Puranjana's new email
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Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
1) Krishna Books Inc Announces Website Opening
2) VARSANA SWAMI UPDATE
3) ENDGAME TIME
4) POISON ISSUE REVIEW
Understanding Srila Prabhupada’s intention (Isa dasa)
5) RAGHU WRITES about gurukulis
Dear folks,
PAMHO. AGTSP.
[PADA is an online newsletter
going out to over 1,000 devotees and Hindu's. Please let us know
if you have
comments, or if you are not interested. We try our best to keep
our mailing list in order. Jai Srila Prabhupada!]
Please
let us know if you wish to add other addresses or cancell your
subsrciption.
PADA also may or may
not endorse all of the statements found in our featured letters.
EX-gurukuli apparently vandalized Ramai swami's luxury utility vehicle in
Australia. Just see the frustration these children have got for these big
luxury lifestyle "swamis." Apparently Ramai has also got other expensive
vehicles, and some kind of kind of expensive, well equipped, rock n roll
band operation in Australia as well -- a la Harikesha's big band dreams? A
report will come out in the next issue of pada.
======================
LOS ANGELES clique that refuses to sign a document that homosexual
pedophiles are not members, or links, in a chain of successors to people
like Jesus:
1) Ratnabusana das: Wayne Selzler (confirmed name)
2) Virabahu dasa: Marcos Zafarani (confirmed name)
======================
1) Krishna Books Inc Announces Website Opening
by Bhagavan das and Yasodanandana das
USA, January 18, 2000 -- Krishna Books Inc, the Licensee authorized by the
BBT to print and publish the pre-1978 Works of His Divine Grace A. C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, will open its website to the public at
krishnabooks.org on Gaura-purnima, March 18, 2000. The availability of
the
pre-1978 versions of Srila Prabhupada's Works will be announced on this
website as those books become available in print. Should you want to be
notified directly as Srila Prabhupada's pre-1978 Works become available for
sale, please send your e-mail contact information to kbi@krishnabooks.org
and you will be included on our Internet mailing list for future
announcements. Thank you.
==========================
2) VARSANA SWAMI UPDATE
Praabhu, ...I know the time the news broke was around August/Sept of 1998.
So perhaps Varsana finally said something by October or November of 1998.
Please accept my fallen obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! your
aspiring servant,
=========================
3) ENDGAME TIME
Hari Bol Prabhu:
Dandavats. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Looks like this thing is finally entering its endgame. Thank you for all
your awesome work! With all the feel good let's-kiss-and-make-up going on
in Mayapura these days, nothing less than full accountability, full
disclosure, complete resignation of all GBCs etc, etc, will be acceptable.
And that is only the start. They must return this Mission to Srila
Prabhupada and take all pains to make up for the hurt and deprivation they
have caused to countless devotees over the years. Then there is the law...
y.s. ***** dasa
=========================
4) POISON ISSUE REVIEW
Understanding Srila Prabhupada’s intention (Isa dasa)
I am not presenting this post as proof that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned.
Rather I am making a presentation to the assembled devotees asking you to
examine Srila Prabhupada’s words and what they may mean. In the
conversation where Srila Prabhupada says "The Ravana will kill and Rama
will kill", there is a question put to Srila Prabhupada and His answer
is
very strange.
Jagadisa: Srila Prabhupada, can you tell us why you want to go on the
parikrama?
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (break)
Prabhupada: ...good paddy. . . .
Prabhupada: The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill. Better to be killed
by Rama.
Why would Srila Prabhupada want to leave His room to get good rice?
When we read the introduction to Bhagavad Gita some light may be shed on
the subject. "As in the paddy field the unnecessary plants are taken out,
so it is expected from the very beginning of these topics that in the
religious field of Kuruksetra where the father of religion, Sri Krsna, was
present, the unwanted plants like Dhrtarastra's son Duryodhana and others
would be wiped out and the thoroughly religious persons, headed by
Yudhisthira, would be established by the Lord."
Let’s look at the next part of the conversation.
Tamala Krsna: This seems like suicide, Srila Prabhupada, this program.
It seems to some of us like it's suicidal.
