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* PADA EDITORIAL
1) POISON: RECAP OF A FEW POINTS--
2) TRANSLATION OF HINDI UPDATE
Dear folks,
PAMHO. AGTSP.
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PADA EDITORIAL
PADA has received a renewed look at some of the Hindi text in the November
8th "poison tape" from persons who speak Hindi and Bengali (see below)
and
who are natives of India (but who will be kept anonymous). For example,
Srila Prabhupada says: "vahi bat ...je koi hamko poison kiya!" And
they
translated this as: 'The same old story ..."Someone" has poisoned
me'! This
is consistent with what many other Hindi native speakers have said about
this statement. As such, some of our Hindi and Bengali speaking associates
are a little upset at the summary of the Hindi in Balavanta's letter to Bir
Krishna, feeling that he did not do justice to these types of statements.
Our view is that Balavanta is not a forceful, heavy hitter type of person,
at least in regards to the GBC. We are simply very pleased that he has come
forward with what he has so far, namely he has raised serious doubts about
the GBC's position. We think that Balavanta should start to work more
closely with Jack Mitchell on the whisper sound element, and study more
closely the November 8th tape's English and Hindi, and that seems to be
happening. OK, it has taken him three years, but better late than never.
We can take a look on VNN (within Naveen's taped conversation) for the full
conversation that the GBC's spokesman, Deva Gaura Hari, had with Jack
Mitchell. Deva Gaura Hari argues first of all that he does not find that
the word "poison" is there, at all. Rather he says that the word is
really
"boys." Then he says the word is "swelling." Yet later he
says that the
word is really "weasels." The boys are going down? The weasels are
going
down? And this CHAKRA-phile is the type of guy that the GBC and even Adri
forwarded as their CHAKRA evidence expert? Taken as a whole, yes, the GBC
weasels are going down.
We want to make it clear that our view is that Srila Prabhupada's poisoning
will eventually be understood as being in the same category as the
assassination of Jesus. Srila Prabhupada says that the crucifixion of Jesus
is a direct "act of the Lord." (SPL 68-4-8) So, it is not that Srila
Prabhupada is not protected by Krishna, just that Krishna sometimes allows
His devotees to appear to have material difficulties. Ultimately, this
makes the devotee even more glorified later on, for his supreme sacrifice
to the Lord.
Even in ordinary society, if a man gives up his life serving the King, he
gets the medal of valor, bravery and sacrifice from the King. So if someone
gives up his life serving Krishna, this is very wonderful and glorious for
that devotee. Of course, this is not so wonderful for the folks who tried
to take his life just to steal his seat of honor. Even when a young man
steals the seat of an elderly person on the Metro bus, he is condemned and
hated, what to speak of giving poison in order to take the elderly person's
seat.....
So, "vahi bat": it is the same old story, "je koi hamko poison
kiya." They
want to kill me and take over my seat, my mission. They are envious of me.
And Srila Prabhupada says that, just like Jesus was killed, so they may try
to kill me also. Same old story. Gaudiya Matha's "kill guru and become
guru," and then ISKCON's Gaudiya Matha part 2, "kill guru and become
guru."
"Vahi bat." And are we surprised that some of the GBC went to the
Gaudiya
Matha to get a rubber stamp of "guru" from them?
Tamal came up to me in 1976 in front of Srila Prabhupada's vyasasana in LA,
frothing at the mouth, face contorted in anger, "I know you Puranjana,
you
are simply waiting for Srila Prabhupada to die so you can sit in his seat."
Yep, and one year later, who was sitting in his seat? And this is the
Gaudiya Matha's gopi classes student and their idea of an acharya? And this
happened just after Vishnujana had disappeared, and Tamal wanted to send
the women to live in the Australian outback, and Srila Prabhupada wanted to
send Tamal to China. An "acharya" who seems to offend women, create
molester gurus, create cow death camps, and have some dead bodies in his wake?
Many of our friends within the GBC, Gaudiya Matha and other parties have
therefore argued with us, sometimes vociferously, that we cannot say that
the pure devotee was given poison. Well, what if the pure devotee himself
says he is being given poison? What kind of fool are you to argue with the
pure devotee, that is the first point? He says he is being given poison,
then you say, he is a liar? Who are you then? And you also say, his bogus
liar successors are diksha gurus? Krishna's successors? Molesters? Crooks?
Poisoners? Liars? And: Krishna's successors? You discredit the pure, and
boost up the liar class --as pure? What is your position then?
No poison can kill the pure devotee, that we all agree upon. Srila
Prabhupada therefore says that the cause of the untimely departure of Srila
Saraswati Thakura in the 1930s was that he was DISGUSTED! His leaders were
sitting around like vultures waiting for him to pass away so they could sit
in his seat. So he said, "Fine I'll go and you take the bricks and stones."
