying since Tamal was alleged to have
been made the successor and not him. Worse, Madhava Maharaja never
apologized to us for his ill treatment of our guru.]

MD: ...I do not know why Narayan Maharaj did not speak with you further. I
AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES; I just REALLY can not say why it happened like this.
I myself was supposed to go and speak to him and I was told that the
arrangement had changed. Thus, I can not say what happened in your
particular case. Sometimes one may have to "push" to get what one wants.
Sad, but often, it is true.

[PADA: Well we do not have the time or the inclination to "keep pushing" to
meet someone who is reluctant to meet with us. This is also not proper
etiquette. Anyway, the impression of many of our associates is that he is
avoiding our questions.]

PADA had said: Bhaktitirtha was made a guru under the Gaudiya Matha idea to
vote in more gurus. So why are we supporting the founders of these bogus
ideas?

MD: The various maths that I know of do NOT do this.

[PADA: Do what? Appoint acharyas? Wrong. Most Gaudiya Matha temples do
appoint acharyas?]

MD: The acarya is picked by the predecessor acarya - ie. Vaman Maharaj is
the present acarya of the Gaudiya Vedanta Samhiti, chosen by Prajnana
Kesava Maharaj; Bhakti Vallabh Tirtha Maharaj is the present acarya of
Madhava Maharaja's Maths, chosen by Madhava Maharaj; Govinda Maharaj is the
present acarya of Sridhara Maharaja's Maths, chosen by Sridhara Maharaj,
and I do not know about the other branches. But the acarya in these Maths
is NOT voted in, but rather, chosen by the previous chosen acarya.

[PADA: And Srila Prabhupada said that this "selecting the next acharya"
business is bogus, and specifically, as it is done in the Gaudiya Matha.]

MD: As to what went on in the Gaudiya Math after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada left, there are so many things said. (Even some
ISKCON devotees tried to tell me that our Srila Prabhupada "supported"
Vasudev.

[PADA: There is no evidence that he did?]

MD: So there are SO MANY versions.

[PADA: That is why we ask for evidence.]

MD: So I myself keep away from that. (We certainly have enough CRAP in our
sanga, with so many stories that Srila Prabhupada said this, or Srila
Prabhupada said that. The only thing I DO KNOW that Srila Prabhupada said,
was that we are SUPPOSED to become Krsna conscious. And that means taking
that association which will HELP us along those lines.) Thus, for me - even
if nothing else, because Krsna has FORCED me to become more simple - I can
not "burden" myself with the politics of what happened and did not happen
in the Gaudiya Math. As said above, I don't even know for sure exactly what
happened in our ISKCON, other than the GBC leaders LIED to us about what
Srila Prabhupada wanted. THAT MUCH is OBVIOUS.

[PADA: Madhvacharya says that when a person understands history, then he is
eligible for liberation. Anyway, look at what happens when you do not study
the history of the Gaudiya Matha, it is duplicated in ISKCON. Why? "Those
who fail to heed history are condemned to re-live it." (English saying).

PADA had said: NM has to make a public declaration on this because some of
his own followers are giving us severe insults on this poison issue because
he has not made it clear to them what he thinks.

MD: I can not speak for his followers, but I do know that Narayan Maharaj
does believe that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. As to his "having to make
a public declaration", what you mean by that I am not sure. If you mean
that he should write a paper on it, he may not want to do that. (And as to
why not, you would have to ask him why he would not choose to do so.) But
Narayan Maharaj HAS said it publicly already. Many devotees have heard him
say it. Jayadvaita M - I was told - when he heard Narayan Maharaja's reply,
was COMPLETELY OPEN MOUTHED AND HAD NO WORDS TO SPEAK.
(And for good ole Jayadvaita M, THAT is pretty amazing, that he had NOTHING to say.
Mr. Slice and Dice got cut silent.)

[PADA: Hey, hey, hey. Well, if NM silenced Jayadvaita that is a miracle, no doubt.]

PADA had said: What documents have been made on this topic? Please send
them to us.

MD: I do not have them, but I do KNOW that there are some statements made
which HAVE been recorded in writing.

