* CORRECTION ON MADHUSUDANI DD
1) MAYAPURA CROCODILE TEARS (GBC says "peace" while their goondas threaten a woman with violence)
2) GBC INTRODUCES NEW REDNECK LEADERSHIP PROGRAM (real reason behind the wave of resignations)
3) SINGAPORE PROBLEM EXPLAINED --R. Jai Simman (GBC attempt to make Krishna a homeless bum on the street by taking away His servants and finances, while GBC gurus get big houses, servants and cheeze-cakes, a program they have done in many temples, degarding the deity worship to almost nill---)
4) WOE IS ME! PANCHA TATTVA DASA (GBC clone yet actually a fairly good admission of the state of affairs: notice he admits "temple president barons"!)

Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

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* CORRECTION ON MADHUSUDANI DD

The "com" letter we posted from Madhusudani Radha mixed her letter with the
comments on her letter by another "com" person. We are sorry for this
confusion. We are trying to sort out the exact texts and exact writers at
the moment. The main text she says she wants corrected is that she did not
say that the GBC gurus "are conditioned souls like us." Well, whoever made
this comment as was posted on COM is right, and we think this person has
the right perspective, i.e. the GBC's gurus are conditioned souls. We will
try to get these texts sorted out as soon as possible.

====================

1) MAYAPURA CROCODILE TEARS

In Mayapura the GBC are apologizing for their mistreating the devotees.
Simultaneously, we have a report from a devotee, GBC goons just called up
his wife and they said their goons were going to come over to their house
and beat up her husband.
It's the old GBC's "terrorizing the women" trick, which is often the theme
of movies like "Haunted House Horrors," "Bloody Prom Night," and so on. And
the GBC says, hmmmm, now how can we re-create the mood of this movie? I
know, we threaten violence to the women's dear ones? Works every time, have
you not seen any movies fellow GBC-ites?

So, it seems that the GBC are always apologizing, while at the same time,
stabbing us in the back again and again ad infinitum. And terrorizing poor
women, again and again and again. Why not change the abusive policies
FIRST, then tell us what a wonderful re-unification you are proposing?
Hello? "The beatings will continue until you learn to love us."

But wait a second? Didn't the GBC all start crying like babies and offer
the gurukulis $100,000 a few years ago? Then it turns out, ooops they lied,
there was no funds? Then, shortly thereafter, they all started crying like
babies again, and this time said we will give the gurukulis a $1,000,000
payment. But ooops, they lied again? Ummm hmmm! So is this crying and
apologizing all an act? It seems so. In fact, even Kamsa was crying and
washing Devaki's feet with his tears, but, oh oh, then he went back to
normal after a few minutes and started thinking, "hmmmm, now how can I kill
her newborns"? One woman in the USA pushed her car into a pond carrying her
two baby boys to their death, in short she murdered them, but it took
police several months to pin it on her -- since she was expert at crying
and making bogus apologies! Even the public was fooled by her crying on TV....

GBC: Yes officer, I was speeding, so can I give you a check for a million
bucks to take the ticket away?
Officer: OK, but how much do you have in your bank account?
GBC: Well, maybe $7.32?

Also notice that the main issue of reform is their finances, not halting
their banning and threats of violence program. "We are going straight up
like Srila Bhaktisiddanta says we should be! No private bank accounts. This
means you mister GBC! Hmmmm, but I will keep just a few minor essentials
such as: the Swiss bank account, the private bank vault box, the mutual
funds, the IBM stocks, the T-bills, and Virabahu's daily Wall Street
Journal subscription. And, well then there is the Audi, the Beverly Hills
home, the golf clubs, the Rolex watch, the box of condoms, the x-rated
video collection, you know, minor personal stuff. Now the rest of you GBC
shape up like me you bunch of greedy louts! Yowse is giving us a bad name!
And no more stuffing yer faces with cheeze cake and whipped cream, well at
least not in public. Besides, all those pizzas and cheezecakes are giving
you guys heart attacks, and those hospital bills are just killing us! And
we are going to give our larger-size GBC's some of Mrs. Greenfield's diet
portions. But are we going to give up banning, beating and threatening to
kill the Lord's Vaishnavas? No way! That is WAY too much fun"!

And here is a new trend, the GBC are "resigning" left right and center, but
keeping their men, money and --main control of the zone. "Who is in charge
here? Well, no one really, just this guy who has a key to the safe." Ummm
hmmmm! "Yer honor, Joey the knife has resigned as the treasurer of our
trust fund, no kidding yer honor, but he just keeps the keys to the safe."
Oh you know he can be trusted now! This sounds like another case for "LA
Law" TV show!