And that is what occured to our Srila Prabhupada in 1977. "Vahi bat."
Same
old --"new."
Thus, Srila Prabhupada says that the Gaudiya Matha cheater guru sabha only
got the Maya Sita, not the real Sita. They tried to steal from Rama, but
they were cheated, they got nothing, and in the end they perished and were
cursed as odious demons "henceforward" for all time. All glories to
Srila
Prabhupada, acharya of the Jagat, who gave his very life and offered it all
to Krishna in order to save the fallen conditioned souls. ys pada
=====================
1) POISON: RECAP OF A FEW POINTS-- (compiled by Vaisnava dasa)
TKG: Srila Prabhupada, Sastriji says that there must be some truth to it if
you say that. So WHO IS IT THAT HAS POISONED?
"I note that ...the arsenic concentrations found in the hair of Mr. Srila
Prabhupada was twenty times higher than what would be considered normal for
unexposed individuals living in the United States. You have discussed with
me his living status and he was not exposed to endemic arsenic
concentrations noted in some areas of India significantly prior to his death....
"It is my opinion, to a reasonable degree of medical certainty, that this
individual [Srila Prabhupada],...would be an individual in frail health in
which a chronic administration or exposure to arsenic leading to toxic
levels would be expected to be a significant contributing condition to his
death." --Richard T. Callery, MD, FCAP, from Balavanta's report, exhibit
"An eye witness stated that Bhavananda prabhu, was pouring a clear liquid
on the transferred Maha plates that came off of the altar in the Krsna
Balaram temple and were to be given to Srila Prabhupada's. When approached
by this question, by the witness, Bhavananda stated that it was "Holy
Water". But when asked why do you need to sprinkle holy water on the Maha
Prasad coming off the altar from Lord Krsna? No answer was given. This
happend quite frequently. Why? Perhaps someone could reask Bhavananda in
Australia, if you think he might really tell you." -- Mahabuddhi dasa
=================================
2) TRANSLATION OF HINDI UPDATE
Dear Pada pamho agtSP
Please forgive me for this outburst. At this point I am fairly distraught
at the blase approach taken by Balavanta. As always, you may post or throw
this article in the waste.Use your own discretion. I am still your friend.
O yes! before I forget. Thanks for publishing my previous articles.
What a load of hogwash! After three years of investigations, all we get is
one page of absolute drivel (the attached forensic work is old-hat)
Balavanta's report was commissioned by the gbc, for the gbc and delivered
by a gbc adherent. Three years have crawled passed. Many stalwarts for the
cause have mellowed with waiting, or gone quiet. A typical ploy, using time
to phase out the opposition and then conclude with being inconclusive.
The first part of Balavanta's report, if viewed in "reverse writing"
would
read:- My dear gbc, i have left the mark of my lips on your butt forever."
The part about the lack of funding is a red-herring and the end is
regimented iskcon party-line-politics with a veneer of spirituality.
Where are the hard-hitting interviews with the suspects? Why was it not
done? Why was Bhakti caru crying when HDG said that he was being poisoned?
If there was no poison in the food, water or medication, where did it come
from? How was it administered and by whom? Where is the detailed Mitchell
forensic report? Why did Balavanta not meet with this man? Hear the report,
find out who was threatening him (the exact words used, phrasing, accent).
Why was he being threatened. Is this information not relevant? Why did
Balavanta not post periodical reports on the internet? Was he controlled by
the gbc? Did he report to the gbc on a regular basis?
Why does Balavanta point out that "Srila Prabhupada's life was under the
control of the Divine energy and thus not subject to material
considerations especially in regards to His presence OR DEPARTURE." Sounds
to me like a divine license for murder. He adds later (addressing his gbc
commissioners), "Nevertheless, you and others felt that an
investigation......would be prudent." The word prudent defined, means;
'
Cautious,' ' Discreet' and 'Sensible' Is he giving the whole show away or
just plain kissing butt?
And what about..."In other words WE have not yet reached AND MAY NEVER
REACH a level of certainty as to the content of the whispers." Speak for
yourself pal. There are people out here who will never throw the tapes
away. Will take it to mainstream investigators. Will die trying to uncover
the truth. Will leave behind them a legacy of prying and prodding
Prabhupadanugas, until the history books record the truth.
Balavanta writes: "On November 8, 1977 Srila Prabhupada commented that
"Someone has said that I have been given poison." Who said?' "They
all say;
they all say.' He was pressed later and responded, "Not said, but that
I
have the symptoms of one who has been poisoned."