[PADA: Well then get someone to send us the relevant materials.]

PADA had said: So, fine, just send us the transcript of the talk where he
said the GBC were only made ritviks.

MD: I do not think that he said this, but I can send, (and will send),
Narayan Maharaja's statement concerning ritvik.

[PADA: The statements you sent me include no analysis of the words of our
guru, which is the shastra. You are citing some oblique stuff from the
Mahabharata, which does not apply to a GBC system, or even mention the GBC
system? We are talking about the GBC system as it was intended and designed
by Srila Prabhupada, not ritviks in the Mahabharata? You are avoiding the
real issue and making a straw man argument. We never said that the GBC idea
is found in the Mahabharata? Straw man.]

PADA had said: For example, after Sulochana was murdered in 1986, I was
next on the list to be assassinated. When I was told at that time that
Narayana Maharaja was
laughing, joking, sporting, and supporting these people as gurus, even
after that murder, to be honest I though his supporting them could have got
me killed.

MD: Did Narayan Maharaj KNOW that Sulochana prabhu was murdered and why? I
can HARDLY THINK that he knew and would "support" such a thing as this -
murder, etc.

[PADA: Well, even by 1980, everyone seemed to know that Jayatirtha was out
of it, Ramesvara was trying to resign, Tamal was banned from his guru post
by the GBC, that Hansadutta was in big trouble with the law which was in
the media, that there had been drug selling busts, that Jadurani had been
beaten up, that molesters were creeping into Mayapura and Vrindavan, etc.
In sum, almost everyone was well aware that the GBC gurus were involved in
illicit sex, drugs, drug selling, threats, beatings, and so on, from 1978
onwards. Early on, Sridhara Maharaja just said that these are all not real
problems since gurus become (psychopathic?) madmen like this?]

PADA had said: Indeed, now some of his Gaudiya Matha fans are threatening
to cut our tongue out? Considering that real murders occured in the
post-1930s and post-1970s, I take this as a real threat of murder, because it is.

MD: That is them, but how do you know that they are representing Narayan
Maharaj and HIS attitudes?

[PADA: So he should issue a public disclaimer, "Anyone who says that Srila
Prabhupada only appointed Tamal and co. as ritviks (like pada) is correct;
Anyone who says that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned (like pada) is correct.
So I want that all of my followers and sympathizers stop harrassing people
(like pada) on these issues."]

PADA had said: And if thousands of his devotee are being molested, banned,
beaten and threatened with death;and the reputation of ISKCON is going down
the tubes to
millions and billions of people, yes Srila Prabhupada would have taken an
hour, or even months, or even years, to counteract this type of mess. Of
course, he would have spoken up about the mistreatment of his devotees,
whom he said are like his children. Yes, he would have taken the time.

MD: ...Even when Srila Prabhupada was PRESENT on the planet, so many of his
devotees in charge were doing so much GARBAGE. (I personally was under the
Kirtanananda regime, and I had to suffer personal beatings and other
physical abuse WHILE Srila Prabhupada was present.

[PADA: Yet when Srila Prabhupada found that a situation was very bad, he
would try to change it. That is the point.]

MD: ...Similarly, it is with Narayan Maharaj. Even his sanga is set up VERY
differently from Srila Prabhupada's. And because of this, so much of these
kind of things are avoided. Ie- Narayan Maharaja has only two temples in
which mainly only a few Indian brahmacaris and VERY FEW Western men stay.)

...If so many devotees tell me that Puranjana is ......, I am NOT going to
necessarily accept it. I would rather meet you myself and then find out
your wheres, whys, etc. And I may come to know you in a VERY different way
than what other people try to tell me you are. So you please be well, and
may Srila Prabhupada ALWAYS keep you under his loving protection. I will
send this out to you and will then send you that Narayan Maharaj ritvik
thing that was posted on VNN.
I remain your servant,
Mahavegavati Dasi

[PADA: OK, we shall see. Here is my analysis of the ritvik paper:]

=============================================

2) May 6, 1999
The True Conception Of Sri Guru Tattva

BY PURU DAS ADHIKARI

The Bhaktivedanta Memorial joyfully announces the distribution of the newly
printed magazine, "The True Conception of Sri Guru Tattva", The relation
between Guru and Disciple. This compilation of six essays with two Appendix
presents essays and discourses establishing the Gaudiya Vaisnava Siddhanta,
by Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Naryana Goswami Maharaj.