Prabhupada: And this is also suicidal.
Tamala Krsna: Hm. Prabhupada said, "And this is also suicide."
Now you have
to choose which suicide.
Prabhupada: The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill. Better to be killed
by
Rama. Eh? That Marica--if he does not go to mislead Sita, he'll be killed
by Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better.
Tamala Krsna: Who is this Prabhupada's talking about?
(On the tape Tamala can be heard asking "who will serve Srila Prabhupada
poison")
Devotees: Marica.
Who is this Ravana Srila Prabhupada is talking about? Is it one person or a
group?
Does this conversation shed any light on the subect?
Amogha-lila: I heard that you had quoted a saying that anyone who goes
to
Lanka becomes a Ravana, and that similarly, when the devotees come to
India, they become Ravana. I wonder if you would explain that or elaborate
or explain how we can avoid this sort of thing happening. (break)
Prabhupada: Ask the leaders! I was talking that in all our other branches,
our men manage the cooking and kitchen and as soon as they come here, they
become varalasai. (?) That is Ravana. Why do they not do here? We have to
keep some cook who is neither initiated, nor very clean, a smoker, and we
have to keep them. (break) In all other branches, the boys and girls, they
manage everything. (break)
Amogha-lila: ...follow the regulations more strictly?
Prabhupada: That I have to say again? That means Ravana. He's asking.
I am
repeatedly saying that follow, and he's asking. That means he's Ravana. Why
you are inquiring like that. If you know this is the solution, why don't
you do it? That means Ravana. If you know this is the solution, why don't
you do it?
Original Text:
Jagadisa: Srila Prabhupada, can you tell us why you want to go on the
parikrama?
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (break)
Prabhupada: ...good paddy.
Tamala Krsna: This seems like suicide, Srila Prabhupada, this program. It
seems to some of us like it's suicidal.
Prabhupada: And this is also suicidal.
Tamala Krsna: Hm. Prabhupada said, "And this is also suicide." Now
you have
to choose which suicide.
Prabhupada: The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill. Better to be killed by
Rama. Eh? That Marica--if he does not go to mislead Sita, he'll be killed
by Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better.
Tamala Krsna: Who is this Prabhupada's talking about?
Devotees: Marica.
HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
=======================
5) RAGHU WRITES:
Dear PADA, Who ever wrote this condemnation of my proposal must be some hot
head new devotee so impressed with themselves as to make across the board condemn
of ideas and people he knows nothing about. They were too cowherdly to put
their name. If he wants to jump up and down in public, at least he should
know what and who he's talking about.
[PADA: Dear Raghunatha, I think that the main problem with your proposal is
that unless this issue goes to court the GBC will not honor it. That is
what many people are feeling. So even if we only want to give some of the
abused or molested gurukulis a nominal sum, the GBC has already shown that
they will not honor even a nominal agreement? That is why we need a formal
and legal agreement?]
RD: This $20 million proposal was done by me, one of the oldest kulis of
the entire movement, abused in more guru-kulis and under more teachers, GBC
and guru zones then any other kuli in the world. I have one of the harshest
and longest list of abuses of any kuli to match.
[PADA: Yet the problem is, and has been all along, how will we get the GBC
to make amends to their abused victims in practical terms? And for
starters, what are they doing to help you? We'd say, not a whole lot? You
told me yourself you are borderline homeless, so why don't they give you
some compensation for your abuses? You need money for the education you
never got, for starters, so have they offered that money to you? We do not
think so? Rather they sent Hrydayananda to Harvard, after Srila Prabhupada
wrote him a letter saying he should not go to college? They sent Tamal to
college? So, why have they not at least sent the gurukulis to get their
stolen education, as the bare minimum that they fairly owe your party?]
RD: As a result of my own personal experiences, I started the kuli
newsletters at a personal cost to me of $15,000 over 3 years but broke the
defeaning silence on the issue of child abuse in guru-kulas at long last. (Manu
was also a central role.) This unified the disenfranchised kulis against these
abuses
and finally provided the amunicition to devotees serious about reforming
the child abuse in ISKCON.
