1) Sorry, PADA will not play that game.
2) Raghunatha dasa writes

Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

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1) Sorry, PADA will not play that game.

What we at PADA see happening now is the expected backlash from the court case filing. We expected all of this uproar since it disturbs the corrupt; the status quo bureaucrats; the sentimentalists, and so on and so forth. Mainly, the critics have focused on some of the negative emotions that some of the ex-gurukulis have, and how this may be reflected in the case itself. Yet this seems to us to be a smokescreen from the real issue: who exactly is on trial here? Are the victims on trial? Oh oh, some of the victims of the inquisition are cursing the Church. Ummmm, no kidding? Wow, like when did you figure this out speed ball?

So let us keep holding the line here and not let the first and foremost issue get lost in the smokescreen, again. And what is that issue? It is that many of these children are victims of something horrible. And that means that someone else is responsible. Not them. Some of the victims now blame Srila Prabhupada. How has that has occured? Were they trained to think that way by some of the elders? Yes. Take Adridharana dasa for example. He was preaching that in order to go back to Godhead, you children all have to bow down and worship Adri's --enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophile's regime. And he said "this is what Srila Prabhupada wants you children to do." Nope. This is never what Srila Prabhupada wanted even a dog or a cockroach to do. So, the GBC and Adri type's party confused the children. He mixed up the imagery of Srila Prabhupada with his Satanic pervert's cult. That is not the fault of the victims? Now, the victims are confused, and some of them are lashing out. No kidding?

Adri, many elders, the GBC, the Gaudiya Matha advisors, and similar others said, "This (molester pooja) is what Srila Prabhupada wants for you." No, this is not EVER what Srila Prabhupada wants for you. Ever. In sum, the de facto message seems to have been: "Srila Prabhupada wants you to live like an concentration camp criminal being starved, beaten and molested, and worse, worshipping 'as good as Jesus' the homosexual pedophile nest builders"? Worse, this corrupt situation was and still is confused by many adults, what to speak of some of the children?

Worse, many of the biggest leaders, senior men, and other adults acquiesced with this evil empire and they have still not even got rid of such odious examples as the KNOWN child beater Dhanurdara as "Krishna's and Srila Prabhupada's successor." Then we wonder why the kids are "offensive"? The adults stand back and allow the worship of the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophiles regime to go on in their Church, and then they complain that the chilren are confused? And offensive? Well, you adults are letting child beaters sit in Srila Prabhupada's seat? Excuse me, aren't you at least a little tinged by some offense here? Or worse, isn't your acquiescing the CAUSE of this offense? This means that the leaders and adults are/were not effective to change this horrible travesty going on TODAY. That means the main real blame lies with the adults/leaders TODAY.

Some of the adults/leaders are still corrupt or confused, either way they cannot get a child beater off of Srila Prabhupada's seat. TODAY. Some of them just copped-out and started smoking pot. Some of them are/were corrupt and so on. In sum, there are a small number of sincere folks, but not enough people joined the resistance? Therefore the resistance sort of failed up till now as well, due to lack of support. And so now we wonder: "Why are these kids confused"? Huh? Many elders are still confused and fighting over stupid issues, and as such, they cannot even unite to get rid of the Satanic child beater worship cult TODAY?

And so now the GBC, some prominent IRM members, Bhagavan and similar others want to make this out to be (de facto) "a trial of the ex-gurukulis." No wonder. A spotlight has been placed down into the basement and we see that there are a number of do-nothings, lackeys, criminals and current (or ex) gang members hiding under there. "Oh, this is not me on trial, why it is the victims who are holding the spotlight who should be on trial." Ummm hmmmm. This actually occurs in real life. A crook breaks into a man's house, the man shoots the criminal, then the criminal sues the man for excessive force. The victim is now --the criminal? No, first things first. If these children have a bad attitude, then who is responsible for that outcropping? Who is on trial? The victims? Or are the agressors and those who supported the agressors on trial? Isn't it the leaders and/or adults who are really on trial? We would say, yes.

If we go to a concentration camp and say, "Hey folks, it is time to go to Church and worship Jesus along with Hitler, who wants to come"? No one wants to come? Why not? So, we still have the leaders of the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophiles in charge of our Church, and then we wonder why some of the ex-kids are bitter. They may not want to participate? Or they may want to attack that situation. No kidding? If you saw the leader of your concentration camp STILL being worshipped as good as God in your Church, you'd be uspet too. You'd be outraged. You would lash out too. Or your might cop out and smoke pot like many adults have done, and so on. No kidding.

