1) Subject: Fwd: ISKCON leaders ignoring ISKCON laws
2) NEED FOR LAWSUITS From: "Mahesh Raja"
Subject: Mantra for the GBC: *LAWSUITS*
3) From: Urdhvaga
Subject: broken hearts
4) BSDasi's update

Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

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ALSO the names of the GBC as well as accounts of their activities are sometimes unverified at this point, we are merely allowing readers to express their experiences, and we encourage others, including those named, to feedback. Comments / corrections on the history section are also encouraged...

To: Topical Discussions
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:06 AM
Subject: Fwd: ISKCON leaders ignoring ISKCON laws

> These Russian devotees attempted to send the following message to TD, but
> as far as I can tell, it never made it.
> Ys, Madhusudani dasi
>
>
> >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:16 +0300
> >From: "CIS: (Bhakta) Igor Vovk (Nikolayev - Ua)"

> >Sender: Igor.Vovk@cis.pamho.net
> >To: "GBC Discussions"
> >Cc: "AC Bhaktivaibhava Swami" ,
> > "Bhakti Caitanya Swami" ,
> > "Bhakti-tirtha Swami" ,
> > "Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Swami"
> > ,
> > "Bhanu Swami (Madras - IN)" ,
> > "Bir Krishna das Goswami" ,
> > "Giriraja Swami" ,
> > "CIS: Gopal Krsna Goswami (GBC/BBT-Trustee)"
> > ,
> > "(Bhakti Brnga) Govinda Swami" ,
> > "Hridayananda Dasa Goswami"
,
> > "Indradyumna Swami" ,
> > "Jayapataka Swami (GBC)" ,
> > "Kavicandra Swami (GBC Japan)" ,
> > "Lokanatha Swami (SPC Minister)" ,
> > "Mukunda Swami" ,
> > "Niranjana Swami" ,
> > "Prahladananda Swami" ,
> > "Radhanatha Swami" ,
> > "Sivarama Swami" ,
> > "Sridhar Swami" ,
> > "Tamal Krishna Goswami" ,
> > "Umapati Swami" ,
> > "Vipramukhya Swami" ,
> > "Madhu Sevita (das) ACBSP (GBC) (I)"
> > ,
> > "Prithu (das) ACBSP" ,
> > "Rambhoru (dd) ACBSP" ,
> > "Ravindra Svarupa (das) ACBSP (Philad. - USA)"
> > ,
> > "Rohini Suta (das) ACBSP (GBC)" ,
> > "Sesa (das) ACBSP (GBC)" ,
> > "Dhyanakunda (dd) KKD (NE-BBT, Almvik - S)"
> > ,
> > "(GBC) Deputies" ,
> > "GBC Istagosthi" ,
> > "Premarnava (das) HKS (GBC Corr. Secretary) (NE-BBT)"
> > ,
> > "Saunaka Rsi (das) SDG (IC) (Ireland)"
> > ,
> > "Vaidyanatha (das) HKS (GBC) (Moscow - R)"
> > ,
> > "Varnasrama development" ,
> > topical.discussions@pamho.net, news@chakra.org
> >Subject: ISKCON leaders ignoring ISKCON laws
> >Lines: 108
> >X-Mailer: COM 3.72.0
> >X-Com-Textno: CIS237438
> >X-Com-Flags: LETTER
> >
> >[Text 237438 from CIS]
> >
> > Dear devotees,
> > please accept our humble obeisances.
> > All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
> >
> > We are practicing Krishna consciousness around ten years. During
> > these years we are facing with authoritarian management in our
> > community. Many times we tried to bring attention of the regional
> > secretary Acyuta Prabhu and GBC Niranjana Swami.
> >
> > In May 1998, we officially sent a complaint in according with ISKCON
> > laws to Niranjana Swami, that TP is violating ISKCON laws. The facts,
> > mentioned in the complaint were admitted by TP. After our persistant
> > appeals to Niranjana Swami, he issued an official censure to TP.
> >
> > After that almost nothing changed. We addressed several times to
> > Niranjana Swami with proposal to change the management structure
> > of the community, using the scheme described in ISKCON management
> > guidelines, but we didn't get an answer. (Later on Niranjana Swami
> > apologized for prolong silence.)
> >
> > We appealed also to ISKCON Minister of Justice Sesa Prabhu and other
> > leaders, informing them about ignoring ISKCON laws by leaders,
> > but we didn't get any answer.
> >
> > During the summer of 1999 we've sent our complaint to the COM conference
> > with request to devotees to help. We've got a reply from Sridhara Swami,
> > and he adviced to resend the complaint to GBC Chairman and pursue
> > an independent investigation.
> >
> > We asked Sridhara Swami to help us, and he forwarded our complaint
> > to the GBC.
> >
> > After that we've got answers from Sesa Prabhu and Niranjana Swami.
> > In November 1999 Niranjana Swami visited our city to inquire into
> > the complaint. In the time of Niranjina Swami's investigation