Of course, Kirtanananda also "resigned from the GBC," but kept his role as
guru and thus, his men, his money, his buildings, and oddly, he still has a
lot of them? Other GBC saw, oh goody, here is the winner idea, resign and
meanwhile siphon off your own movement from ISKCON, a la Kirtanananda, our
real guru! Great! And when the sh-t hits the fan, hey we are outta here!
Actually, we are ALREADY outta here, we just have to "stay" unofficially to
fend off those who might come in and interfere with the ongoing siphoning
program! By the way, the GBC never took civil action to recover any of
these blatant thefts....

I'm not responsible, I resigned, I just keep taking a salary from the
company, but no longer really work for the company? And moreover, I have an
important job to do, to ban, beat and threaten anyone who comes into the
Church. I quit managing the Church personally, but if someone else walks in
to the Church, bam, we get our boys with aluminum baseball bats to fix that
problem..... ummmm hmmmmm!

And where exactly does Srila Prabhupada say that the GBC shall all resign,
but then keep control of the zone's men, money and assets? And after he
resigns he should keep getting his maintenance, apartment, hotel payment,
doctor bill(s) payment, salary, servants, car, travel expenses, condom
expenses, etc.? Does this sound like a SCAM ladies and gentlemen of the
jury? And meanwhile, there is diddly squat for the cows, no food for them,
they have to be sold for slaughter? And the GBC is still ordering devotees
to stop serving the deity and to make Krishna a homeless person?

=========================

2) GBC INTRODUCES NEW REDNECK LEADERSHIP PROGRAM

Dear Pada pamho agtSP
Thank you kindly for your constant flow of news and views. We must confess
to being in absolute awe at your commitment to Srila Prabhupada. How do you
do it prabhu? The kala, tejas and Laxmi involved must be astronomical. Free
from labha, puja or pratista, you have maintained your views uncompromised.
Unlike iskcon's propaganda machine (chakra) or vnn (who will sleep with
anyone), your articles are focussed, hard-hitting, dedicated to a cause,
spicy, revealing and courageous. The loyalty you exhibit is rare indeed,
and I for one, would ride into battle with you anywhere, anytime.

(Watch the birdie) Recently a devotee friend (still being milked by iskcon)
paid me a visit (before the Mayapur festival). He let-slip that the
is-a-con gbc were planning a strategical manoeuvre. The plan is a simple
one, but the consequences are calculated to leave is-a-con's opposition
treading water for quite awhile.

Yes! (if you have not already suspected it) THE GBC ARE ABOUT TO RESIGN. In
their place, wooden dolls (kastira putuli) will be installed. These dolls
taken from the loyal grhasta community, will act as dummy targets while
their string pullers (sutra dharas) drop out of sight and practice ventriloquism.

Adversaries will be compelled to deal with is-a-con rednecks (who as TP's,
were gbc hatchet-men, causing most of the carnage at grass-roots level),
while the faceless (and gutless) gbc, hide away in their havens, milk their
disciples and project an image of bankruptcy, unaccountability and denial.
We strongly suspect that Brahma pada das's posting "Big positive changes in
iskcon" ( vnn 5629) is a prelude to this dodge.

Maybe now, your readers will understand the truth behind the gbc
resignations. And when the white-robed-gbc-clones take over; maybe they
will understand why a magician uses white birds to project his illusions.
Watch the birdie. Namaskar & Dandavats

==========================

3) SINGAPORE PROBLEM EXPLAINED --R. Jai Simman
(The Committee & Congregation Singapore Temple)
Dear Vaishnavas,

Hare Krishna. Please accept our humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila
Prabhupada.
We wish to present our reply to Bhakta Gansham Khialani. In that process,
we would also like to present our case before the assembly of Vaishnavas on
this forum.

We would like to thank Gansham Prabhu for his sufficient honesty in being
indirectly grateful to the temple for his initial advancement in Krishna
Consciousness. We would also like to thank him for the innumerable services
that he has offered for the pleasure of Sri Sri Radha Madan Mohan.

There was thorough relaying of the guru issue within the Singapore Temple.
All congregation members were notified and the history explained to them.
Both the existing philosophical viewpoints (pro-guru status quo and the
ritvik system) were presented and their basic premises elucidated upon. A
meeting was convened to explain all of these matters to the devotees and a
channel was provided for them to express their doubts and uncertainties.
Devotees within the temple were constantly discussing the pertinent issues
related to the present guru system within the movement. The ritvik system
was presented to the congregation during the meetings and although the
temple devotees had become convinced, they never forced anyone to swallow
the system without enquiry and study.