[PADA: So why didn't the GBC start a help-line newsletter first, or help or
fund your newsletter to help the children? You are saying you are their
victim, ok, so why are you, the victim, having to start a help-line crisis
department of ISKCON's youth with your own funds? And has the GBC offered
to pay you back the $15,000 plus another $15,000 for your time getting
these testimonies gathered? Probably not. That means your bringing this up
is merely a nuisance factor for them. Stalin does not like to hear about
the starvation problem in the concentration camps, he just wants the gold
mined at the camps.
That you had to "break the deafeaning silence" proves that the GBC
has had
no interest in helping their victims, that they are still playing at:
negligence, cover-up, and in sum further victimization. Yes, good point,
you have had to fund your own youth conscious newsletters, and form your
own outreach idea for the victimized, but that is not your job, that is the
GBC's job. This simply proves all the more how corrupt they are. They did
not form an outreach for their victims, the youth, until they were forced
to do so, and even then they only did the nominal amount, as a face saving
attempt and an attempt to stave off the threat of a lawsuit.
So, what you did with your newsletter was very good, you helped the youth
open up to some of their abuses and to speak out and get their stories out.
Yet, we have to take this to the next level, and get the people who created
these abusive situations into some type of practical accountability. And
these leaders are very corrupt, they just laugh at yours and ours little
peedle-pie newsletters, and in sum, they only take seriously lawyers, the
law, and so on. They have laughed at you and at our pada for years as well,
but now that we have some legal leverages creeping up on them, they are
taking these things more seriously.]
RD: I followed this up by starting the reunions (along with Lila, Ruks,
Janavi & Bahu) all against protest and condemnation by the GBC and gurus.
Worst of all, bozo-hotheads also condemned my work as an extention of the GBC.
[PADA: Well, agreed, this is the worst problem with our ability to
counteract the homosexual pedophile guru's regime, their opponents have
been scattered and fighting amongst themselves. Of course, we do not blame
the ex-gurukulis per se, since primarily the GBC (or a least the parents or
the Church elders) should have organized opposition way before it fell into
the hands of the children like yourself? Why did you have to start a
newsletter outreach to the abused youth? Why weren't the GBC or other
adults doing that?
You raise a good point here? A rape victim has to start a rape crisis and
compensation center, instead of the government starting such a program to
help rape victims? So, what is the use of such a government, they are not
doing their job. And in the case of the GBC, they forced children to
worship molesters. So the GBC policies were not only orchestrating
starving, beating and molesting of the children, they were instead lavishly
funding themselves to live like millionaire executives. Stalin's program.
Fund the henchmen, and starve and beat the masses. Stalin is Srila
Prabhupada's guru successor?
But you are right, many of the ex-children are somewhat confused, some of
them are fighting against --anyone-- they think of as being connected to
the GBC, while some of them are still defending the GBC. This is also
because some of their parents and elders are confused as well....]
RD: This was the final punishment for me because I faced a sceptical peer
group in starting these programs, official condemnations from GBC and gurus
and then belittled as nothing more then a GBC pawn by ISKCON ciritics.
Fortunately, kulis came and the rest is a wonderful history of reunions and
kuli reform actions in ISKCON.
[PADA: Good, but only a start. The main result of your "reforms"
was simply
to get the GBC to shed crocodlie tears, because they lied about their
promises to assist you, the ex-gurukulis, and that is why some of these
ex-gurukulis are now taking the legal route, they have been abused AGAIN
and AGAIN and AGAIN --with more GBC lies. Insult to injury. "We are sorry
for driving our army tank over you sir, here is a check for a million
dollars," and then the check bounces? Now you have been doubly victimized,
or what they call twisting the knife in the wound.]
RD: I organized all of those living outside of any temple or community -
Big Island of Hawaii which has no temple. I did live in a temple appartment
for only 3
years out of the last 13. I am again in Hawaii as I have been for the last
6 months - again no temple here. As usual, my proposal is looked upon with
trepidation by GBC and ISKCON critics alike.