> > we - the plaintiff - appeared to be the defendant. Niranjana Swami
> > was promoting unproved accusation toward us. When we were explaining,
> > he was apologizing, but he continued to accuse us. "Innocent until
> > proved" was not used in the relation to us. So the investigation was
> > subjective, instead of objective.
> >
> > The facts, mentioned in the complaint about the leaders, ignoring
> > ISKCON laws were not investigated. Niranjana Swami said that changes
> > in the management can be made in future. Later on we several times
> > asked Niranjana Swami to give official written answer on our complaint,
> > which action are taken over the persons in complaint. Why now it is
> > impossible to change the management structure - is there any evidences
> > or facts? We didn't get an answer.
> >
> > (Later on NS's representive - Avadhuta Chandra das was critisizing
> > bh Igor that he manipulates devotees, but he had no evidences, and
> > he brought his apologies.)
> >
> > TP and temple council continued to accept decision in relation to
> > congregation without reference to ISKCON laws.
> >
> > In the same time, in relation to Mother Nirvikalpa, which several
> > years has an offensive behaviour to some devotees no action were
> > accepted. Things are getting worse, now Mother Nirvikalpa tried
> > to interfere with service of Deity department, and she smashed
> > Deities' paraphenalia on the floor.
> >
> > Niranjana Swami using the non-objective information, given by TP,
> > without objective investigation and facts and without even a warning
> > decided to fire congregational members, engaged in organization
> > of Sunday programs by his request.
> >
> > Recently an incident has occured. Bh Sergej approached bh Igor,
> > and said that he is banned from the temple and service.
> > Bh Igor said that TP didn't inform him, and propose to go to TP
> > and inquire. When they came to the temple, bh Igor wanted to ask
> > about official decision in accordance with ISKCON laws, accepted
> > to bh Sergej. Bh Igor was subjected to violence, when he tried
> > to stop the violence toward bh Sergej from bh Mandalibhadra das,
> > in the presence of bh Shanta das, who didn't do any attempts to
> > stop the conflict.
> >
> > Bh Igor again inquired bh Shanta about the official decision,
> > and he proposed him to leave the temple. Now we are tried to
> > resolve the conflict on the basis of ISKCON laws within the
> > margins of ISKCON, although the devotee wants to approach
> > a government service. We are trying to handle the situation, but
> > it can go beyond ISKCON, because the ISKCON leaders of different
> > level are continuing to ignore ISKCON laws, which causes the delinquent
> > irresponsibility.
> >
> > We have asked Minister of Justice to pursue an independent investigation.
> > He said that it's difficult to make, and proposed to ask GBC member
> > Vaidyanath Prabhu. He answered that he cannot do it.
> >
> > Therefore we are approaching GBC, all leaders and devotees of IKSCON
> > to help.
> >
> > This is our attempt to cooperate on the basis of mutual respect and
> > respect to ISKCON laws. We are asking to recover fired devotees back
> > to the Sunday Programs council, to pursue an independent
> > investigation, and accept appropriate action toward persons above
> > mentioned. We are proposing to implement in our community the principles
> > of conjoint managemnt, where TP is subordinate to Community Board,
> > and candidacy to Board members is approved by neutral side or independent
> > commision or election.
> >
> > Your servants,
> > bh Igor Vovk, bh Alexander Kolobov.
> >
> > P.S. We are ready to offer more detailed information, facts and evidences.
>

====================

2) NEED FOR LAWSUITS

From: "Mahesh Raja"
Subject: Mantra for the GBC: *LAWSUITS*

The ONLY mantra the GBC gundas CAN understand is *LAWSUITS*. All the other reasonings such as the clear instructions of July 9th 1977 letter for establishing a Ritvik system have failed. The gundas want to play God. (As good as God --Acarya). They want to be worshiped on equal level "spiritual" master. These bogus envious demoniac thugs have usurped Srila Prabhupada's Vyasasna, his temples, distorted his books, manipulatd devotees and raped his gurukuli institution. To these animals the stick is the ONLY answer.