Some devotees, such as Gansham Prabhu and the others, who eventually left
the temple, were also always invited for these meetings. They were given
opportunities to clear their doubts. They were given access to important
information concerning the problems within ISKCON. Their reaction however
was like the owl refusing to see the sun. They preferred the darkness. They
never turned up for these meetings and therefore naturally could not have
an input in the final decision! Any intelligent person knows that when
people are consistently absent from important meetings, that is an
indication of their disinterest in crucial matters. What then is the point
of complaining for a fault on one’s own part ? All opportunities were
provided for but no interest was shown and no attendance was recorded. As
such, the allegation that there was no consultation with the congregation
is untenable. On the contrary, it was Gansham Prabhu who failed to take
advantage of the opportunities, preferring to remain loyal to his own
sentimental opinions of what constituted bona fide spiritual leadership. He
hardly came for any meetings on this matter and always distanced himself!
As such, if Muhammad does not go the mountain with all of its bounties,
what is the use of blaming the mountain for his own lack of appreciation?

Those who attended the meetings favored the ritvik system and unanimously
voted for it. Only then was the ritvik system adopted full on within the
temple. Although the temple president was a ritvik, he has never thrown out
anyone from the temple for not complying with his beliefs. On the contrary,
many of the congregational devotees abandoned their service to the Deities
and walked out of the temple on the orders of their gurus.

As for the allegation of our feeling "envious" of money going for guru
dakshina instead of coming to the temple, please kindly note that we are
paying a hefty $15,000 in rental every month without the aid of these
disgruntled guru-dakshinites. Therefore some paltry guru dakshina is not
making us cry for want of more money.

Whose fault is it when devotees leave the temple and conduct their own
undercurrent programmes ? We have never told these devotees not to come to
the temple and render service! On the contrary, it was they who often put
on long faces and exhibited moroseness as if we were asking them to take
poison. Philosophical differences are immaterial in serving the Archa
Vigraha. But here we were witnessing attitudes that tended to see Sri Sri
Radha Madan Mohan as an extension of the temple devotees with whom they
could not agree philosophically! Is this the attitude to be had in
rendering devotional service? When the Deity was installed, everyone
present promised not to leave but to serve Them and yet almost always,
people leave their service behind for frivolous reasons of politics.

These other programmes in actuality are anti-temple propaganda sessions
meant for mudslinging temple devotees and pro-ritviks and dissuaded many
people from coming back to the temple to render service to the Deities! The
temple has lost so many simple-minded persons who were rendering nice
service to the Lord in this way! They are invited to these other programs,
where politics are discussed and then they are gone! that’s it ! And what
about the years of cultivation by the devotees at the temple? No one thinks
of these things!

According to Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, when a visiting sannyasi
comes to a certain zone, he is to seek the permission of temple authorities
before engaging in preaching. He is to stay in the temple or in
temple-sponsored/recommended residences and not whimsically pretend that no
local temple authorities exist. All of these are however fairy tales in
Singapore. Independent actions that bypass temple authority have become the
feature of sannyasis descent upon Singapore. These "programmes by ex-temple
congregation" as per Ghansham Prabhu’s description, are in fact nothing but
facilitators of such programmes by of many ISKCON sannyasis who visit
Singapore.

The official situation in Singapore furthermore is touchy for reasons that
are only too well known to the devotees all over the world. Instead of
easing tensions, this irresponsible behavior only aggravates our problems
amidst the difficult situation.
By his own admission, Gansham Prabhu has mentioned that the devotees "tried
to convince." This is clearly different from "coercion." Time and time
again, we provided him with information about ISKCON’s history and
constantly sought to hear his doubts and clarify them. But he never
revealed his mind simply because he never wanted to hear what was going on.
He tended to be more interested in what he personally wanted to believe. If
one is unhappy with this, then let him debate the issues and prove us
wrong. We shall be glad to admit our mistakes.

If he can clearly and openly prove us philosophically wrong, we are
prepared to facilitate his ideas and relinquish ours. But to not do so and
then to leave and bad-mouth devotees for one’s own indecisiveness is not
very gentlemanly. Not only that, the indecisiveness was almost always
coupled with duplicity and an attempt to canvass for activities that
undermined the preaching efforts of the fully dedicated devotees and their
supportive congregation.

If Gansham Prabhu has serious doubts about the ritvik system, he should
have gently but firmly voiced out his grievances openly to the authorities
and the other congregation members. We would be only glad to answer to the
best of our ability. He should have approached the issue as a student and
thrashed out his points with amity. But his attitude on the contrary was
one based on notions of "I do what I like." He always tended to run away
from the issues. What was worse, he and his wife were playing a double game
by organizing what were clearly programmes that only fuelled undercurrents.
He came to the temple to canvass for these programmes. Which temple
authority or loyal congregation would in all honesty entertain these
things? Would anyone want to dig his own grave by entertaining such a person?

