1) GBC restructuring?
2) FROM LINDA
3) BSD writes:

Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

[PADA is an online newsletter going out to over 1,000 devotees and Hindu's. Please let us know if you have comments, or if you are not interested. We try our best to keep our mailing list in order. Jai Srila Prabhupada!]

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----- Original Message -----
From: Srirama (das) ACBSP
To: Varnasrama development
Cc: German Free Forum ; Topical Discussions

Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 11:13 PM
Subject: GBC Restructure conference

Dear Devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Many of you are familiar with the discussions taking place on several pamho.net conferences regarding reform and restructure of ISKCON management. I was requested to create and moderate a dedicated conference for this topic by the participants of the Prabhupada Disciples conference. The new conference is titled GBC Restructure and is ready for your use. The email address is GBC.Restructure@pamho.net.

This conference is different from most pamho.net forums, in that it has a specific goal, rather than serving only as an area for discussion. The "Presentation of Conference" contains a detailed description of the purpose and function of the conference. ***If you don't read this carefully, you're not going to understand what is going on in the conference.***

Fifty-three texts from other conferences have been posted so those new to this topic can quickly get up to speed with the discussion. Those texts begin with 3452573 and end at 3460077. New texts begin at 3430331. You can re-read the Presentation of Conference at any time using the pamho.net command: review presentation gbc restructure. Please direct any questions or comments to me at the email address below:

Your servant, Sri Rama das
[srirama@pamho.net], or
[srirama@jps.net]

======================

2) FROM LINDA

Dear Jaladuta, please let Mukunda know that you would like to be taken off the list. He is handling that end of the newsletter. I know you think that my husband and Mukunda are too heavy. Please consider though that they are only repeating Srila Prabhupada's words.

[PADA: No, they are not. Srila Prabhupada never advised his disciples and followers to state in public, and indeed to the USA Federal courts system, lawyers in a federal case, and USA media etc., that we should chop up molested ex-gurukula children into pieces with a buzz saw and have those pieces eaten by dogs, as well as their lawyers and the Federal courts system --then desire to have these statements admitted as evidence in the public courts and printed in the "New York Times." Even Stepen King novels do not read this rough?

Rather, Srila Prabhupada favored giving a more tolerant, measured, and indeed temperate view to the media and government authorities. Srila Prabhupada also said that if the children are mistreated, they will go away and reject the religion. Sanat is saying: that if the children followed Srila Prabhupada's prediction, they should be killed? This is so stupid it is beyond comprehension?

You are saying that if Prabhupada is right, then the people whom he predicted would fail should be killed ---for failing? That means you do not give a damn about what he says. The proof of this is: that you are going for the symptoms, rather than the cause. You should be investigating: why they were mistreated? Many people wonder why you never even mention --the perps? Just the victims? Hmmmmmm? Perhaps that is because you supported those perps empire yourselves for ten years? And you were a teacher in that school and you de facto protected the perps? Or what?

In sum, you are making no sense apart from making it look like Srila Prabhupada endorses the murder of dissidents, and even murders of molested ex-children who complain that they were molested? Kirtanananda says we should murder dissidents and so does Sanat? Why can't you do anything different than the GBC's tactics? In the medieval Catholic Church, they also used to say exactly what Sanat says, that anyone who protests should be chopped up. And that is why this relgion has been rejected in the USA as well, it was too excessive. And in fact, that religion has rather become discredited due to these excessive behaviors, and that is what Sanat wants to do: discredit Prabhupada.]

LINDA: Also I think you may find the most recent newsletter with an open letter to Jagadish very interesting. It was writen by our friend Padmahara. Her view is that we who know it is wrong to defame Srila Prabhupada must speak out! where ever possible. So she did what she felt she could do - since she personally knows Jagadish and his son Nirmal.

[PADA: Good letter, and since she did not say that anyone who disagreed must chopped up with a buzz saw, it had some credibility.]

LINDA: My personal feeling is the same as Padmahara's. That we should all try to rectify this situation by taking time to educate ourselves and then others about the history of corruption in ISKCON VIA Sulocana's Guru Business, Prabhupada's letters and conversations books. Then explain as best we can to whom ever we can, that Prabhupada is a pure representative of God and is not to blame for the misdeeds of those who deliberately deveated from his instructions.

[PADA: Utter nonsense and falsity. Sanat wrote to us directly that he does not want us to forward ANY OF Srila Prabhupada's letters and conversations into this affair. He also said he does not want any of us Prabhupadanugas to enter any statements in this affair either. He thus says that he wants the GBC to be the exclusive spokesmen for this case, and that is de facto what he wrote to us. In sum, Sanat wants to let the GBC blame Srila Prabhupada without any restriction. You are directly contradicting what he wrote to pada, that we should NOT allow or consider Srila Prabhupada's letters in this case. Please do not start lying with us like the GBC, which shows Sanat following the GBC --again?]

