1) ABOUT THE POISON GIVERS (BD)
2) Dear King Puranjan: Whoa! (Bob)
3) FROM KULASHEKARA DASA

Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

[PADA is an online newsletter going out to over 1,000 devotees and Hindu's. Please let us know if you have comments, or if you are not interested. We try our best to keep our mailing list in order. Jai Srila Prabhupada!]

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ALSO the names of the GBC as well as accounts of their activities are sometimes unverified at this point, we are merely allowing readers to express their experiences, and we encourage others, including those named, to feedback. Comments / corrections on the history section are also encouraged...

1) ABOUT THE POISON GIVERS (BD)

Dear "Pada," Obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Bg.1.36 Translation: Sin will overcome us if we slay such aggressors. Therefore it is not proper for us to kill the sons of Dhrtarastra and our friends. What should we gain, O Krsna, husband of the goddess of fortune, and how could we be happy by killing our own kinsmen?

Purport: According to Vedic injuctions there are six kinds of aggressors:
1) A GIVER OF POISON,
2)one who sets fire to the house,
3)one who attacks with deadly weapons,
4)one who plunders riches,
5)one who occupies another's land, and
6)one who kidnaps a wife.
Such aggreessors are at once to be killed, and no sin is incurred by killing such aggressors. Such killing of aggressors is quite befitting for any ordinary man, but Arjuna was not an ordinary person. He was saintly by character, and therfore he wanted to deal with them in saintliness. This kind of saintliness, however, is not for a ksatriya.

Although a responsible man in the administration of a state is required to be saintly, he should not be cowardly. For example, Lord Rama was so saintly that people were anxious to live in His kingdom (Rama-rajya), but Lord Rama never showed any cowardice. Ravan was an aggressor against Rama because he kidnapped his wife, Sita, but Lord Rama gave him sufficient lessons, unparalleled in the history of the world. In Arjuna's case, however, one should consider the special type of aggressors, namely his own gradfather, own teacher, friends, sons, grandsons, etc. Because of them, Arjuna thought that he should not take the severe steps necessary against ordinary aggressors. Besides that, saintly persons are advised to forgive. Such injunctions for saintly persons are more important than any political emergency. Arjuna considered that rather than kill his own kinsmen for political reasons, it would be better to forgive them on grounds of religion and saintly behavior.

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2) Dear King Puranjan: Whoa!

BOB: There's no need to twist my words around; I did compliment you! I said, the demonic child-molester Iscon leaders were in the deepest modes of ignorance. And, that you single-handedly fought them, and probably defeated them.

[PADA: So, that is the whole problem isn't it? There was not a broader base of attackers, so we had very little control over how the attack would develop? If a few guys in a rubber life raft try to raise the Titanic in a wind storm, using a 20 lb. fishing line, well, don't blame them if there are some problems and the sunken ship does not come up so easily!]

BOB: However, what I pointed out was, this is only the mode of passion, and that you used too much force. You bombed and destroyed the temples in order to get rid of the demonic leaders. So, in the end, there will be just vacant lots, or Albertson's supermarkets. Unless you're naive enough to think these evil leaders will not steal all the assets before turning it over to the victimized children. (You put the guy from Detroit up to it.)

[PADA: If there are, as you say, "demons" who are leading the temples, and we have been saying get rid of many of these leaders for 20 years, and we did not get enough help, then whose fault is that? It is not ours. You are also saying that the temples are infested with, and controlled by: evil. So what is exactly your plan to fix that? And if other's plans are not working correctly, fine, it is a free country. Where then has your plan been to get rid of these evil people? And if getting rid of them is so easy, why haven't you even started to do it? First of all, you make it sound like (1) it is a piece of cake to get rid of them, and thus we overpowered them with an over zealous attack (because they are wimps?), then (2) you say beware, we are VERY naive if we do not know how entrenched, devious, malicious, cunning and just plain "evil" they are? Make up your mind here....]

BOB: Smarter than that, would be to deflect and hit, like Adri did.

[PADA: Adri has his hands full of troubles right now, and we all know what it is, troubles with a temple full of Jayapataka followers. He is currently under fire in the India media because of an alleged rape by one of those followers. So he deflected, fine, but it richocheted back into his own camp.....]

BOB: Simultaneously, do something overwhelming positive, like create big temples & put on grand Ratha Yatra parades!

