1) WE ARE CULPABLE:
"So it is we, not He who are culpable for the Abuse" NNV
2) DD writes

Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.

[PADA is an online newsletter going out to over 1,000 devotees and Hindu's. Please let us know if you have comments, or if you are not interested. We try our best to keep our mailing list in order. Jai Srila Prabhupada!]

Please let us know if you wish to add other addresses or cancel your subscription. PADA also may or may not endorse all of the statements found in our featured letters.

ALSO the names of the GBC as well as accounts of their activities are sometimes unverified at this point, we are merely allowing readers to express their experiences, and we encourage others, including those named, to feedback. Comments / corrections on the history section are also encouraged...

Tamala: "Shut up Srila Prabhupada" (very clearly)

[by Vaishnava dasa]

=======================

1) WE ARE CULPABLE: "So it is we, not He who are culpable for the Abuse" NNV

Dear Prabhu:

PAMHO, AGTSP!

Perhaps you recall my urgent communications about a year ago warning that the Turley Lawsuit is not about truth and justice, but an attempt to destroy the Mission of Lord Chaitanya, mismanaged as it is by certain demons who are within the political control of all of us. A few facts that exonerate Srila Prabhupada:

[PADA: We have said the situation is urgent for the past 20 years, and we were laughed at and called "chicken little who thinks the sky is falling." Well, apparently it is falling. Nor is this a "new urgent problem," rather Srila Prabhupada and Krishna consciousness have been impugned all over the public media for such things as: appointing machine gun swamis, if not homosexuals, if not murderers as "guru successors" and so on, for the past 20 years. And little effective action was ever undertaken to counter --and what to speak of actually fix-- these grievous cancerous tumor issues other than a few cosmetic "reform" band aids.

And we might just as well forget about any serious efforts to "fix" the child abuse and molestation issues, and/or to rectify them, and what to speak of giving justice to the thousands of other similar grevious claims of injustice against the core GBC. We have to face it: these issues have never been dealt with properly but have rather been systematically swept under the carpet. Hence, these numerous unresolved GBC abuse issues are always brewing up on their own --and creating a stink-- just like sweeping old manure under the carpet does not fix anything, rather the stink gets worse. As for the idea of exonerating Srila Prabhupada, that is also a good idea but it has to be done on a broad scale with many participants and lots of cooperation, and that has not occured either. As Srila Prabhupada says, one stick here and there will break, but if the sticks are combined, they have strength and cannot be broken. So that is the main problem, there has been no strong or organized counterpoint.]

1. In 1970, He wrote a letter to the devotees clearly stating that, "Due to certain discourtesies that have been extended to me, I am withdrawing from the management of Iskcon and retiring to write My books."

[PADA: Good point: it was well known all along that Srila Prabhupada was not having great success "being in control of the GBC," rather they had a tendency to be renegades.]

2. In the same year, he created the BBT Trust that specifically forbids Iskcon to have any management control over it. This indicates that He had little trust in the leaders of Iskcon.

3. He created the DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT, which was signed, witnessed and notarized. This document created the GBC, and gave the EXACT DIRECTION AS TO HOW THE GBC SHOULD ACT .....Importanly, the GBC was to be ELECTED FROM THE BODY OF TEMPLE PRESIDENTS. The Temple presidents were instructed to hold elections every three years, and either re-elect existing GBC members, or elect new ones from a ballot of candidates chosen from the body of Temple Presidents.

[PADA: Another good point. That means there was always a legal basis to dismantle the bogus guru system all along. As Naranarayana das points out herein, the current GBC guru system is illegal because it has jumped over the legal mandates for ISKCON. Good, except how to enforce that now? You'd need a lawyer, and to date, no one has challenged them on this point legally...]

4. In that year, he also wrote several letters stating that the temple presidents were to be elected by vote by the congregations of the individual temples, and that the GBC would have practically no AUTHORITY over the individual temples.

CONCLUSION:

1. The GBC is a "soft" elected post with no ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY as claimed by Tamal Krishna in 1976. The Spiritual Authority is provided by the ACHARYA and is directly received by disciple. The temple management and GBC management is for PRACTICAL MATERIAL MANAGEMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH THE "ECCLESIASTIC AUTHORITY OF THE BODY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, WHICH FALSLY CLAIMS TO HAVE SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY FROM GOD THAT IS THEN PASSED DOWN IN DESCENDING LAYERS OF AUTHORITY TO THE POPE, CARDINALS, MONSEGNIORS ETC." That we have imitated the spiritual heresy of the Catholic Church has produced disasterous results in Iskcon.

[PADA: And they also imitated the Gaudiya Matha and more importantly, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Joe Stalin and the Mafia.]

2. It would have been almost impossible for the molestations of the children in the Gurukulas to have taken place if Srila Prabhupada's DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT had been followed. Consider the GBC to be an ELECTED PUBLIC SERVANT, and then it is possible to understand that NO PARENT WHO ELECTED A TEMPLE PRESIDENT PUBLIC SERVANT WHO THEN ELECTED GBC PUBLIC SERVANTS WOULD HAVE TOLERATED MOLESTATION IN THE GURUKULAS. Because the GBC assumed dictatorial powers NOT PROVIDED in the DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT, they were in a position to "cover up" crimes committed by each other, and to terrorize the temple presidents by threatening to "kick them out" for insubordination. Since they were not authorized to do either of the above, we can see that their pattern of abuse followed the typial pattern of abuse in "rogue states" and other dictatorships and oligarchies that ARE NOT ANSWERABLE TO THE PUBLIC.

[PADA: Yep, they are not accountable.]