LINDA: I dream of a time when there will be a grass roots outcry which can not be silenced becase those who know this truth will refuse to tolerate any defamatory statements against Srila Prabhupada with silence, but will speak openly to anyone they know, In any forum they can find In defence of our beloved spiritual master. (I had hoped that those who consider themselves Srila Prabhupada's followers would write letters to the editor of any newspapers which published defamatory statements, explaining that Prabhupada was not at fault and asking them to do some investigative journalism to find this out themselves or else face law suits.

[PADA: No, you have no plan for grass roots, rather wrote death threats to the New York Times, making yourselves look like total crank cases. They could have sued you, but they did not, mainly because they consider you cranky nuts cases. You did not provide them with any intelligent and cogent reasoned argument using the letters, you just added them to the list of people who should be chopped up with a buzz saw. Thus, they probably will not even reply to you. "Chopping up molested children with a buzz saw" is simply not a grass roots idea, and indeed no one one but a few weird perverts who hate children will even consider following your ideas. You do not want any grass roots, you just want a few isolated cranks like yourselves, and not many are joining your camp?]

LINDA: Holding demonstrations in front of news paper offices to make the point. (my husbamd did this two years ago in Ithaca and recieved very favorable press after the first wave of defamatory articles about child molestation came out.)

[PADA: So, a public demonstration may or may not have impact, but that is not what you are doing? Why did you not go to New York and make a public demonstration and instead you made public death threats to kill the gurukulis, Burke Rochford, the New York Times and other people including pada? The New York Times writers probably had a good laugh at that, and now, end of story. You are cranks. Making threats to them is not credible and they will moreover ignore you, or maybe call the police to have you removed from their property with your use of these tactics. Or worse, they may print your ideas of chopping up them and these molested children with a buzz saw later on on the front page. That means you are trying to discredit this movement and ruin its reputation fully. And you are not doing the thing you say is effective? That means you are the lazy ass arm-chair fools you say everyone else is, by your own standards?]

LINDA: Another thing which could be done is to hold demonstrations in front of the Indian Embacy asking for investigation into Srila Prabhupada's poisoning.

[PADA: So why don't you go to New York and do that? Sanat already has contacts in the Indian community as he told me. So instead of threatening to kill everyone, which makes no progress, go to New York and get some Hindus involved? Why are you not doing what you say should be done? What are you waiting for? You have known this for three years, and you have said you want to get the Hindus involved, so what is the hold up? And you are blaming us? We are not restricting you? Go do what you say you want to see done, and quit griping about others when the real problem is your own lethargy, complacency and apathy, at least by your own account?]

LINDA: Such an idea would work better if we had thousands of signatures on petitions to the Indian Prime Minister.

[PADA: OK, so go and get some signatures. Are we tying you up and stopping you? Get out of your WW III bunker and do it?]

LINDA: Or another Idea how about trying to find a lawyer who would file a defamation suit against those who lumped Srila Prabupada in with corrupt and mudane criminals who ploted to usurp his institution and then blame him when all goes wrong!

[PADA: So, Sanat spent all kinds of money on Y2K, and a property, and not a lawyer? If he is not going to follow through on his own ideas, and blame others for his own deviations from his own plans, what is the point? He says "everybody go to New York city," and then he hides in a fox-hole in the middle of no freaking where? He say hire a lawyer, then he spends thousands of dollars elsewhere?]

LINDA: So these are some ideas which my husband has been trying for years to get Pada and others to endorse and gain support for.

[PADA: Nonsense. Sanat was telling everyone just a few months ago that they have to get into a bunker and prepare for Y2K, if not WW III, and that the government was going to take us off the highway to conventration camps, and we all have to get in the bunkers and wait for the button to be pushed, and he was saying that until the first of this year? He has been trying to get everyone into a bunker, and rather, we were the ones telling Sanat that we need to do things legally and not get into a bunker? And thus he has spent almost zero time pursuing the poison issue and so on?]

LINDA: There has been only silence.

[PADA: No, we did not join him in his silent hiding in a foxhole program of only a few months ago, indeed his hiding in a WW III bunker, but we kept up our newsletters? What silence are you talking about? We have been putting out our newsletters since 1990, no one could agree that this is silence? And when Sanat said he wanted us to go to New York and jump in his foxhole and be silent, we told him we cannot, we are too busy writing? So he has been too busy in the bunkers waiting for the sky to fall? He is giving everyone else orders, but is not doing what he says is his own job?]

LINDA: I believe it was yourself who suggested that rather than cutting out the tongues of blasphemers or commiting suiced we should at least speak out.