[PADA: Ummmm, we are not God, we cannot do everything. We are acting in a particular circle of action and we are getting a few items cleared up, for example, that homosexual pedophiles are not God's successors. We do not want to go to any "festival" where the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophiles regime is being worshipped. And so we aim to change that, and we are changing that. And we are thus aiming to purify all of the future festivals so that these deviants are no longer viewed as God's successors. For example, most of the current Rathayatras and festivals are infested with people who think that the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophiles regime is bona fide. Especially true of Calcutta. That is not an actual festival, it is an insult to the real gurus.]

BOB: Smarter still, was the transcendental love level on Jayananda, and leave the ants fight over the crumbs. Your fan, Bob

[PADA: Well, if someone wants to fight for their guru's honor, that is not up to you to attack? And if Jayananda was still alive now, how do you know he would have not have been worse than pada could dream of? Also, you are also attacking us, so you should quit attacking and leave the fighting to the ants? You are wanting it both ways, we should not fight and criticize, but you should fight and criticize? You are contradicting yourself. Arjuna also fought in his circle of activity, and we worship that. This is called Bhagavad Gita.

Thanks for your well wishing though Bob]

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3) FROM KULASHEKARA DASA

Dear Puranjan Prabhu,

Please accept my obeisances. All Glories to Sri Guru and Gouranga!

As you know I am a big fan of your newsletter and the opportunity to 'reach' the devotees in our fragmented world. I happen to know that Mukunda das is a very sincere, honest and hard working devotee who has given his life to serving Srila Prabhupada with all of his heart and mind. I often hear of your comment of how 'we' were all alienated by the demons within IS_CON. Therefore I find it strange that following my letter begging for reconciliation, you seem it necessary to write equal length condemning Mukunda das. Give it up! Stop your venom - encourage devotees and offer guidance, not fault-finding.

[PADA: Mukunda dasa launched a severe attack on us including severe death theats. So this is not some minor "fault finding." This is the most severe of criminal, lawless, antinomianism activity, the same activity and mentality, we might add, that the GBC engages in. This is not a question of "my venom" either. We did not talk to him like that, rather he attacked us. Wholesale. Nor do we "threaten death" to any folks. So if we do not develop zero tolerance for such neanderthal thug actitivty, or it will go on as it has been going on. This is not how a society of devotees should treat one another, that is all we are saying. Nor should we allow or encourage such activity by acquiescing.

This is not how Srila Prabhupada trained us. Rather, this is the same Stalin, Mafia, gestapo, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, and in sum criminal GBC styled activity, and we are not going to encourage this. As you know, allowing death threats to circulate unchallenged can, and has, lead to deaths. This is not minor fault finding? You are trying to compare apples and oranges. This activity has to be squelched early on, or that will become the standard for our religion. We also followed your advice and offered sincere guidance to him on this issue and went to great lengths to explain things, but he went on and retaliated through his alliance with Sanat, with more death threats, because they think they have become Lord Yama, as does the GBC. Srila Prabhupada says the most sinister movement is within his movement. This is not an individual person, it is a mentality. And so, when we see this "piranha on the neck, biting the jugular behavior," we should no longer tolerate it, or it will continue and/or spread. We have seen enough of that, and so has the karmi public, and now it is time to outlaw this modus.

Thus, this is not what we should encourage. This is also illegal. Mukunda also alarmed and severely upset some of pada's female readers and some of them were crying and fearful. So Mukunda is also a cruel jackbooter to women just like the GBC is as well. We are not going to let people attack poor women any more? Why should we allow another jackbooter on women to thrive and grow? Have we learned nothing so far?]

KD: YOU ARE ALIENATING - not educating. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami writes: "Look within. Amend yourself, rather than pry into the frailties of others. When faults in others misguide and delude you - have patience, introspect, find faults in your self. Know that others cannot harm you unless you harm yourself. I wish that every selfless, tender-hearted person of the Gaudiya Math will be prepared to shed two hundred gallons of blood for the nourishment of the spiritual corpus of every individual of this world."

[PADA: Well we have looked within. Try to find any where that we have personally threatened to kill any Prabhupadanuga devotees? You can't. You are making things up. We do not have to look anywhere. We do not behave like that even with the GBC, or any other vaishnavas of other camps, or even the karmis. Period. We do not even behave that way with dogs. Tolerating death threats has lead to death, just look what happened to Sulochana. Everyone said this at the time in 1986, look "within," but we said no, look the f-ck "out," this is a dangerous mentality. And we were right. If we see a lady bug on our car window, we take it off before starting the car so that it will not get harmed. We are not of the psycho-cult killer mold, nor do we think this should be tolerated and thus encouraged.]

