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SRI KRISHNA JANMASTMI KI JAI!
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1) RE: PISHIMA REPORT and DESTINY
2) PURU DASA WRITES
3) WHAT IS MUKUNDA/ SANAT'S REAL COMPLAINT?

Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

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ALSO the names of the GBC as well as accounts of their activities are sometimes unverified at this point, we are merely allowing readers to express their experiences, and we encourage others, including those named, to feedback. Comments / corrections on the history section are also encouraged...

All morning i've been reading iskcon emailings between devotees debating
the issues and this is the first sane sentence i've found. Thanks,
Puranjana. -n

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1) RE: PISHIMA REPORT and DESTINY

PADA does not officially agree that the whole ISKCON society was entirely "destined," all along, to have its children molested --and to then go under financially-- due to a lawsuit from the molestation. At any point in time, all along, even a small group of devotees could have --changed destiny-- by working combinedly, and they could have beaten back the GBC with things like public protests and picketing of temples etc. Indeed, even a group of maybe four or five of the parents of molested children could have sued the GBC many years ago and really exposed them and essentially shut them, and their malefic schools, down. Perhaps this would have been effective if even two or three parents had made a joint combined case, because it would have shown a pattern --which could have been investigated earlier on, and which would have focused attention on the problems to all.

Even later, when considerable damage was still being done to Srila Prabhupada's children, persons like Sanat and his wife could have made public propaganda many years ago about how they KNEW that all of the children in their school had been molested, since they were the eye-witnesses, participants and involved parties. They could have filed a report with the government authorities and made a major dent in the GBC a long time ago by pressing criminal charges. They also would have immediately been joined and helped by us, Sulochana and others, since we were always on the look out for such endeavors. Our problem, at least in the molestation area, was that we could not get testimony from the molested or the other people who knew about it.

In sum our biggest problem all along was that people would not come forward to testify, and still today many folks are not coming forward with a detailed explaination of what realy happened under their watch. In sum, there is still a lot of cover up going on. Amazingly, those who have been identified as homosexual pedophiles posing as gurus, like Kirtanananda, are still being boosted up by the Narayana Maharaja camp (?) of Puru, who says that we cannot criticize (homosexual pedophile "gurus" like) Kirtanananda, even today, since this is part and parcel of GURU TATTVA! (see Puru still defending the homosexual pedophile guru lineage as guru tattva below).

And so some devotees seemed to never have had the interest, motivation, or desire to fight, while others like Puru were supporting or at least compromised with the bogus gurus. And many were seemingly unaware of the depth of the problem, and thus many rebuffed our efforts to make these criminal charges and make these changes. Yet, we are still convinced that a few people could have turned "destiny" around. For example, even ten people distributing leaflets at the Los Angeles airport could have essentially created chaos for the GBC program in California many years ago, even 1980, since that was their main "preaching" and source of revenue, and the protestors would have got immediate media attention as well. It also would have been almost impossible for the GBC bone heads to have assualted those protesting devotees at the airport since the place is loaded with private and regular police. Yet most people kept saying to us that they "did not want to interfere with the preaching." OK, but "preaching" -- what? That Ramesvara is identical in quality to God? Ummm hmmmm.

The same ten people could have travelled all over the USA in a couple of old vans and publicly protested with considerable impact with very little overhead costs. And if they were a little more organized, and had some funding, again from even one wealthy backer, they could have sued the GBC for fraud some years ago without waiting for these fraud charges to be a component of the Turley case. And thus, it is our opinion that "the destiny of ISKCON" was left in the hands, ultimately, of all of the followers, and they could have turned the history on its head, even a small group, had then been involved and/or motivated to do so.

It is the same thing as the Christians. Their Church became so corrupt until finally merely one of them, namely Martin Luther, protested. And he officially broke away from the corrupt core. Later, as a result of this one man's expose, a full-fledged break-away group formed, and thus the main core had to reform itself later on in many ways as well, and contain their inquisition mentality. To sum, we do not think that the children were "destined" to be sacrificial lambs since this could have been countered by a few of the GBC, even a couple of them could have waged a war against the core, and/or along with some of the other adults. For sure, ten of them could have created a firestorm to halt the injustices starting a long time ago, and this would have saved a lot of victims. And all of our acharyas are known for: protesting corruption at the core of false religions, thus the principle is known to all of us.