Rtvik and Sri Guru Tattva

Introduction

After the physical departure of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada, and uttama-bhagavata acarya, there have been many questions
about his disciples acting as gurus, some of whom have fallen down.

[PADA: These are the first two bogus items out of the box: (1) that
conditioned neophytes must "wear the uniform of the acharya" and (notice
the word) "act" (i.e. make pretend) that they are gurus. Any honest person
would call this show-bottle "act" making up lies or cheating. Naturally,
one will get caught making a pretend play "act" that one is a self-realized
guru. And so: (2) When your foolish guru "act" is exposed, you make Gaudiya
Matha backed "position papers" claiming that "gurus fall down."

In sum, Sridhara Maharaja says that the neophyte must make a pretend act,
i.e. "wear the uniform of the acharya," and make a pretend show-bottle
"act" that he is an acharya. Notice that Puru uses the same identical term:
"act." To these people, being a guru is a show-bottle "act" or dress up
performance? No. The theatrical actor is not a guru anymore than an actor
portraying the King is really the King. Of course, sometimes a person
thinks because he play acts at being Napolean, therefore he is Napolean. It
is at this point that we get out the straight jacket and tranquilzer gun.

Moreover, a real guru does not make a foolish "play act" that he is a guru,
he really is the guru. For example, Sridhara Maharaja told three GBC gurus
to go back and sit in the guru seat after they told him they could not
follow the real guru's standards. Falsity. Play acting. Bogus charades. And
both the GBC and the Gaudiya Matha folks even admit it, it is all for a big
show bottle performance. A theatrical play. Acting.

Children might say, "What are we going to do to day Billy for some fun"?
"Well, I'd like to play that I am Jesus and you can play that you are my
worshipper." Act --as guru? Funny thing is that even children never "play
act" at this because the know it is either very offensive to play act as
Jesus, or it is very cruel to have to act as the blind "follower."

Sridhara Maharaja, who is endorsed by Narayana Maharaja by the way, also
says that such "acting as" acharyas may later become "mad-men," ok
dangerous psychopaths. Maybe they will kill people. And they have. And as
such, the person they admit is a psychopathic acting guru, whom they
endorsed anyway, will also want money, women and followers as SM says in
his book "Sri Guru And His Grace." This is completely the opposite of the
teachings of Srila Prabhupada. A Vaishnava Acharya is not EVER a psychotic,
greedy, lusty, mad-man, if not a homosexual pedophile. No. He is never like
that. And to say that he is, or to say that the acharyas become like that,
is unauthorized.

So their first two proposals are on the table from the start: (1) You make
pretend and play "act" that you are a guru, even when you are not, and (2)
when your bogus play acting is exposed, you come up with bogus theories
that gurus fall down and become mad fools. Suppose a janitor performs bogus
brain surgery and he kills 37 patients. He is charged with 37 counts of
first degree murder. He then argues in court that since he was acting as a
brain surgeon, therefore actual brain surgeons make such mistakes and fall
down. No, he is a criminal and he has no authority to "act" as a brain
surgeon. He is a criminal. And some of the Gaudiya Matha folks certified
our GBC's criminals as gurus, so they are implicated.]

PURU: Thus there is an overall concern about gurus amongst his followers
and how to properly continue the line.

[PADA: And both Sridhara Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja have endorsed that
the GBC play actors are gurus, and this is how the line of gurus continues.
No. A yellow-green plastic Batman ring that comes in your box of Cheerios
does not continue the line of the gold and diamond rings at the San
Francisco jewelry center.]

PURU: The ‘guru-tattva’ and ‘rtvik’ discussions now challenge the assembled
devotees to understand Srila Prabhupada’s desires regarding Vaisnava
initiation.