Had Gansham Prabhu been a non-ritvik with an open mind who was
straightforward in his dealings and totally loyal to the temple, no
ultimatum would have been issued. Even then, kindly note that only an
ultimatum was issued and not an order to leave. Therefore, it was Gansham
Prabhu who chose to leave. Why then is he morose for his own decision to
leave behind his own worshipable Deities? If he had wanted, he could have
stayed on serving the Deities and being loyal to the temple. He need not
agree with us philosophically but let him forsake his duplicity. That is
our point. Loyalty must be straightforward and fixed, not wobbly and
disturbing to the others.

On the contrary, he was canvassing behind the backs of the temple
authorities, seeking attendance for alternative destabilizing programmes of
the critical disgruntled ex-congregation. On many festival days, he was not
to be found rendering service. On the contrary, he went elsewhere, even to
Malaysian temples in Kuala Lumpur and Johor, to attend programmes. So why
then does he now worry so much about not taking darshan of the Deities
here? If he felt so comfortable going for other programmes at the expense
of serving Their Lordships Sri Sri Radha Madan Mohan on their most
auspicious festival days, then let him go elsewhere and take darshan of Sri
Sri Radha Krishna. There is no loss for him either way! Loyalty is not
self-styled. It has definitive criterion. Srila Prabhupada never
entertained any endeavor that undermined the temple’s preaching. But here
we see such attempts being paraded as most welcome.

Many of the congregation devotees complained about these things to the
temple authorities and a unanimous decision was made to safeguard the
convictions of the newly emerging congregation. As such, everything was
done on a strictly consultative basis. Opportunities for consultation have
always been there. But it is up to the individual to utilize them. The
fault of non-consultation cannot be thrust upon the temple for one’s own
hesitation in coming forth.

There is no question of "whatever reasons." Gansham Prabhu only knows too
well what these reasons are, i.e. the undermining of our ritvik preaching,
the stealing of valuable and sincere devotees from the temple and the
creation of disruptive undercurrents. No temple authority or congregation
member loyal to the temple would entertain acts of this nature or their
sympathizers. The temple follows ritvik philosophy strictly and if Gansham
Prabhu wants to be considered loyal to the temple, then he must also be
loyal to this, and not his own ideas.

If he does not feel that we are following Srila Prabhupada’s words
strictly, then he should have told us directly and asked us why. He should
have attempted to understand why we say what we say and then rebutt and be
open to counter-rebuttals, all in the spirit of Vaishnava openness. If one
wants to have a programme at home, one should first of all seek the
permission of the local temple. But in this case, we feel that the
programmes entertain a system of guruship that is not supported by Srila
Prabhupada. Why then should we tolerate such programmes, especially on the
part of one who verbally claims to be loyal to the temple and Srila
Prabhupada, but who practically acts otherwise?!

We tolerated this duplicity for a good one year hoping that with time he
will mature and come off it. The very fact that we allowed him to be with
us for one year after becoming ritvik, clearly indicates the good tolerance
level of the temple devotees and the congregation. But one should not use
that tolerance to one’s own advantage. That is something that cannot be
tolerated. It was only when the acts of Gansham Prabhu began to strangle
the stability and peace within the temple that the unanimous decision was
made to issue him an ultimatum. Kindly note, that we did not ask him to
leave! We only issued him an ultimatum for his own spiritual surety and for
those with whom he relates. He cannot possibly be oscillating and confusing
everyone he comes across at the temple. Make up your mind and go in the
direction that you wish. But if you go in a certain direction, then you
simply cannot walk in another. You cannot walk in two directions with your
legs Gansham Prabhu!

And this is about a fundamental issue. Even if you don’t wish to follow the
rest of the temple community, do not disturb the minds of the others who
have chosen to! At least that much honesty would have prevented an
ultimatum from coming forth. So we gave you a choice and you went the other
way. You cannot protect the milk and still remain the thievish cat’s best
friend. Either you protect the milk or you help the cat steal the milk.
Never the twain shall meet. "Everyone’s servant is no one’s servant."
Please remember these words of Srila Prabhupada.

"I requested that maybe I be allowed to visit the temple and take darshan
of the Deities once a month which will be on a day when they don’t have
programme. They refused even this small mercy, which makes me feel very
disappointed with this attitude. To add insult to injury, they are unable
or unwilling to return a loan (not a donation) made by me to them and when
I requested on the phone for return of the money advanced the answer by the
temple president is a curt “I have no money. I don’t know when I will
return your money. Do whatever you want to do.””