Thus, this is a problem first and foremost with the leaders and adults. The kids are just the victims of what the adults created for them. So, are we at pada going to jump on board along with the people who are critical of the abused and some of their bitter mood? Nope. We are not going to play that game. PADA has postponed indefinately the trial of the kids until the issue of the leaders and adults role is resolved first of all.

ys pd

================================

2) From: Anudasa@aol.com
Subject: To sue or not to sue
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:28:10 EDT

Insurance Policy Covers Settlement

1) Court-cost will bankrupt leaving all assets for Turley's taking.
2) To Sue or Not to Sue-Judge the facts stack the lawsuit with favorable kulis
3) Turley, the Only Option
4) Blaming Prabhupada masks abusers guilt; kuli gripes more then
legitimate, lead to a new glorification of Prabhupada
5) Best lawsuit preparation: chronology of Prabhupada on guru-kula; Let
there be at least one voice to represent Prabhupada
6) IMPORTANT COURT STRATEGY!

1) Court-cost will bankrupt leaving all assets for Turley's taking.

By Raghunatha Anudasa
(This is not Raghunatha Stocker nor is this Dasa Anudasa. They are both different people and the mistaken identity has caused me much grief. Please do not edit this line out if you care to print, post or forward this article. Thank you.)

Maharaja mentioned as long as a couple years ago, that ISKCON has taken out an insurance policy to handle court settlements for lawsuits like Turley's. This has been confirmed by a number of more reliable sources, a written confirmation from them would be nice. This may explain the lack of urgency I noticed from a number of leaders while pushing for a pre-trial settlement. The other reasons for their confidence: "not our responsibility" -Jaya Adwaita Sw. as BBT trusty; "not our fault" -most leaders & devotees; "too long ago" & in foreign lands-ISKCON legal council; "never" get past "Indian courts" where most assets are; and the case will be settled quickly using insurance policy to pay.

A couple problems: Turley refused to meet or even talk with ISKCON attorneys. And worse, the size of the settlement is apparently too large for the insurance policy. Turley intends to use among others things, the RICO act, racketeering laws, which does not carry the same legal constraints in proving culpability of individuals, institutions and places while also side stepping the statute of limitations. Every ISKCON property, leader and teacher past and present can potentially be held under this law. Adri's Calcutta lawsuit also provides a number of scenarios by which Turley may now coordinate his case there in India to successfully nab those temples. Panic has set in. "It's not my fault" no longer seems good enough when it comes to child abuse within our society.

Talked with a devotee who just sold his business for $20 million. His attorney is somewhat of a close acquaintance of Turley's. This attorney's account: Turley is going to soften up the American public-juries, and especially India's public opinion, with years of horrific publicity. Much of this court fight is about public opinion through bad press. It's a media war. It was suggested that Turley may not care for a settlement. If he can break ISKCON financially through years of legal wrangling, he would win by default.

An apparent estimate is that ISKCON has a maximum legal budget of $10 million. That could be exhausted in just a few years. After that, ISKCON drops the case. Basically, ISKCON can no longer afford a defense. ISKCON will be handed over to Turley. All assets and related institutions such as the BBT will be handed over. None will have the resources to defend themselves.

2) To Sue or Not to Sue-Judge the facts stack the lawsuit with favorable kulis. The problem with this report like most others is that it's as much speculation as it is second hand accounts. This in turn leaves little to go-on for deciding how best to respond. Therefore, we should keep to the facts. I, like other guru-kulis, must decide whether to join the lawsuit. To sue or not to sue? This is the $400 million dollar question. I have received dozens of such inquires from friends and family, devotees and GBC. I have been weighing the options carefully.

Here are the facts as I see them.
Fact: The lawsuit is filed.
Fact: There will be a great deal of publicity.
Fact: ISKCON, Prabhupada, leaders and the very culture of KC will be scrutinized and condemned like never before.
Fact: There will be a settlement.
Fact: Properties & monies will be taken from ISKCON.
Fact: Guru-kulis will receive these monies.
Everything else besides these FACTS is speculation, posturing and emotional bantering.

Given these FACTS, here are the only options I see. Do we want guru-kulis favorable to Prabhupada and ISKCON represented in the court transcripts and publicity or should we leave it to those who blame and hate both? Do we want monies and assets given to guys with no devotional or preaching inclinations or given to guru-kulis who love Prabhupada and Krishna? The answer is obvious. Stack the lawsuit with guru-kulis favorable to Prabhupada and Krishna.

Most of the leaders I talked with over the year agreed with this premise. Many no longer give their support for kulis joining the lawsuit though they are still of two minds about it. All the other options the GBC, devotees and guru-kuli's are suggesting -finally -should have been pursued prior to court filing. We had at least a year, closer to 25 years. Now, it's too late. Let's get as many favorable guru-kulis on the stand as possible.