KD: So please encourage with love!

[PADA: Discouraging death threats is love. People who are on that path are going nowhere in a big hurry. Maybe Mukunda and co. will one day realize that.]

KD: In regards to Adri - your wrong! Just because you and I are firmly convinced that Srila Prabhupad was poisoned, does not mean that everyone has to believe or embrace this point of view wholeheartedly yet. It still has to be proven to the point of being able to be prosecuted in a court of law.

[PADA: We never said that it had to be a success in court. Just by attempting the case in court, the media word would get out that our guru Srila Prabhupada was victimized. This would save Srila Prabhupada from being linked to criminal GBC actions. People whom we have shown the evidence to are convinced easily.]

KD: At present, if this was filed with any court in the world, it would be thrown out due to lack of evidence. AND IT MAY NEVER - EVER - REACH THAT RESOLUTION. So are you going to criticize and alienate anyone who does not 'believe' as you?

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada said he is being given poison. This was verfied by forensic whipsers and so on. This is not a question of believing us? Also, how do you know it would be thrown out? Many murders are proven by circumstantial evidences? You are speculating. And besides, what will be the harm of trying? Or what about a wrongful death case? And since ISKCON is all over the world, we could try the wrongful death case over and over in different locales?]

KD: Therefore the poison theory exists only in the court of public opinion.

[PADA: Well, we do not accept that Srila Prabhupada's words are theory?]

KD: As a responsible leader within ISKCON, and one of the few left in the world who IS worshiping Srila Prabhupad exclusively, AND standing up to the GBC and Guru's in a Court of Law, Adri cannot embrace anything that is of the nature of an 'opinion'.

[PADA: Well maybe, and it is the opinion of the Indian public as of today that his harboring Jayapataka followers is a big mistake. There is currently a big news media expose on one of them and it looks very bad for the whole movement. Adri himself says that Jayapataka harbors molesters, and then Adri harbors that lot ....! This is trouble waiting to happen, and it has. As for exclusive worship of Srila Prabhupada, what? Adri has Jayapataka's crew there? You are not even informed properly? This Jayapataka follower in the news is also a person who likes Bhakti Caru, and so on. They are preaching GBC guru-ism there, not Prabhupadanuga-ness. You are misinformed.]

KD: After winning the court case and having these men removed, he may well be in a position to have the case opened by the Indian Government, which is what needs to happen.

[PADA: Except that Adri told me himself that such a case could drag on for 20 years or more in India? The Gaudiya Matha case also went on for more than 40 years, and might still be dragging on. Whereas the poison case being filed would take the media by storm in 20 minutes. Thousands of hindus would then demand the removal of these bogus leaders, and their followers would have to hide as well. Bingo, the mess would get cleared up threadbare and moreover Srila Prabhupada would be seen as a victim of the bad guys, not the leader of the bad guys?]

KD: Regarding running Calcutta ISKCON - and doing a good job of it, despite having to make the best use of some of the 'less-than-desirable' devotees there, I can only compliment him. Neither you or I are doing half of the service that Adri is accomplishing while we pontificate! Could self examination on your part reveal some envy due to his success?

[PADA: Well, he is doing a good job on some levels, true, but what is "service" to you may not be service to all of us. For example, Adri has a lot of Jayapataka clones about, and if we went there, their "service" would be to throw us into the river with rocks tied to us.]

KD: Stop the fault finding. It does not behoove you. Focus on the criminals who deserve it, not the devotees who are our friends. And I don't know about you, but I need all the Prabhupada supporter friends I can find in this cold and lonely Kali-Yuga world - including you - my friend! Your servant in His service,

Kulasekhara das.

[PADA: Thanks Kulashekhara dasa. We need friends too. And that is our whole point, death threats do not come from our friends, but from hateful people, i.e. GBC styled thinkers. We are going to have zero tolerance for this in our world, but you can do what you like.

ys pd]

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SITES TO CHECK OUT:

Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
* http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg

* PRABHUPADANUGA'S:
* Oldham, UK (PSSHearing@prabhupada.freeserve.co.uk)
* New York City, phone: 212-674-0698 (pss52@hotmail.com)
* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* http://iskcontimeline.homepage.com Nandini's history site
* http://www.krishnabooks.org Krishna Books
* http://www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site

* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P. REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage) 
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters: 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 
* POISON TRANSCRIPT 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm 

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (GBC expose)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html  
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)  (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch

* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)