So "destiny" has also been in the hands of all of the collective devotees all along. Thus there is a saying, "bad people flourish when good people look the other way and they do not protest." A simple example of this is: if one sees a store being robbed --one can-- "alter destiny" by calling the police and getting the crooks caught. And if one --does not-- call the police, one has again "altered destiny" in another direction, now the crooks will get away and victimize another store. We are thus always surprised at the vast number of people who told us all along, "There is nothing to worry about, Krishna will fix it."

No. Incorrect. If one steps on a piece of dog stool, and it is stuck to the bottom of one's shoe, one cannot say, "Why should I fix it? That is Krishna's job"? No. One has to "alter destiny" and clean up that dog stool himself. "Waiting for Krishna" to perform our dirty work tasks and serve to us is actually diametrically opposed to the whole idea of devotional service. Of course, if one is part of the Narayana Maharaja/ Puru camp, one is still straggling along defending the pedophile nests and webs builders as "gurus" like Kirtanananada (see article below) because folks like that want to maintain the bogus status quo of false gurus? This seems to prove that they did not really want to fully clean this up, instead they wanted to defy Krishna and support bogus gurus all along? And they STILL support homosexual pedophiles as gurus?

They did not want to fix the problem of the cult enforced ritualistc worship of homosexual pedophiles, they wanted to defend it --and they continue to do so-- even today. So we are trying to mop up the dog stools, and they are walking behind us throwing more dog stools on the temple floor. Finally, if the "difficult" court case was "inevitable and destined," it is because the "easier" court case was not filed 20 years ago, and thus destiny was moved to this point. Just like, if one does not clean the dogs stools off one's shoes, it is destined, it is in the stars, it is inevitible, one will smell like dog manure one's self. And after some time, if one fails to fix this "early on," then later, everywhere one walks with those shoes will smell the same way.

As for the other problems we have had, for example with Adri trying to undermine us and shoot at the poison evidence, and others like Sanat Mukunda trying to undermine us, and also shoot at the poison evidence book as well, that seems to make it appear that the "devotees" are going to simply shoot at the other "devotees." Thus, it may appear that nothing concrete will happen? And that may leave some other folks with the view that (a) since the GBC's "opponents" are infighting, the opponents cannot effectively bring down the GBC, or even get basic justice? The upshot is that the GBC gets away with their molestation empire since the rest of "the devotees" are infighting? And so (b) some folks will conclude that since no one will help them, they must get their own lawyer and take their own actions?

In other words, folks like the attackers of the reform effort have caused this lawsuit to be "inevitable" as well. By shooting the cohesive reform effort in the foot, they have assisted the idea of an independent legal action of other independent complaintants. Of course, when that occurs the same reformers who are shooting at each other will then take the same types of pot shots at the independent lawsuit, because that is all they can do, take wild and ineffective pot shots. And so, these folks also caused the lawsuit to happen as an inevitable action as well, just like the Gaudiya Matha's infighters could not counteract their GBC's lawsuits and takeovers there, due to their massive independent infighting schisms. History do repeat! It do! It do! So, good thing we know what to expect from Srila Prabhupada's own recounting of these mentalities.

Thanks pd

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2) PURU DASA WRITES:

I can only observe that the devotees in Kirtananda's ashram in NYC are polite, curteous and do not commit Vaisnava aparadha. Their affection for my god brother is their business. I don't discuss it with them, as I generally avoid discussing guru tattva with the disciples of other god brothers who think they can serve as guru.

[PADA: This is the problem with some GBC and the Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, Gaudiya Matha camps. For starters, (1) they think that homosexual pedophiles are "serving as gurus" (Krishna's successors no less). And apparently, the Gaudiya Matha has been using Kirtanananda's place as their staging ground in New York City, so no wonder they do not protest his "guru-ship," and instead they boost it up as evidenced by Puru's statements!

Then, (2) Such (homosexual pedophile) gurus and their followers "are polite, courteous and do not commit Vaishnava aparadha." What? Homosexual pedophiles posing as gurus are not making aparadhas? They are making the worst aparadhas!

And (3) Puru further says that discussing Kirtanananda's sex with boys in his motorhome is "guru tattva"? It is? In sum, Puru says that people who are having sex with minor aged boys (their "guru" kula students no less) in their motorhomes -- "are gurus," "have disciples," are the subject of "guru tattva," and they are not making offenses? What! Homosexual pedophiles posing as God's successors are the worst blasphemers on the planet, as are those who support these vicious empires. And Puru claims this homosexual pedophile K swami is still a guru, and Puru claims to be a follower of Narayana Maharaja? What?

ys pd]

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3) WHAT IS MUKUNDA/ SANAT'S REAL COMPLAINT?