There are no such “no program” days at the Singapore Temple. Devotees and
well-wishers are always coming to the temple for one reason or the other.
We do not wish to allow any more exodus from the temple due to Gansham
Prabhu’s canvassing. Do not feel disappointed because our disappointment
with him is even greater.

The financial dealings of the temple president with him are those
pertaining to private business dealings unrelated to temple finance. So far
as the temple records show, no loan has been recorded under the temple
accounts. We understand that the dealings are of a private business nature
related to another account and as such, please do not mix up philosophy
with pragmatic business dealings. That has got nothing to do with being
ritvik or otherwise. Business dealings have their problems and you would
have done well to settle that with him in private on a separate basis.
Financial difficulties unrelated to devotional service are not to be
presented to CHAKRA. To blame technical business problems on ritvik or
non-ritvik tendencies constitutes a logical misfit. It would not do Gansham
Prabhu well as a devotee to entertain such a misfit.

All is not lost yet. Gansham Prabhu is always welcome back to the temple if
he is prepared to amend his ways. He can officially write to the temple
committee and we shall review his case and then decide. There is no such
thing as eternal damnation within the Krishna Consciousness Movement.
Channels of open communication are always present provided one approaches
them with philosophical maturity and honesty. Double games will however not
be tolerated.

Regards,

The Committee & Congregation Singapore Temple
====================

4) WOE IS ME! PANCHA TATTVA DASA

Dear Janesvara prabhu,

Being a GBC in ISKCON these days is a pretty tough row to hoe, wouldn't you
say? Left, right and center, there are people who want to hang you for
things over which you have little or no control. Granted, the GBC have
dropped the ball in the past, and they should act like fire against child
abusers, women abusers, and cow abusers. How do you suggest they go about
it? A few constructive suggestions, besides the gigantic demand that
varnashrama be "implemented" (whatever that means), would contribute a
whole lot more toward solving problems then just railing against the leaders.

In more than one of the temple communities where I've lived, the GBC are
often treated like unwelcome guests. The temple managers don't want
anything more from the GBC than public pats on the back, regardless of the
problems they're facing. To consolidate power in their own petty baronies,
some temple leaders go to great lengths to paint the GBC as some sort of
bogeymen. In the mean time, if a GBC asks for something so ordinary as a
real monthly financial statement from the temple authorities, he is either
turned away outright or handed something that's a joke. If he inquires
about some problem that this devotee or that is having with the temple
administration, he is himself villified. And woe to anyone who would act as
his local secretary!

Let me tell you something, prabhu. In almost every case of child abuse, you
had middle managers in ISKCON down where their noses could have sniffed it
out, middle managers like temple presidents, vice presidents, temple
commanders, treasurers, board members, etc., who had the pulse of the
temple, and who failed to act responsibly. You had devotees turning their
backs, parents ignoring the pleas of their children, temple presidents
doing damage control, husbands and wives abandoning their responsibilities
to jump to another sex partner, etc.

Why do we only point at the GBC, ignoring the perpetrators themselves and
their immediate superiors? I find your complaints a little disingenuous,
and I feel pretty sure that Krishna will fulfill your desire to stay away
from the Vaishnavas - except of course, to criticize them over the
Internet. Unfortunately, instead of rolling up your sleeves and throwing in
your lot with them to solve the problems, you'll sit outside, daydreaming
about varnashrama and complaining about the lack of it. It's getting old,
Janesvara, really old.

ISKCON isn't in trouble because of the GBC. It's having problems because
its members are giving up Krishna consciousness for sense gratification.
While doing so, they want someone else to put out the fires, because
they're too busy enjoying - and lighting more fires. You say that you care,
and that's good; but it doesn't mean anything until you roll up your
sleeves and get to work fixing things, and nothing you do will amount to a
hill of beans unless you work cooperatively, because that's what Srila
Prabhupada wanted.

Your servant,

Pancha Tattva dasa

On 24 Feb 2000, Janesvara das wrote:

Until there is a consensus of the GBCs and other leaders of ISKCON who will
make a major act of contrition to all abused citizens and apologize to the
world I will remain away and practice Krsna consciousness with my few
devotee friends.

===========================

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

* http://www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site

* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P. REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage) 
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters: 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 
* POISON TRANSCRIPT 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm 

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (The GBC)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html  
* http://www.irg.zetnet.co.uk/  (IRG)
* http://www.come.to/irm (IRM)
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)  (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch
* http://www.vnn.org/ (VNN news)

* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)

Puranjana's new email
angel108b@yahoo.com



Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!