[PADA: Another bogus idea, the "re-initiation" scam. No. They say that
gurus who have given initation have then fallen down, hence Sridhara
Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja both endorsed the GBC's "re-initiation"
program. Wrong. A bogus person cannot give vaishnava diksha, he never was a
diksha guru.]

PURU: There are several sincere, yet conflicting viewpoints interpreting
Srila Prabhupada’s intentions. The ‘rtvik proposal’ suggests that Srila
Prabhupada desired that a system be set up for devotees (as rtviks) to
initiate on his behalf even after his departure, and those new initiates
would continue to be his disciples alone.

[PADA: And some of the Gaudiya Matha members made a homosexual into a guru
in the 1930s. And later they went ahead and endorsed the homosexual guru
lineage of the GBC in the post 1970s, saying that you need to worship
homosexuals to go back to Godhead. And both Sridhara Maharaja and Narayana
Maharaja endorsed this bogus GBC lineage.]

PURU: At Sri Kesavaji Gaudiya Matha, Mathura, curious devotees asked Sri
Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj questions on this topic. Srila
Narayana Maharaj is always happy to clarify siddhanta and to glorify Srila
Prabhupada.

[PADA: Well then why has SM and NM supported that Srila Prabhupad wanted
the uqualified to "act" as gurus by wearing the guru's uniform?]

PURU: To help us grasp Srila Prabhupada’s intentions for the continuation
of the Krsna consciousness movement, Srila Narayan Maharaj presents here
pertinent references from the Vedic scriptures (Gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam,
Caitnya-caritamrta, Upanisads, Ramayana), clearly conveying the true
meaning of ‘rtvik’, and how it is viewed in relation to the eternal system
of guru-parampara.

[PADA: In 1990, Narayana Maharaja said that there is not such word as
ritvik in the Vaishnava dictionary. Now we suddenly find it all over the
Vedas?]

PURU: For the many devotees whoare trying to serve Srila Prabhupada
Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s sankirtan
movement, we hope the
following explanations will offer criticially important insight into these
often misunderstood topics. The meaning of the word ‘rtvik’

Q: According to scripture, what is the meaning of rtvik?

A: ...‘Rtau yajtiti rtvik.’ One who conducts sacrifices according to Vedic
mantras is called a rtvik.

[PADA: OK, so the ritvik is not an acharya. So why has Sridhara Maharaja
and Narayana Maharaja said that the persons named as ritviks --are
acharyas? And that to keep them in the proper designation as intended: i.e.
ritviks --would be a deviation from shastra? Therefore, we must make
persons with known anarthas "act" as gurus?]

PURU: Rtviks mentioned in Vedic History: In: Valmiki’s Ramayana, similar
descriptions about rtvik are found: We find another example of sixteen
rtviks described in the Ramayana in the description of asvamedha-yajna.

[PADA: OK, so now we are suddenly finding that some forms of ritviks are in
the Vaishnava dictionary.]

Q: What is the relationship of rtvik with guru-tattva as described in scriptures?

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada made ritviks to chant on his beads in the early
1970s. Since he is an acharya, what he establishes is "scripture." Yet we
do not find you even mentioning what Srila Prabhupada wanted? Nor does Puru
quote his letters or statements about how he wanted a GBC and ritvik
system? Instead you still say, "GBC is not found in shastra, it is bogus."
Well, that is what Ananta Vasudeva said in 1936.]

PURU: In Srimad bhagavatam and Mahabharata also there are very few contexts
which are related to rtviks. In Srimad-Bhagavatam wherever the word "rtvik"
has been mentioned, it is used only in connection with the performance of yajnas,
and nowhere can it be found being used in relation to paramartha or supreme
transcendental goals.

[PADA: Well, the ritviks in the Bhagavatam brought Lord Vishnu out of the
sacrifical fire. Of course, that is like minor small potatoes for a guy
like Puru who does this daily with no effort, since he is more advanced
than these "bogus ritviks." He says all the time, "ritviks are bogus,"
since he wants to chastise, criticize, demean, and character assassinate
--folks who bring Vishnu forth from the fire? Yep, they are all bogus,
since God Himself is attracted to come to them? Puru says that being
initiated by Srila Prabhupada under the ritvik system that he started in
the early 1970s is not transcendental? Being an initiate of Srila
Prabhupada is mundane? Well, since Puru's gurus wear the uniform and act as
gurus, maybe his neighbor, Henk Joesephy Snerdly Jr. dresses like Krishna
and comes out of Puru's sacrifices?]