KB 68 "It is true that if a man becomes too puffed up because of his family, opulence, beauty and material advancement, he no longer wants a peaceful life but becomes belligerent toward all others. IT IS USELESS TO GIVE SUCH A PERSON GOOD INSTRUCTION FOR GENTLE BEHAVIOR AND PEACEFUL LIFE, BUT ON THE CONTRARY, ONE SHOULD SEARCH OUT THE WAYS AND MEANS TO PUNISH HIM." Generally, due to material opulence a man becomes exactly like an animal. TO GIVE AN ANIMAL PEACEFUL INSTRUCTIONS IS USELESS, AND THE ONLY MEANS IS ARGUMENTUM BACULUM. IN OTHER WORDS, THE ONLY MEANS TO KEEP ANIMALS IN ORDER IS A STICK.

760422r3.mel Conversations Prabhupada: So in politics sometimes war is NECESSARY. You cannot avoid it when there is politics. THAT IS THE WHOLE HISTORY, AND POLITICS ARE NEVER SETTLED UP WITHOUT WAR. There is no history. WHEN YOU COME TO THE POLITICAL PLATFORM, WAR IS NECESSARY. IN LOGIC IT IS CALLED ARGUMENTUM VACULUM, THAT WHEN A MAN IS NOT ACCEPTING REASONING, THEN THERE MUST BE STICK. It is like that. When there are two parties--there is some disagreement--so one is not reasonable, then there must be stick. That is war. JUST LIKE ANIMAL. THE ANIMAL CANNOT UNDERSTAND REASONING, SO YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE STICK. THEN THE ANIMAL WILL AGREE.

[PADA: Good points Mahesh. Without a lawsuit the GBC just laughs at everyone.]

======================

Dear Mahavegavati dd

Hari Bol Spirit Soul, pamho, agt Srila Prabhupada! Thank you for your last
email. Sorry, I had been away and could not reply to it straight away.

>Sadly, after going through so much abuse and the
>aftermath of ITS GON, I am beginning to wonder about
>my heart. It USED to be very sweet, but I think it is
>now bitter-sour. I find myself praying to Srila
>Prabhupada to help me to turn that now bitter heart,
>into the heart it USED to be, but I often wonder if it
>will return to what it once was.
>Actually, Srila Prabhupada has said in a purport in
>the CC, (but I have NO idea where it was), that "the
>heart is like a clay pot, and once broken, it is very
>difficult to mend," (what to speak of so many times
>smashed).

Dearest Mahavegavatiji,

I feel very sorry for you that you had to go through all that Iskcon garbage and abuse. Please do not feel bad about your Person. You're more devotee than the most will ever be. For kalpas. Even if your heart had been hurt by so much abuse and the aftermath of ITS GON, it always will be a genuine devotee-heart, because you never gave up your faith in Srila Prabhupada, and that is the only thing which counts.

In the mean time we have to struggle and keep going on. You're doing the most proper thing now, exposing ITS GON crooks and helping others to relieve their pain. Srila Prabhupada himself suffered and complained that they had given poison to him. And he said: "My only request is that you do not torture me and put me to death" and they still caused his untimely death, so they can sit in his seat. So if Prabhupada has to endure all of this, than what to speak of us little souls. In the end, when we die, only the hearts genuine affection for Krishna counts and carries us to our next destination - no artificial externals or mental concoction will help.

I can completely understand your situation, because I have gone through similar pains and abuse by bogus ITS GON-Devotees. What holds truth to yourself applies to me as well. Just to show you that you are not alone, here is a short description of my own situation: I am a German devotee who joined the movement in 1970/71 in Berlin. In 1973, I went to Vrindaban to meet Srila Prabhupada there and later on I was personally initiated by him when he visited Germany. After my service in the Hare-Krishna Centres of Germany, I later on went abroad for 20 years or so, doing service in Vrindaban, Mayapur, Hyderabad, Bombay, Calcutta and many other Indian temples, also travelling all over India and Nepal. I also had been one of the drivers of the Hansadutta World Travelling Sankirtan Party, driving buses from Germany to India, and driving with them all over India up to Himachal Pradesh. I also preached in Sri Lanka, Philippines (6 Years), Singapore (3 years printing books), Malaysia (2 years or so), Hongkong, London, Ireland and different other temples etc. Actually you could say, I am a international devotee.