[PADA: Well, the GBC sees your "financial payment" to the ex-gurukulis
"proposal" as very bad news for them in any event, because it means:
if
they do agree with it, they are guilty of large scale criminal negligence
(at the very least). And that means they have to do something about it. So
your proposal cannot be very much agreeable to them, since it would be an
admission of EXTENSIVE levels of guilt, MUCH more than they have admitted
to so far, and something they are trying to avoid --ALTOGETHER.]
RD: Again, kulis are also sceptical and feeling alittle reserved.
[PADA: Well, yes they are skeptical because for starters you have not shown
how it could be enforced even if the GBC agrees?]
RD: Yes, I know of the Turley case and its appeal for some kind of strong
action. In the face of their appeal, I stand here on my own once again trying
to
point out to all groups the wisdom and advantages of my latest, finding
some medium to work this out constructively.
[PADA: Nothing seems to have ever been "worked out" with these GBC
people
where they have truly kept their end of the bargain, chapter and verse?
Indeed, it looks like they have broken all of their so-called pledges, even
their legal responsibilities according to ISKCON's legal charters etc., all
along, such as to protect the senior devotees, children, the women, the
cows, and hey Raghu, they are still threatening to kill people --just AFTER
they pledged an amnesty and a new good guy make-over THIS YEAR? How many
times are they going to cry "wolf" and have you folks running around
thinking they are turning over a new leaf?]
RD: Anyone who's followed the kulis and reunions would have known this and
known me. If they don't, then at least they should be a little more
cautious about making blanket statements of condemnations of people and
their endeavors-especially in public.
[PADA: Well Raghu, your proposal was met with skepticism amongst some of
your own ex-gurukulis probably because they know it could not be enforced,
and others saw it as another diversion from getting to the real issue, for
example, making a legal case which can prove things like criminal
negligence and thus address the problem and the problem makers in a
practical and concrete manner.]
RD: I'm proposing this settlement because I feel "we" not you, have
much
more to benefit financially and otherwise. The the law suit would provide you
some
perverse satisfaction in that "Iskcon will be publicly shamed," but
I"m not
convinced that this would be the best deal for "us." kulis.
[PADA: Well, even if your proposal is simply to nominally compensate some
of the abused, your proposal was not taken seriously because it has no
teeth of enforcement. Let's say I promise to pay you five cents next week.
Then I don't do it. That means you never had, or will have, five cents,
only a bogus agreement that cannot be enforced.
ISKCON will also not be shamed if this goes to court, rather a few corrupt
leaders will be shamed, and ISKCON will continue and it will be gradually
purged of their influences, and the victims will have a vehicle for some
type of psychological relief of getting their attackers back, which is very
important for your fellow victims. Many times when people sue for wrongful
deaths and so on, it is not about the money. People want to feel some
relief at being victimized. That is something you have not understood very
clearly here? And since some of your compadres are depressed, taking drugs,
commiting suicide and so forth, we think the time is now to quit dragging
our feet. In fact, we think the time to quit dragging feet was 20 years ago?]
RD: I can only see the kulis walking away with about $40,000 to $60,000
each after about 4 to 8 years of court. This proposal provides $40,000 in
almost the same time frame starting in a couple months. This proposal is
about us, not you and your need to revenge and humiliate others. I'm
convinced the law suit will bankrupt the movement leaving "us" with
nothing, no money and no temples for reunions for our friends & Gaura
Purnims, etc.
[PADA: For starters, you could say any damn thing, $40 or %4,000,000 per
victim, but who cares, your proposal has no teeth and it therefore it
cannot be enforced? Svavasa has not even given up his BMW, Hrdayananda
still has his big town car, and so on, so they have given up nothing, yet
they keep making empty promises.]
RD: This $500 million is daydreaming on crack. Even ISKCON's critics admit
that the GBC has plundered and wasted all of the movement's wealth and
assets. If so, how can there possibly be $500 million still left. Its
either been raided by curruption or it hasn't which means ISKCON is not
corrupt. Make up your mind. I feel it has been squeezed of all its real
value and so working to make the best deal out of a bad bargain.
[PADA: So, if the leaders are siphoning off funds, leaving no money to help
the children, then this should be exposed, and they should be sued, and
this will make pressure to have them removed. This is criminal activity.