Example: Turley wins $400 million = $10 million per each of the 40 guru-kuli. Turley gets half. If I joined, I get $5 million. I could buy back the entire LA temple. One temple is then saved. Guru-kulis will likely get much less then $5 million, but the point remains the same: kulis who are devotionally inclined will spend their monies to the benefit of preaching, devotees and Prabhupada. Manu, Vrindavan das, Rupa Manohara, Krsna Kirtan and Deva Deva serve as just a few cases in point. Most of their extra time and disposable income has directly gone into devotionally related projects. We should feature how much some of these OLDER guru- kulis are doing. You maybe as surprised as you are impressed.

In short, our only choice here is simple: Who gets the $? This is decided by who joins the lawsuit. Again, all other considerations are nothing more then political posturing, emotional bantering and speculation.

3) Turley, the Only Option. I say this as some one who spent months of time writing and debating with my guru-kula friends and ISKCON skeptics to see if we could find some simple, "doable" and positive pre-trial settlement with the GBC. No reply from any ISKCON leader in the world. (Well Kavichandra Sw. did say hello.) Most had received my pleas and proposals. It was 7 months later before I heard from anyone. Their big offer: will get back to you shortly. Too little, too late. By then, the court case had already been filed. These efforts don't include the hundreds of dollars I spent calling dozens of leaders, friends, teachers and other interested parties cajoling, negotiating and pleading for some kind of dialogue between kulis, ISKCON and devotees at large.

Again, this was without a single call back from any ISKCON leader or any other devotee, except Anuttama, after 3 months and nearly a dozen massages. Like everyone else, Anuttama deferred to someone else. The abusers and GBC should have been making these efforts, not me, the victim. The GBC seemed genuinely sincere about resolving these issues -- as did the devotees. They had me convinced. I thought that they just didn't know what to do. So I wrote the proposal: $20 Million Settlement 4 Kulis. Once again, little response from anyone. I can but help wonder if ANYONE really cares. This is a sad tale. It means ISKCON lacks the ability to deal with guru - kulis outside the Turley lawsuit. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY FOR A GURU-KULI TO ACTUALLY RESOLVE THINGS WITH ISKCON, but through Turley. I've tried. Turley is the only option. This is not Turley's fault or the guru-kulis, but ISKCON's. A number of leaders have admitted as much.

4) Blaming Prabhupada masks the abusers; kuli gripes more then legitimate, lead to a new glorification of Prabhupada. I also say this as someone who spent months writing hundreds of pages in defense of Prabhupada based upon my own 10 years of experience of him in pre-77, guru-kulas. This is primarily taken from my time in Vrindavan where Prabhupada spent most of the last couple years of his life. I gave it my best; 30 hour weeks, writing dozens of postings, worth hundreds of pages. No response from ISKCON leaders. Few devotees responded while others complained about how long the postings were. Many wanted off the mailing list.

Today, 2 years later, I have a dozen letters asking how and why guru - kuli's are blaming Prabhupada. The answer is obvious, the GBC and the devotees at large have failed to properly address this issue much as they have the other concerns of guru-kulis. Some devotees have recently made valiant attempts by posting some reprints from Prabhupada's letters. Though the letters are nice, they are anecdotal at best. For those who would like to pursue this more thoroughly, they may want to read my postings on Prabhpuada and guru-kula. I can send them upon request and will be posting them on Chakra and VNN. The essays offer something of a chronology of abuse, Prabhupada's responses to it, and how Prabhupada's efforts then affected us as students. They offer an outline to work from.

I enjoyed writing about Prabhupada but more importantly; I hated these abusers hiding behind the mantle of Prabhupada. Blaming Prabhupada masks the abusers and dissipates the extent of their blame for their crimes. It seems that Nirmala Chandra was the first kuli to really push this blame of Prabhupada. I wonder how much of this is his father's influence, Jagadish, ex-minister of education, and how much of this is a son's natural loyalty to avoid blaming his own Dad. This is generally true of others who blame Prabhupada-their dads where prominent devotees. Yet, I also wonder if I'm being fair with these friends of mine. Have they brought up a valid point?

As I see it, they blame a kind and innocent man, Prabhupada, who gave his best to offer a great treasure otherwise systematically sabotaged by monsters. I want those monsters exposed, if not punished for their crimes. Don't blame Prabhupada in place of the guilty. I don't defend Prabhupada as a disciple, but as a child who is thankful for the kindness and efforts of a grand well-wisher; for this is where Prabhupada means the most to me as a man and as a devotee. Do you trust that Prabhupada will indeed clear his own name upon closer review? I do. If so, we will have nothing but every confidence to see this side of Prabhupada's character highlighted. The ones who will make this happen are Prabhupada's lawsuit critics. They will force the issue. Devotees would not otherwise take the time for this issue. After everything is said and done, Prabhupada will shine through in greater glory.