And as you can imagine I have seen and experienced quite a lot, and from 1977 onwards a lot of shit too, to say it plainly. In 1991 I visited Vrindaban where I was shot with a shotgun at the banks of the yamuna-river. If Iskcon has something to do with it, we can not say. Who knows? It looked like a daylight robbery of Indian crooks in which they stole my handbag, camera and money. After struggling with them (fife Indian gundas, who attacked me) I tried to get back my handbag, but I was shot point blank, from tree feet distance, by one of them. I was hit in the right side, arm and chest. After I fell to the ground bleeding all over, they just run away, and that was it.

I somehow managed to get up again and stumbled to the main road, bleeding all over, and got a scooter to drive me to the Mathura Hospital. I was hit with about 70 bullets in my right side, I mean little pellets from a self made Indian shotgun. Luckily I did not get anything in my stomach, otherwise I would be dead now. Back in Germany I got some operations, but still have 23 pellets left in my body. They could not be operated out, because they where to deep. So I am still running around with them now.

I had been banned, beaten, knifed, shot at and thrown out of different temples by force, and in the Phillipines a fanatic Hansadutta follower (Ripughna) tried to kill me with a big bush-knife for preaching against his so-called guru. Yes I am fighting these fanatics since 1977 right after Prabhupadas disappearance, which I also witnessed. So what remains now is some type of disappointment, resentment and bitter feelings too.

My personal bad experience with Isk cons bogus successor-gurus has similarly affected my soul. I USED to be a nice innocent devotee, like your good self, but going through that hell of mad guru-successor area, after Prabhupadas disappearance, that has somewhat changed me too. I also lost so many of what were good qualities, and I know already that I will not recover in this life. My heart was like a beautiful vase, smashed to the ground, the pieces put up again and glued together, and here I am again, broken and scars all over, trying to go on. I think there are many devotees with broken hearts, which turned from sweet to now bitter-sour and sarcastic like in my own case. Yes I also have witnessed how they broke the hearts of gurukul-children.

That is why I understand them. And some have committed suicide, because of broken hearts. So, we are still alive, and the Turley court case is Krishnas arrangement just for relieving the pain caused by all those Iskcon crooks, religious propagandist, disguised in the garb of so called devotees. That is also why I personally have requested Mr. Turley for a follow-up case, so that devotees like us can get some justice too.

Now I am staying alone by my self, here in Germany, working in a karmi Job just to support my self. Yes it is hard and sometimes I am lonely, but I thought this is better than to associate with German imbecile devotees worshipping Hurrycash. Here in Germany there is absolutely no one who agrees with me. German devotees are the worst ones in the whole world. I am very sorry, they all worship these Iskcon faggot gurus with their perverted philosophy that homosex-gurus are servants of Radharani in the disciplic succession of Prabhupada. What an offence, what perverts and idiots - I am so sorry- I do not want such association and decided to live by my own. I hate Germans, they are unbelievably stupid.

Even my so-called own German godbrothers still worship these fu**ing Iskcon asshole GBCs. So thats why I am alone. Of course, without proper association and working in a karmi job for paying the rent of my flat, my spiritual sadhana decreased accordingly. So I am not that devotee anymore that I used to be. Despite my present fallen condition, I still prefer that, than to associate with all those artificial German Iskcon Zombies, who sell out to their demon masters - no never ever, sorry - No more hypocrites, no more artificial devotees, no more artificial Isk con. I rather remain a fallen stray backyard dog, and remain truthful to my own self.

That I am still alive and half ways normal after all those years, and that I did not end up in the mental hospital is really Prabhupadas causeless mercy on me. I hope that the defendants in Mr. Turleys case will get some jail sentences and not just let off with some money fine.

Ys, Urdhvaga das

========================

4) BSDasi's update

Dear Pada and readers, Obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

We see that there some who are saying Srila Prabhupada opposed the Guadiya Math's lawsuit. Yes. Srila Prabhupada did oppose the Guadiya Math's lawsuit because the parties were fighting over the property of the spiritual-master. Prabhupada was interested in carrying out the desire and order of his Guru-maharaj and was not interested in the property. There is no comparison to the present situation.

So Prabhupada wanted his mission to be established as an authorized institution, so he invited investigation by authorities. He says this will separate him from other bogi-yogis. The material world is full of unfortunate criminal acts, agreed, lead by the USA. We have heard years of Bhagavatam class putting down the karmis. The point should be made that the karmis are not aware of Krsna and it is the devotees' duty to tell them, rather than using them to stroke our own false egos. We are elevated and have a lisence to criticize. No. Our Living Guru-Srila Prabhupada tells us the ONLY thing separting us from the karmis is 16 rounds of the Maha-mantra. Therefore, compassion is necessary to carry out the order teach 'whoever we meet wherever we go' about KC.