No more can we tolerate this making Srila Prabhupada look like an
airy-fairy-spacecase. Balavanta is twisting an already loosely translated
conversation to convince us that nothing untoward took place. So here is
the word for word translation by a jiva who spent twenty-three years as a
Calcutta street-kid and a further sixteen as an iskcon street-kid.
SP: "Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai." keu-(somebody)
bole-(says) je-(that) keu-(somebody) poison-(poison) kore-(done)
diyeche-(given). Hoy to tai- (it could be)
Translation:- "Somebody says that somebody has given poison. It could
be."
Note: Srila Prabhupada uses the past continuos tense ' kore diyche.'
koreiche-being past. korche-being present and korbe-being future.
Again SP says (in Hindi): " Koi bolta hai je koi mujhko poison kiya gaya
hai."
Koi-(somebody) bolta hai-(is saying) je-(that) koi-(somebody) mujhko-(to
me) poison-(poison) kiya gaya hi-(has been giving)
Translation:- "Somebody is saying that somebody has been giving me poison."
Note: Even when speaking in Hindi, SP uses the past continuos tense 'kiya
gaya hi.'
kiya-being past. Karta-being present and kariga-being future. Is HDG
telling us something?
Kaviraja (in Hindi): "Kaun bolta hai?'
kaun-(who) bolta hai (is saying)
Translation:- "Who is saying?"
SP: "Ye sab friends." ye-(these) sab-(all) friends-(friends)
Translation:- "All these friends."
(Bhakticharu is not satisfied with SP's generalizing. He wants to know
exactly who)
Bhakticharu (in bengali): "Ke boleche, Srila Prabhupada?"
ke-(who) boleche-(has said)
Translation:- "Who has said, Srila Prabhupada?"
SP: (in Bengali) "Ke boleche." ke-( someone). (Note: this time the
word
"ke" in context is not "who" but "someone") boleche-(has
said)
Translation:- "Someone has said."
Note: the published versions of "They all say" and "Everybody's
saying it."
Is wrong!! Prabhupada never wavers from the fact that "Someone" has
said
it. He only answers evasively (does not change His story) when TKG
confronts Him. Later the kaviraja questions Srila Prabhupada:- "O Maharaji,
how was it You said today... that somebody has given You poison. Are you
having hallucinations (abhas) about this?"
SP: (Hindi) " Nahin, aise koi bola je...debe-sa hi ja hota hai. Shayad
koi
kitab men likha hai.' nahin-(no), aise-(like) koi-(somebody) bola-( has
said) je-(that)...debe-sa hi (poisoned) ja-(that) hota-(happens)
shayad-(maybe) koi-(some) kitab-(book) men-(in) likha-(written) hai-(is)
Translation:- "No, somebody has said that ...poisoning happens like this
...maybe it is written in some book." Note: The published versions-(1)
"
No, not said, but when one is given poison, it happens like this. Its
written in book." ...and... (2) "No, some people say like this, that..is
like that when it is given. Perhaps it is written in some (...) book."
Is
incorrect! The first version does not contain the translation for "koi'
(somebody). And the second version translates "koi" as "some
people", which
if correct would be "kuch lok kaithe hi" (some people say).
Summary: Srila Prabhupada always maintained, "Somebody" told Him
that
"Someone" was poisoning Him.
Balavanta as an investigator, carrying on his back, the expectations of so
many, should have cleaned out his own misconceptions before the
undertaking. To start with, he should have had the (audible) tapes
correctly translated. Then he would have realized that Srila Prabhupada was
truly informed as always. Never once (except when fending off the kaviraja
(an outsider) and protecting His source from TKG) did He claim anything
other than Someone/Somebody had told Him and Someone/Somebody had poisoned
Him. The "crux of the quest" (for the investigator) would be the unearthing
of these two; the 'Someone" and the "Somebody". Everything else
is a
whitewash.
Remember, in the end.....
Srila Prabhupada: "VAHI BAT...JE KOI HAMKO POISON KIYA !!!!!"
' THE SAME OLD STORY...."SOMEONE" HAS POISONED ME !!!!!
Dandavats
===========================
SITES TO CHECK OUT:
*
http://www.prabhupada.cc
Prabhupada samkirtana site
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
*
http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P.
REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage)
* http://www.vedabase.com/ (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)
* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters:
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933
* POISON TRANSCRIPT
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
* http://www.winink.com/tkg/ (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc (The GBC)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com (e-mail)
* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html
* http://www.irg.zetnet.co.uk/ (IRG)
* http://www.come.to/irm (IRM)
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/ (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm) (Cyber
gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch
* http://www.vnn.org/ (VNN news)
* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S
TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy
In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)