PURU: The Supreme Lord advises to endeavor only toward paramartha.

[PADA: So Sridhara Maharaja started the "paramartha" homosexual pooja idea
in the post-1930s. This is the paramartha? And all hell ensued as this was
adopted in post-1977, including mass molestations of children, murders, bad
publicity and so on and so forth. That is because they created a false
standard of worship whereas the ritvik idea keeps the worship of the pure
devotee intact. Worse, you become what you worship, so by forcing children
to worship homosexuals, some of them became homosexuals. This homosexual
pedophile worship program of the GBC, endorsed by some from the Gaudiya
Matha, has no Vedic or even common moral standing.]

PURU: Thus it becomes obvious that all such yajnas are performed merely to
fulfill mundane desires and to attain svarga, but they are never performed
in pursuance of paramartha, transcendental bhakti.

[PADA: Oh, it is clear now. Worship of the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada is
mundane, but worship of the Gaudiya Matha backed homosexual and pedophile
lineage is pure transcendence?]

PURU: Bhagavan Sri Krsna, while giving instructions to Arjuna in
Gitopanisad, has Himself said: "Those who study the Vedas and drink the
soma juice, seeking the heavenly planets, worship Me indirectly. They take
birth on the planet of Indra, where they enjoy godly delights."

[PADA: Puru now says that worshipping the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada is
some fruitive acitvity, or is like drinking soma juice. Well, his GBC gurus
have been drinking men's *****, amongst other forbidden items. Not
surprising, since Puru was tooting the GBC's horn up to a year ago, saying
we have to worship people like those voted in as gurus at a homosexual
pedophile recoronation, and he argued with us vociferously that you must do
that to go back to Godhead. Nevermind that this has clearly produced
results like mass molestation, murder etc. Now he says, we have to worship
the founders or cheerleaders of these bogus gurus?]

PURU: Thus, through the Vedic principles, they achieve only flickering
happiness.

[PADA: Worship of Puru's gurus deviants if not homosexual guru lineages has
produced no happiness at all for anyone, even them. The senior devotees are
insulted if not banned, the children as a class were apparently mass
molested, women are mistreated (or sometimes beaten), cows are tortured and
it seems that the lucky cows escape the torture by being sold for
slaughter. The public has to hold their noses at the stinky publicity. Who
is happy with this? No one.

Even their own GBC "gurus" suffer an odd variety of weird physical
maladies. Many of them are sickly. Some of them can barely eat. Some of
them eat too much and get no exercize, so they are already having severe
heart troubles, including triple by-pass surgery, --at age 50. Some of them
are taking all kinds of pills. Some of them are going to various card
readers, doctors, psychics, astrologers and witch doctors for help (?).
Some are getting ghost busted. Some are taking psychotropic drugs.

Some are drinking alcohol. Some are having sexual therapists. Some are
watching porno movies, using condoms, eating meat, ad infinitum. At least
by worship of the demigods there is some flickering happiness, but with
Puru's guru program everyone is bummed out, includng even the so-called
--gurus? When we tried to get people to get Jayatirtha to slow down in
1980, SM instead put the gas pedal to the floor again, and the result was
that Jayatirtha had his head chopped off. So this is all misery of the
lowest type of Tamasic guna, and has nothing to do with the happiness of
the heavenly planets. And it is an insult to the heavenly planets for Puru
to compare these bogus guru lineage's hellish atrocities to that domain.]

PURU: "The Vedas deal mainly with the subject of the three modes of
material nature. O Arjuna, become transcendental to these three modes. Be
free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be
established in the self."

[PADA: Excellent point. One still has to worship the person who is beyond
the three modes of nature, i.e. Srila Prabhupada. And that is what he
arranged until the GBC and their Gaudiya Matha backers threw a monkey
wrench into the wheels and they said, Oh oh, worship of the pure devotee
Srila Prabhupada? Oh oh, not in shastra! Worship Tamal and take some
Kirtanananda-ized prasad instead!]