I say this confidently as one how has studied this issue more thoroughly than most anyone else in the world and did so in conjunction with the first hand experienced of Prabhupada's personal accommodation of me and my Vrindavan guru-kula buddies as lowly children of the Hare Krsna movement. It's for reasons like this that we should be cautious not to disrespect these guru-kulis. Their pain and suffering was punishment enough and their gripes maybe more then legitimate, they may lead to a new found glorification of Prabhupada.

My concern is that Turley will compromise his case by going after Prabhupada and the religion rather then the leaders and abusers. Then justice maybe lost. Time will tell.

5) Best suit preparation: chronology of Prabhupada on guru-kula; Let there be at least one voice to represent Prabhupada. For us, a chronological account of Prabhupada on guru-kula would be a great way to prepare for this lawsuit and media barrage. Don't waste time condemning guru-kulis. Let's put our energies into this Prabhupada - guru - kula, chronology. A chronology will reveal such issues as the progression from Prabhupada's "instructions" as "show the stick," to the stick becoming a 2 by 10 bat for whipping us. To do a good job will take the help of devotees like Dayananda, Harinya Garba aka Jagad Ananda and Dhanur Dhara. It will also require some resources.

It's time consuming; it takes months. Last time, I wrote at the expense of my rent. I almost got thrown out of the LA temple apartments because I fell months behind. I don't want that anguish again. I feel this lawsuit provides a timely forum that is as formal as it is urgent in finally clarifying the guilt of monsters from the efforts and kindness of Prabhupada and his true devotees. It's the very thing I have been waiting decades to see happen. The day has finally come and so I join the lawsuit. Let there be at least one, lone voice to represent Prabhupada, the spiritual leader, the man, and my "ever well-wisher."

Raghunatha Anudasa

================================

6) IMPORTANT COURT STRATEGY!

From a book called "Disorder in the Court". These are things people actually said in court, word for word, taken down and now published by court reporters - who had the torment of staying calm while these exchanges were actually taking place.

Q: What is your date of birth?
A: July fifteenth.
Q: What year?
A: Every year.

Q: What gear were you in at the moment of the impact?
A: Gucci sweats and Reeboks.

Q: This myasthenia gravis, does it affect your memory at all?
A: Yes.
Q: And in what ways does it affect your memory?
A: I forget.
Q: You forget. Can you give us an example of something that you've forgotten?

Q: How old is your son, the one living with you.
A: Thirty-eight or thirty-five, I can't remember which.
Q: How long has he lived with you?
A: Forty-five years.

Q: What was the first thing your husband said to you when he woke up that morning?
A: He said, "Where am I, Cathy?"
Q: And why did that upset you?
A: My name is Susan.

Q: And where was the location of the accident?
A: Approximately milepost 499.
Q: And where is milepost 499?
A: Probably between milepost 498 and 500.

Q: Sir, what is your IQ?
A: Well, I can see pretty well, I think.

Q: Did you blow your horn or anything?
A: After the accident?
Q: Before the accident.
A: Sure, I played for ten years. I even went to school for it.

Q: Do you know if your daughter has ever been involved in voodoo
or the occult?
A: We both do.
Q: Voodoo?
A: We do.
Q: You do?
A: Yes, voodoo.

Q: The youngest son, the twenty-year old, how old is he?

Q: Were you present when your picture was taken?

Q: So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?
A: Yes.
Q: And what were you doing at that time?

Q: She had three children, right?
A: Yes.
Q: How many were boys?
A: None.
Q: Were there any girls?

Q: You say the stairs went down to the basement?
A: Yes.
Q: And these stairs, did they go up also?

Q: How was your first marriage terminated?
A: By death.
Q: And by whose death was it terminated?

Q: Can you describe the individual?
A: He was about medium height and had a beard.
Q: Was this a male, or a female?

Q: Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition notice which I sent to your attorney?
A: No, this is how I dress when I go to work.

Q: Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead people?
A: All my autopsies are performed on dead people.

Q: All your responses must be oral, OK? What school did you go to?
A: Oral.

Q: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
A: The autopsy started around 8:30 p.m.
Q: And Mr. Dennington was dead at the time?
A: No, he was sitting on the table wondering why I was doing an autopsy.

Q: Are you qualified to give a urine sample?

Q: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
A: No.
Q: Did you check for blood pressure?
A: No.
Q: Did you check for breathing?
A: No.
Q: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
A: No.
Q: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
A: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
Q: But could the patient have still been alive nevertheless?
A: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law somewhere.

===========================

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
* http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg

* PRABHUPADANUGA'S:
* Oldham, UK (PSSHearing@prabhupada.freeserve.co.uk)
* New York City, phone: 212-674-0698 (pss52@hotmail.com)
* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* http://iskcontimeline.homepage.com Nandini's history site
* http://www.krishnabooks.org Krishna Books
* http://www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site

* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P. REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage) 
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters: 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 
* POISON TRANSCRIPT 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm 

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (GBC expose)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html  
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)  (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch

* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)