This should be brought up in the court case, the funds for the children are
being siphoned off all along, hence the children were starved, beaten and
molested, and this process is still in force today: no funds left, sorry.
But we have plently of funds for our Beverly Hills house, Berkeley Hills
house, Harvard degree, luxury town car funds etc.? Criminals.]
RD: When I started the newsletters and reunions, I was told by supporters
that I was wasting my time. Kulis would not be interested because it's too
devotionally oriented and the GBC & ISKCON would never allow it. A few
other stalwarts like Manu faced this same wet-blanket reception. Well,
fortunately, the reunions have grown each year since then with LA Ratha
yatra's last one having about 250-biggest ever followed with the GBC
putting more of both in school and child abuse reforms as well as $.
[PADA: And I attended one of your recent reunions. And you all practically
unanimously told Bir Krishna and Prithu to get their child beater guru
Dhanurdhara out of office, but these "gurus" argued with you and would
not
agree. Prithu and Bir even said that there are no verified witnesses, when
they were talking to you, the verified witnesses! That means: we love
perverts, child molesters and child beaters sitting in Srila Prabhupada's
seat, and if you don't like it --stick it up yours, even if you know those
who were punched in the head or you EYE-WITNESSED the abuse!
Mind you, both of these guru guys are voted in at a known pedophile's guru
recoronation, and so both of these fools are walking around waving their
"guru certificates" which are covered with an odd sticky substance
that
might contain AIDS, and they are proud as peacocks. "See, I was voted in
as
guru with the known homosexual pedophile gurus, so will you lick my booties
now"! No, but the health department should inspect your guru ceritificate?
Excuse us, but even Satan is not ever voted in as an authority with known
homosexual pedophiles since he has a little common sense and dignity?
I saw one of the boys who was protesting later on and he looked very sad,
depressed and shocked that the GBC laughed at his complaint. VERY ABUSIVE
part 2, 3, 500, etc. You don't seem to get it here Raghunatha? These people
promote child abusers as gurus because they hate children. They hate Jesus,
otherwise why would they say that a known pedophile is like Jesus? They
hate Srila Prabhupada because they spit on us his worshippers and try to
beat us if not kill us? You are not dealing with the reality of what has
been going on here. And we all know that Srila Prabhapada said he was being
poisoned, that the Ravana will kill (me), he is like Marici i.e. he will be
killed soon, and now you are thinking they are going to sit down and listen
to you when they do not want to hear from him?
At another reunion, Hrdayananda, founder and reinstator of the pedophile
guru program, was chatting it up with four or five of your young ladies? It
seems he has no interest in helping you guys? And he actually pushed me off
the sidewalk like a large hog once: to go and stick his smiling face into
the Bharat Natyam young ladies' faces? How does this help you?]
RD: These reforms and $ are a far cry of what's needed and of course
required a great deal of arm twisting, but they are more then anyone
including the GBC could have ever imagined when we first set out to do
these things.
[PADA: Why do we have to twist the GBC's arms to help molested and abused
people that were in their care? That is the first problem Raghunatha?]
RD: The latest proposal I feel is the next step of this evolution that
started a decade ago. It's about more then compensating us of the past,
it's a system in which victims of the present and future can find justice as
well.
[PADA: Meaning exactly what? What is your concrete means of enforcing these
proposals of yours?]
Hot heads may not be able to understand, but at least they could just leave
me alone and wish me luck. Raghunatha anudasa
[PADA: We always wish you good luck Raghunatha.]
===========================
SITES TO CHECK OUT:
*
http://www.prabhupada.cc
Prabhupada samkirtana site
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
*
http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P.
REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage)
* http://www.vedabase.com/ (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)
* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters:
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933
* POISON TRANSCRIPT
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
* http://www.winink.com/tkg/ (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc (The GBC)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com (e-mail)
* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html
* http://www.irg.zetnet.co.uk/ (IRG)
* http://www.come.to/irm (IRM)
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/ (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm) (Cyber
gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch
* http://www.vnn.org/ (VNN news)
* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S
TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy
In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)