PURU: We do not find even in the Sankara sampradaya any depiction of rtvik
tradition what to speak of the four Vaishnava sampradayas.

[PADA: Yep, Srila Saraswati Thakura is also bogus because he made a GBC,
and you and Kundali cannot find the words "GBC" in shastra either. So what
does you find in shastra? You say that Sridhara Maharaja is a bona fide
acharya, because he tells homosexuals to "wear the acharya's uniform and
the uniform will show you what to do"?]

PURU: ‘Rtvik-guru’, a contradiction of terms.

[PADA: No, a ritvik is a type of guru. Indeed Srila Prabhupada said that 5
year old Saraswati is a guru. What is the contradiction here? Your idea,
"homosexual-guru."]

PURU: Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami has neither accepted nor mentioned the
tradition of rtviks as gurus anywhere in his bona fide books. Nor did he
support the tradition of rtviks in his personal letters.

[PADA: Yes, he does. He made a GBC/ ritvik system. You are denying his
authority just like the Ananta Vasudeva party did.]

PURU: Whatever Srila Swami Maharaj arranged, it was definitely not
‘rtvik-guru’, which is a contradiction of terms. To call it this is the
cause of embarrassment for him
among those who know the Vedic sastras.

[PADA: And Puru's idea is homosexual pedophile --and-- guru. This is not
only an embarassment, it is a hazard to children.]

PURU: ‘Rtvik-guru’, an impractical concoction which is against the
scriptural conclusions.

[PADA: A ritvik is a type of siksha guru, and has been since time
immemorial. Why is this bogus? He can give sihiksa as far as his realization?]

PURU: In consideration of this principle, can it be conjectured that a
guru, being ignorant of the diksa mantras and their conceptions, will
appoint a rtvik more qualified than himself, who in turn will give diksa to
others, thus acting as the representative of the guru?

[PADA: no, but an ignorant person could say that he appointed homosexuals
as gurus, as the GBC and Gaudiya Matha concluded.]

PURU: Some people say that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj appointed
rtviks who were to give diksa to his disciples.

[PADA: No, the diksha guru is still Srila Prabhupada.]

PURU: If this statement is accepted as true, then it means they are
accusing Srila Swami Maharaj of being an unqualified guru, and ignorant
yajman who, for the sake of fulfilling his material desires or perfection
in spiritual life, would have
appointed rtviks more qualified than himself.

[PADA: We never said that Srila Prabhupada said that Kirtanananda is more
qualifed than he is? This is a straw man argument.]

PURU: No, it cannot be true, for this is completely impossible. Therefore
on the path toward attaining the supreme absolute reality, Bhagavan, this
concocted rtvik
conception is impractical and against the scriptural conclusions.

[PADA: The GBC and Gaudiya Matha supported homosexuals as gurus, this is
against all scriptures and all common morals.]

Swami Bhakti Vedanta Narayan

==========================

3) POISON ISSUED CONFIRMED BY SCIENCE
Subject: Science confirms the truth of the words of the Acarya
To: editorial@vnn.org

Dear Devotees:

Dandavatas. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada has taught us that science should confirm the existence of
God. Real science (knowledge) is that which culminates in Bhakti, devotion
to the Supreme Lord, Krsna. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught this principle
and lived it so powerfully that he converted the knowledge-bound
Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, Prakasananda Saraswati and all their combined
followers to the process of Krsna Bhakti. Real knowledge, Science, confirms
the existence of God. To take this another step further: Science should
confirm the truth of the Acarya's words, since he always speaks truth that
leads to bhakti, and since we are often unfamiliar with the truths he
speaks at the time he speaks them.

I am reminded of this precept when I study the recently released CD by
Dhaneswara Prabhu, "When a man is poisoned, it is said like that". This
particular CD is a must-have for anyone who wants to know the truth of the
poison issue. The new science of Reverse Speech Analysis has been used to
prove that the words of the Acarya are after all, true.