It takes time but eventually one begins to find hardships in devotional service as very great mercy of the Lord. Gradually the hardships become welcomed! There is no concern for just staying alive merely to eat and to sleep and to mate and to defend. In that case it is better to be dead. However, that does not refer to defending Guru-maharaj. Then it is necessary to defend the authorized spiritual-master; otherwise there is no meaning to the word "disciple." Then the word disciple becomes a mockery, only, and Prabhupada tells us he does not want such mockery. The only concern is to give others the causeless mercy that was delivered to ourselves. There is no question of ever being possible to repay the genuine spiritual-master of such a debt. Still, it is necessary to keep making the attempt. The only process for trying to repay him is to spread the Holy Name.

It is not a cheap sahajiya process. Very servere tests are involved. These tests are to help reveal to us the condition of our own hearts. Krsna already knows our hearts and so the tests are not for His benefit. It is for our benefit. Surrender comes as a result: or give-up. The choice is ours to make in free will. Without such free will, there is no question of love. But Krsna helps in all cases without fail, if we try.

The devotees are not meant to test each other, but to assit each other in a personal manner. If such assistance is not there-Krsna will not let us down. The devotee children have gone through unspeakable hardships in the name of Prabhupada's society. There is no question of healing process to start without first bringing the religious criminals forward. When the verdict is in, which will clear Srila Prabhupada of the accusations his men are making in order to clear themselves, then the storehouse of love God will again flood and inundate the world.

We are happy to see new bhaktas relishing special mercy. If we think back, each one of us had the same experience. It was causeless mercy to help us surrender. Can that be called Krsna's trick? Prabhupada says that even if Krsna cheats us; we are not cheated like ordinary tricks. After gaining some spiritual-strength the tests start. But we are able to take the medicine. The medicine does not come before the sweet taste of devotional service. We do not walk up to people and tell them they are headed to hell unless they give their lives to Krsna. Nobody wants to hear that and will not listen. Prabhupada says that he is 80% lenient and still we cannot even follow.

Children are not meant to be mistreated in any circumstance whatsoever. They are meant to be protected and nurtured. Most of the children do not blame Prabhupada. In our last posting, we expressed gratitude for the eyewitness who came forward to IDENTIFY the GBC who is propagating the accusations of Prabhupad; to direct the guilt away from himself-where it belongs. They have pulled the wool over the eyes of the ISKCON supporters for 20-years, now the court system is necessary to abolish such corruption. They were able to get-away with their heinous behavior for 20-years, since the supporters were acting out of respect for Prabhupada who trusted them. The leaders have no respect for Prabhupada, thus they used their positions for their own power and control, not for service or sadhana. The children were tortured. Srila Prabhupada was tortured. But the children are not supposed to be tortured in any way whatsoever. Neither is Prabhupada. Both cases can be brought forward in court. The children have no chance for healing unless the criminals have been given justice. Simultaneously, Srila Prabhupada will also be seen as Krsna's miracle to have achieved superhuman feats with lowlife leaders.

One last tip, if i may, to new bhaktas who feel apprehensive for getting involved with a corrupt religion. Srila Prabhupada says that Lord Nityananda picked-up the "most fallen" first. (Jagai and Madhai) So then the rest of society was easy. If devotees are able to understand this, then new bhaktas will be understood as more elevated then the ones who came before. They are our "prabhus." Training them in Prabhupada's footsteps is not like some kind of bootcamp, but a service of loving reciprocation. It is supposed to be an austerity, but only if it is seen as a botheration. Instead it is the most confidential service to link others to Krsna's devotee.

We received the "bootcamp," treatment, but we were prepared and survived; and have no doubt been given special mercy. But we are too dull to see it that way at this time. So we are living for the day we can realize that.

In service,BSD

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

* http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ new ISKCON reform page

Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
* http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg

* PRABHUPADANUGA'S:
* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* http://iskcontimeline.homepage.com Nandini's history site
* http://www.krishnabooks.org Krishna Books
* http://www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site

* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P. REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage) 
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters: 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 
* POISON TRANSCRIPT 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm 

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (GBC expose)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html  
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)  (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch

* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)