[PADA: This is the message you want to send to THE COURTs AND MEDIAs in the middle of a criminal, molester, murderer, suicide, violent pedophile cult image that WE HAVE ALREADY for the past 20 years? Look at Calcutta, another rape allegation ending in a suicide, there is already a media problem, and now thanks to you, people will read that Sanat and Linda want to solve all of this crisis by cutting out their newspaper editor's tongues in the midst of this, really impressive, that.]

LINDA: So would you be interested in trying to convince anyone you know that these would be good ideas? And more importantly that they would be good ideas TO ACT ON? I am interested in trying to find others who will join in these activities. I hope that these ideas agree with you favorably. yours sincerely, Linda

P.S Meeting with constant APATHY is enough to drive one to the kind of speach which my husband uses.

[PADA: And that is why no one wants to join Sanat's death threats cult, since we have already had that for the past 20 years. This tactic has worn out its welcome. Even if religious justices committees were once valid, it has been over-used by folks like the Gaudiya Matha, the GBC, the Catholic Church, the Serbian Christians, Jim Jones, and umpteen other violent cults. It is no longer a way and means of convincing the public and instead they will be TUNRED OFF and think that the whole thing is crack pots trying to re-introduce the Salem Witch Hunts days? And that is why we got at least 50 complaints that Sanat is a violent cult crank and he even got some of our female readers to cry, since apart from all else, he is vicious towards women. This is not grass roots, vicious to molested children and women, this is WORSE than GBC part two.

Thanks pd]

=======================

3) BSD writes:

Introduction to "Bhagavad-gita As It Is," by HDG Srila Prabhupada

Vedic knowledge is not a question of research. Our research work is imperfect because we are researching things with imperfect senses. We have to accept perfect knowledge which comes down, as is stated in "BHAGAVAD-GITA," by the parampara disciplic succession. We have to receive knowledge from the proper source in disciplic succession beginning with the supreme spiritual master, the Lord Himself, and handed down to a succession of spiritual masters.

Arjuna, the student who took lessons from Lord Sri Krsna, accepts everything that He says without contradicting Him. One is not allowed to accept one portion of "BHAGAVAD-GITA" and not another. No. We must accept "BHAGAVAD-GITA" without interpretation, without deletion and without our own whimsical participation in the matter. The GITA should be taken as the most perfect presentation of Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge is received from transcendental sources, and the first words were spoken by the Lord Himself.

The words spoken by the Lord are different from the words spoken by a person of the mundane world, who is infected with four defects. A mundaner 1) is sure to commit mistakes, 2) is invariably illusioned, 3) has the tendency to cheat others and 4) is limited by imperfect senses. With these four imperfections, one cannot deliver perfect imformation of all-pervading knowledge.

From this excerpt by Srila Prabhupada, we can understand that a conditioned soul will make mistakes. One of the famous lines by the GBC is that "we made a mistake," thanks to His Holiness SDG! Of course, that is like admitting that they are not spiritual masters in the disciplic succession from Sri Krsna. It worked for some time with their so-called followers, but will not stand in a court of law. Today, they want to say that the ISKCON crimes are "Prabhupada's fault." Neither will that stand-up in court. Srila Prabhupada says that he created 'big positions for big false egos.'

Because of false ego (material conception of life), some devotees wanted power and control, so they got what they wanted. Only they misused it for material desires of profit, fame, adoration and distinction. That does not make Prabhupada guilty of the crimes committed by them and their followers. He did not commit the crimes and is not guilty of such crimes. Even though in a court of law, ignorance is no excuse; the followers will be allowed to carry-on in their social situations-being favored by compassionate witnesses.

We are glad that neither is the attorney interested in accusing Srila Prabhupada for committing the ISKCON crimes. He is representing his clients, but is really interested only in convicting the actual parties who are responsible. The GBC never listened to what Prabhupada wanted them to do; that is how all of these crimes were committed. Now; they say Prabhupada wanted them to abuse women and children, kill and cheat for money, etc. Srila Prabhupada gave the members of the ISKCON-GBC what they wanted: power and control, to assist him in his mission. He engaged them to be like watchdogs to see that temples-devotees were maintaining his standards. But instead, they simply created headaches for him with fighting for their recognition and money. So then Prabhpada told everyone to "just go out on sankirtan!"

We are glad that our life's work has been fulfilled. That work is to invoke the Lord's mercy stopping the Prabhupada-poisoners and their supporters. We have had zero support, help and/or appreciation. Srila Prabhupada says that this is considered the highest mercy! When will that day be mine to be able to feel like a devotee who can understand this?!

In service, BSD

===========================

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

* http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ new ISKCON reform page

Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
* http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg

* PRABHUPADANUGA'S:
* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* http://iskcontimeline.homepage.com Nandini's history site
* http://www.krishnabooks.org Krishna Books
* http://www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site

* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P. REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage) 
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters: 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 
* POISON TRANSCRIPT 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm 

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (GBC expose)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html  
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)  (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch

* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)