In spite of daily singing "Guru mukha padma vakya....", many devotees
(myself included) still do not understand the significance of every word
spoken by the Founder-Acarya of spiritual ISKCON. His every word is truth.
When he said "Someone has poisoned me", that was a statement of fact. The
faithful follower accepts those words as truth, even though evidence is
lacking, and confirmation is made difficult by the devious actions of the
perpetrators and by the passage of time.

For devotees who are quite ready to accept the existence of an Ocean of
Milk, or trees that move, or water that flows backwards, why has it been so
difficult to accept the truth of Srila Prabhupada's words, "Someone has
poisoned me"? We find an interesting parallel in the murder of Christ.
Christ pointed out his betrayer. After alerting his disciples to the fact
that one of them would betray him, he is exhorted by them to tell them who
it is. They all ask very sorrowfully, "Is it I? Is it I?". Christ points
out the betrayer by saying, "He that dips (his) hand with me in the dish,
the same shall betray me." Judas also asks, "Is it I?". Jesus' amazing
answer is, "You said it".

Obviously, the other disciples did not hear, or understand this exchange,
or they would have immediately arrrested Judas and beaten him to a fine
pulp. (Devotees doubting the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada might do well to
read this account of the betrayal of Christ in the Gospels.) Obviously, the
betrayal of Christ by one of his senior men was as painful a thing for his
disciples to hear, as it is today for many to imagine Srila Prabhupada's
"loving" senior disciples harming him. However, Biblical history is clear
such a betrayal occurred and led to the murder of Jesus.

In 1977, Srila Prabhupada warned us that chaos would follow his departure.
Did we understand what he meant? He also warned that ISKCON could be
destroyed from within. Did we understand the implications of that? He
stated unequivocally that "Someone has poisoned me". When he said that,
like Jesus Christ, he got the same "sorrowful" question from his disciples:
"Who is it that has given you poison, Srila Prabhupada?". We should study
Srila Prabhupada's nice answer to that question. Do we believe him or are
we too frightened by the implications of this to accept his words as truth?

I am grateful to Dhanesware prabhu for his painstaking analysis of the
statements of those individuals who controlled the means (Srila
Prabhupada's food and water) for poisoning him, those who stood to benefit
and who did benefit from his demise. Utilizing the relatively new science
of Reverse Speech, he has isolated in the speech of the senior men
attending Srila Prabhupada, damning speech reversals that indicate clearly
the who, what, and how of Srila Prabhupada's poisoning. For those who could
not accept Srila Prabhupada's words without scientific proof, that proof is
now available.

Will they accept the proof supplied by Reverse Speech Analysis? I doubt it.
Most will not. Many are waiting for the so-called "Official Investigation".
If and when it is finally released, will it prove to be a whitewash, status
quo-oriented document that will claim "insufficient evidence" to support a
poisoning conclusion and thereby let the culprits off the hook?

What is particulary ominous about Dhaneswara's CD, is his reverse speech
analysis of his telephone conversation with one of the main poisoning
suspects. In it, belying the affable words and tone of the suspect, deadly
threats can be heard. I have never doubted the truth of Srila Prabhupada's
words, and I have said that there may never be sufficient evidence to
convict the perpetrators and that we must act merely on our faith in the
truth of the Acarya's words. Now, however, for us of little faith, Science
is confirming the truth of his words and removing our excuses for
disbelieving. Hare Krsna!

Halayudha dasa

===========================

please also see:

When A Man Is Poisoned It Is Said Like That
http://Dhanesvara.tripod.com/

REVERSE SPEECH ANALYSIS REVEALS
TAMAL KRISHNA AND BHAKTI CHARU TO POISON SRILA PRABHUPADA

http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/reverse.htm


SITES TO CHECK OUT:

* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage)
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters:
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933

* POISON TRANSCRIPT
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna) NEW:
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (The GBC)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* Srila Prabhupada's Lecture Library (RealPlayer G2 free download)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html
* http://www.irg.zetnet.co.uk/  (IRG)
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm) (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.vlbg.at/privat/gaura-nitai/index.htm Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch
* http://www.vnn.org/ (VNN news)
* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)

Line

Pada's email:  angel108b@yahoo.com
 

Line

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!