1) He says that the children of ISKCON were hijacked in late 1977 into GBC (and SDG's) hands.

2) He says he is one of those hijackers because that is exactly when Sanat joined, and he accepted SDG as his guru.

3) He says his wife ran a school for the hijackers where the GBC were being worshipped as gurus. And his wife did not want to expose the molestation --to protect SDG and company?

4) She says, and Sanat admits, that all of the children in their school were molested, while apparently Sanat not only sat back and did nothing, he was actively supporting SDG, Ravindra and the GBC and the molester-con enterprise.

5) Sanat agrees that this molestation is the fault of the GBC's hijacker party, of which he has been a dedicated servant, and not Srila Prabhupada.

6) Since he admits he is one of those hijackers, the current molestation case is fully the fault of his party, i.e. him and his guru SDG, and not Srila Prabhupada.

7) Now we all agree these children have been screwed up terribly and they have developed a rejection of their religion, and Srila Prabhupada predicted they would reject if treated the way Sanat's party treated them. In sum, Srila Prabhupada said that people who behaved like Sanat would cause the children to reject the religion, as indeed has occured.

8) Yet Sanat now says that the people who reject the relgion (his victims) should be killed or commit suicide --for rejecting the religion? Nevermind that they are the victims of his party's hijacking, which caused them to reject the religion in the first place? Oddly, he has not attacked the hijackers party with the same vigor (i.e. himself), or at all, in some of his writings?

9) The GBC was, all along, trying to harass and threaten those of us exposing this (such as pada) and they also harassed the molested children. Indeed, harassing pada was SDG's speciality and now his (ex?) follwer Sanat has taken that up as well. A coincidence?

10) Sanat has now undertaken the identical SDG/GBC program: to harass and threaten those of us who exposed this molester pooja all along, and he is also harassing and threatening the children, meaning he is still following exactly in the GBC mold that they followed all along? No change in policy whatsoever? A coincidence?

11) Sanat lumps in all of the ex-gurukulis as "ruru" demons, nevermind that some of them worship Srila Prabhupada and they are sincere. And he seems to inidiscriminately want to kill them all as well, and some of them have complained to us that he has no discrimination in this regard? And why is he wanting to kill even those ex-children who are sincerely trying to make good changes in ISKCON and worship Srila Prabhupada? Is this not what the GBC does, paint all of their opponents with the same brush, and lack discrimination? A coincidence?

12) Sanat and his wife have not yet publicly apologized for their role in supporting this molestation regime, nevermind that many GBC leaders have done so. In sum, Sanat and his wife are among the last unrepentant holdouts on the planet, almost like SDG? A coincidence?

13) Sanat says that the way to fix "Srila Prabhupada being impugned" in this case is to show the mass of public in the New York Times that Srila Prabhupada would solve all of this by chopping up the molested children with a buzz saw and feeding their body pieces to dogs? In sum, he wants to impugn Srila Prabhupada in even worse ways than the molestation case, and make KC out to be mass murderer consciousness, and he wants that to be done in public, and in the media? And that is what SDG did, make Srila Prabhupada look like he endorsed harassing if not killing dissidents. A coincidence?

14) Sanat says that the GBC's bogus leaders should be punished and go to jail, yet when that occurs, he goes forward to defend those bogus leaders and harass the lawyers who are trying to place these leaders in jail, simultaneously, he has no plan to put them in jail himself? Thus, he is de facto, if not directly, trying to defend the GBC from prosecution? Like SDG. A coincidence?

15) Simultaneously, Sanat says that we should not refer to the existing poison documents circulated by pada, like SDG says. A coincidence? Yet he has no counter literature, like SDG? And so it seems he ALSO de facto wants to save the GBC from the poison charges as well, like SDG?, by discrediting if not tossing out the main evidences now under consideration? A coincidence?

16) Simultaneously, Sanat says that a document should be produced showing Srila Prabhupada's thoughts on the gurukulas, yet as soon as we said we would work on that, he said that such evidences should not be discussed and forwarded in this case? In sum, he wants to also chop off Srila Prabhupada's words --again, just like SDG halted the same identical letters? A coincidence?

Is this all correct or not?
Thanks pd

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SITES TO CHECK OUT:

* http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ new ISKCON reform page

Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
* http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg

* PRABHUPADANUGA'S:
* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* http://iskcontimeline.homepage.com Nandini's history site
* http://www.krishnabooks.org Krishna Books
* http://www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site

* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P. REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage) 
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters: 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 
* POISON TRANSCRIPT 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm 

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (GBC expose)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html  
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)  (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch

* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)