* RE: SUHOTRA
1) RE: MORE FALLOUT OVER TURLEY CASE
2) Rocana writes:

Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

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Dear Puranjan,

Regarding this 'Swami' - Suhotra.

Who ever confired such a title on one with so little control over his mind and senses?

This is a prime example of what happens when you rubber stamp an ordinary man as a 'swami' and a 'guru'. The result of such irresponsible actions is that it creates havoc within society and makes a mockery of the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya. Those responsible for 'electing' this pathetic individual have to answer for their actions to all of the saints in our Parampara.

One who strictly follows the path of bhakti, following the orders of his spiritual master will become like the sun at midday - untouchable by the material modes. This shadow of a man is totally Popped-out! (Rather than locked - up - soft - bent - and - dry!). He is not even fit to be a brahmacari - or a householder! What a sham.

Ys. "Mad as Hell" Kulasekhara das.

[PADA: Yes this is where the GBC/ Gaudiya Matha idea of "rubber stamping conditioned souls as gurus" turns out to be a false platform, and a severely offensive platform. This is like rubber stamping a rusty tin can as solid gold. It is what Srila Prabhupada always warned us about: the Gaudiya Matha's "guru rubber stamping" fiasco. What is amazing is that they always say "this is what Srila Prabhupada always wanted." What? He wanted fools posing as Krishna's successors?]

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1) RE: MORE FALLOUT OVER TURLEY CASE

Wa at pada have been notified that some parents of the abused are supporting their children in the lawsuit, while a few other parents are angry and are villifying their children for participating. Apparently, one of these angry parents happens to be a big contributor to the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophiles regime even up to the present day. And as such, his large donations could have been used as a source for a so-called "devotee" lawsuit way back some considerable years ago? This seems to prove: there is no excuse for the lack of action, there was and is just plainly: a lack of action.

This parent not only failed in his duty to rectify the situation, he was and still is always critical of us at pada, and he did nothing to address the wounds of these children, even his own children. Now he is angry at his own children. So this is important, some parents sided with the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophiles regimes all along, and they still do, and they would rather be supportive of that regime than their own kids! Now, why would children have a negative attitude in this environment: some ask? Ummm, duh! Some sided with the Gestapo, then they wonder why they are not invited to the refugee survivor's club meetings? Wake up!

The "who is to blame" issue is starting to boil over as well, as we all expected. The blame swapping, finger pointing, fault finding, answerability arguments, liability targetting, guilt tripping, and so on will increase with the boom lowering. Pada predicts: it is going to get a lot worse. Yet it is all for nothing. Passing the buck-ology will not work in a courtroom setting. So far, some administrators (Sri Rama comes to mind) and some parents (you know who they are) have tried to blame Srila Prabhupada either directly or indirectly for the gurukula "troubles." Indeed, some have done this all along in order to "pass the buck" and blame "someone else" for umpteen other crises in ISKCON, such as the guru fiasco and so on. Now some of the children have picked up this argument, as they were trained to do. Not only were they trained this way, they had this form of argument drummed into their heads like military marching music in a concentration camp.

Moroever, when pada forwarded the poison issue, and we pointed out that Srila Prabhuada's directives were not only being ignored, they were being resented and despised, notice how we did not get much support? Many peole still believed that most of the GBC are basically the faithful flag bearers of Srila Prabhupada's mission, or that the GBC are sincere and that they "tried their best." Certainly, most GBC are not the kind of people who will butcher Srila Prabhupada's instructions about the gurukulas, nor will they butcher his followers, his books, or even, Srila Prabhupada himself?

Therefore "blaming Srila Prabhupada" is not something unique to a few gurukulis, it has been going on all over the movement for many years amongst many of the "adults." It is a handy argument since it takes people off the hook for what happened. Alas, it is an over simplified and hypocritical reply. Indeed, if an elderly gentleman was being discounted if not poisoned by his unruly sons, few would expect that the elderly gentleman would have been responsible for the actions of these unruly sons? This is just the ordinary mundane level of realization. That is why such a few number people have jumped onto the poison issue, it makes them even more accountable and they are in denial. And perhaps that is why folks like Adri are opposed to it as well, since he has had his fingers in many messy pies, such as his role in the gurukula fiasco if in no other role than "maunam samyam raksati."

Srila Prabhupada said in 1971, "the most sinister movement is within this movement." This was known to many of us elders and thus we should have banded together to keep this element in check. Anyway, to finger point at the children who are on the lowest rung in the dog-eat-dog chain here is not going to help anything at this point. It is not going to "take off the hook" the responsibility of the GBC, some parents, leaders who should have taken action years ago like Adri, or folks like Narayana Maharaja who rationalize that his support of this regime is fine because "this is all the children's karma."

So pada's suggestion is that more folks should help the abused children, and if that means helping shape and input into the Turley case then so be it. You are not going to help shape the outcome of this case by sitting back with more criticisms? Nor are you going to convince the ex-children of your view by harassing and villifying them all the more? In sum, if you want to shape and change things within the outcome of the Turley case, especially at this point in the game, you will have to add your input directly to the case.

thanks pd

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http://www.harekrsna.com/lawsuit
2) Rocana writes:

From my vantage point, which is outside of the institutional perspective, I've long been aware of the fact that this case was due to manifest. It is, essentially, the predictable outcome of how the children were perceived -- and therefore treated -- since the very early days of ISKCON. My own experience goes back to the day when I joined, as one of the few young devotees to come to the movement with a wife and child. My child was less than six months old at the time, and was one of the first children to go to the Dallas gurukula.

When I joined, my direct authority was Jagadisa dasa who, along with his wife, Laxmimoni, quickly emerged as key figures in the gurukula system. Due to my friendship with both of them, I was aware of the ongoing struggles they faced in creating and maintaining the gurukulas. I eventually oversaw one of the schools for a few years, which manifested in Seattle after the sudden closure of the Dallas gurukula, around 1976. Today my daughter, Maya Charnell, is one of the key personalities instigating this court case, along with Jagadisa's son, Nirmal Hickey. While Maya lived with my wife and I for a period during the mid-1990's, she helped me become aware of many issues regarding children and the gurukula.

I discovered what I'd been sublimating, and was in a certain amount of denial about. In some ways, the bottom line is not whether a particular event happened exactly how they recalled, or not. Most of these children passed through the whole ISKCON experience, coming out the other side, with a very negative impression of everything to do with the society. Many left with a negative impression of Srila Prabhupada, what to speak of not being followers of Lord Sri Krsna. Overwhelmingly, A large majority felt they had been abused. Their stories bring up a lot of issues, not only about how we as a society treated our children, but about how we treated each other, and the embarrassing degree to which we were harboring impersonal attitudes.

We're now on the brink of receiving a severe case of karmic reaction for our unconsciously ignorant acts. Each individual devotee will have to come to certain conclusions, based on their own history in ISKCON, about the reactions they personally experience. Our individual conclusions will be colored by how far back our service goes, what temples we were involved in, and whom we sided with on various contentious issues along the way. Many will feel that they are being forced to take sides.

On one hand, the court case is attacking Srila Prabhupada: threatening the confiscation of temples where deities have long been residing. This is likely to impact a large number of sincere people. On the other hand, our children were offended -- and there were an amazing number of offenses committed against them. Our philosophy tells us that we have to suffer the reaction for committing offenses.

We're all aware of the many quasi-illegal activities that were perpetrated and performed under institutional auspices, but these activities were seldom serious enough to catch the attention of the government. Until the child abuse issue -- and this one is likely to bring focus to many of the seemingly less serious activities. The leadership of ISKCON obviously never considered the future devastation that could be wrought by the gurukula abuse issue. We're now well past the point of safe return, and are left to consider what it is that Krsna himself is now teaching all those who care to learn.

It's my opinion that the original ISKCON has not existed since Srila Prabhupada left, and neither has the GBC. In large part, those who wanted to exploit the concept of GBC and the concept of being in Srila Prabhupada's original movement have created this fiasco. If they were honest, they would simply have admitted a long time ago that ISKCON was immediately divided into various different guru-doms. These factions had a loose alliance with one another, and saw the advantage of flying the ISKCON flag. Consequently, the legal system can now use this facade to prove that legal links existed between many of the temples, and they can thus attack the whole organization. The GBC's futile passing of a multitude of unenforceable laws can now be shown as legal proof that it was all one organization, ruled by an entrenched oligarchy.

ISKCON's leaders did not do as Srila Prabhupada mandated. The GBC were instructed to become saintly persons, preaching and traveling from temple to temple to see that spiritual standards were maintained. Instead, they immersed themselves in creating a complex system of government that served no real purpose. They were simply a group of individuals pretending to be in control. They passed laws and issued dictates, and gave the legal perception that they were in control of the entire movement, which wasn't at all true. For this reason, I believe that they deserve much of the blame for what we're about to see unfold. Srila Prabhupada's original plan was to set-up individual temples, overseen by non-administrative GBC. He knew that we were likely to make mistakes, and wanted the ramifications to be localized, so that each temple got the results of their own activities, rather than all the temples having to bear a collective burden. The situation we now face is a perfect example of the risk that should have been avoided.

The Defendants

It will be particularly interesting to watch how the defendants go about organizing their defense. Knowing them personally, I expect to see them staking out very individualized defenses. I know very well that many of these men strongly dislike one another. Many have been outside the movement for years, and are going to defend their own personal positions, not ISKCON or Srila Prabhupada. They'll be saving themselves, and will not hesitate in pointing the finger at their so-called Godbrothers.

The legal fees for their defense are going to be astronomical. If they would surrender to a collective defense, one law firm could probably handle the case for them. But instead, most are likely to retain their own lawyers. How prominent the lawyers are will depend on how much money they have, and how vulnerable they are to being made responsible by the testimony of the others. This case will become a major expose of what has been going on behind the scenes of ISKCON. What has long been perceived by many to be a strong, cooperative movement will be exposed as a bunch of individuals fending for themselves.

Regardless of the outcome, we must keep in mind the historical reality. The Muslims went into Vrindaban and tore down the temples of the Goswamis. Krsna himself arranged the destruction of the Yadhu dynasty. To think that the ISKCON child abuse lawsuit is not Krsna's arrangement, but strictly Maya's attack, is completely erroneous in my mind. We cannot know for certain what will happen, we can only watch the future unfold.

We have posted a new section to the Hare Krsna website in response to this lawsuit -- http://www.harekrsna.com/lawsuit -- and welcome your contributions.
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SITES TO CHECK OUT:

Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
* http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg

* PRABHUPADANUGA'S:
* Oldham, UK (PSSHearing@prabhupada.freeserve.co.uk)
* New York City, phone: 212-674-0698 (pss52@hotmail.com)
* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* http://iskcontimeline.homepage.com Nandini's history site
* http://www.krishnabooks.org Krishna Books
* http://www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site

* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P. REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage) 
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters: 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 
* POISON TRANSCRIPT 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm 

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (GBC expose)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html  
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)  (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch

* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)