3. The only thing that can be said in our (congegational member's) favor is that the GBC VERY CAREFULLY HID THE TEXT OF THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT UNTIL THE 1990'S. (Over twenty years!) So that NO CONGREGATIONAL MEMBER OF ISKCON REALIZED TO WHAT DEGREE THEY WERE (AND SITLL ARE) BEING RIPPED OFF!

4. We continued our "self created" myth that Srila Prabhupada was some sort of fantasy combination of the "Second coming of Christ" and "Santa Claus" ...We gave little thought then (and today) to the SOBER EVANGELICAL TASK TO WHICH HE WAS COMMITTED. We printed and distributed His books, while dreaming that He was our "ULTIMATE FASNTASY PROVIDER" "TEDDY BEAR FATHER" "ULTIMATE ORDER SUPPLIER". For that important reason, WE BECAME "SHUFFLED OUT OF THE MIX" and became IRRELEVANT to the future of the Vaishnava Sampradaya.

5. READING and IMPLEMENTING Srila Prabhupada's VANI; the vast compilations of instrucitons meant to guide the human race for the NEXT TEN THOUSAND YEARS may restore some of our sanity. If we do not, WE WILL BE THE ONLY LOSERS. The Iskcon Movement ON THE STRENGTH OF THE BOOKS ALONE will go on. That we as individual "disciples" ARE NO LONGER RELEVENT to the Vaishnava Sampradaya, will not cause anyone to lose sleep two thousand years from now. Perhaps we could go so far as to say that; "As long as we remain alive the Iskcon Movement is not likely to go on in any great degree."

[PADA: Ummm, you sort of lost us here?]

6. AND THE ABUSED KIDS? History will most likely remember us as having been so stupid as to have followed and "worshiped" persons like Tamal while REFUSING TO IMPLEMENT THE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM OF REPRESENTATIONAL MANAGEMTN that would have saved them!

[PADA: Agreed!]

Now, the Turley case indicates that we are willing to BURN THE SHIP TO ASHES in order to RID IT OF RATS! ...Then we claim that we will have sufficient EMPOWERMENT to go on and REBUILD THE MOVEMENT ANEW! MY COMMENT? "If you cannot clean your room, then why imagine that you can rebuild your whole house which you have burned down to remove the mess from your room? Only a complete fool thinks that it is easier to build a house than to clean a room!"

[PADA: Ummm, well then why have we not cleaned up the room already? There is not only a great stench in there but now there is an enormous herd of cockroaches, rats and garbage in that room? What you have to do is make a concrete and workable plan to clean that room and build a core of people who will do that. We tried, and we got death threats from some of the other so-called room cleaners as thanks?]

7. Srila Prabhupada DID NOT EXERCISE DICTATORIAL POWERS! His system (The system of the Vaishnava Sampradaya) is based on the VOLUNTARY gift of OBEDIENCE to the order of the Spiritual Master. WHEN IT APPEARS THAT THE "DISCIPLE" IS NOT INCLINED TO OBEY, the Spiritual Master, unlike the MATERIAL DICTATOR does not "enforce" His instructions, but WITHDRAWS Himself from the offenders.

That Srila Prabhupada CONTINUED TO COMMUNICATE WITH ISKCON should not be confused with APPROVAL of the behavior of the leaders and members. There is a HUGE body of letter directed to the GBC and others which indicates that he was NOT AT ALL PLEASED!....We, on our part, were satisfied to shrug off HIS DISSATISFACTION as the responsibility of "someone else" and we went on in our obedient way, following the UNELECTED GBC in such a way that THERE WAS NO WAY FOR SRILA PRABHUPADA TO GIVE INSTRUCTIONS THAT WOULD BE OBEYED.

Simply put, OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROCESS OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS WAS MORE IN ALLIGNMENT WITH THE MAFIA THAN THE VAISHNAVA SAMPRADAYA!

We have all heard someone say,"Well, if Srila Prabhupada did not LIKE that, then HE WOULD HAVE STOPPED IT!".....The suggestion that Srila Prabhupada was OBLIGED to play the part of POLICEMAN is the very essence of Vaishnava Aparadh! Of course, such "policemen" are described in Shastra. (Parasurama and Kalki come to mind). Such incarnations appear to deal with the disobedience of the Pured Devotees.....Hopefully, we will come to our senses before THAT occurs!

IN CONCLUSION:

From 1970 onward, WE WERE ON OUR OWN!....SRILA PRABHUPADA HAD SEPARATED HIMSELF FROM THE MANAGEMENT OF ISKCON. WE HAD CHOSEN TO FOLLOW RASCALS AND DEMONS INSTEAD OF HIM! ...SO HE "LEFT!" For that reason, it is the disobedient membership of Iskcon (us) who failed to elect representatives who would represent our interests who are to blame. We HAD SUFFICIENT INFORMATION, but we failed to UTILIZE IT!

So it is we, not He who are culpable for the Abuse.

[PADA: Agreed.]

==================================

2) DD writes

Dear PADA,

Please accept my most humble obeisances.
All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada!

I was shocked by the anonymous letter regarding Pishima that appeared in your 8/17 newsletter. Some pretty drastic statements were made, and a lot of it didn't make sense to me for the following reasons:

1. Pishima did not speak English, so the person who had this conversation with her must have spoken fluent Bengali.

2. If Pishima invited the person into her room in the Vrndavan guesthouse, the person must have been a woman because it doesn't make sense that Pishima would invite a man into her room since Pishima was a very proper Vaisnavi lady.

3. How many "old disciples of Srila Prabhupada" (as the writer claims to be) are there who are Bengali-speaking females?

4. When and where did Srila Prabhupada spend so much time alone with his sister when he could have told her all these things?

[PADA: Good questions. We hope "anon" will clarify some of this for us. Our idea was that we made the letter public since some of the points were interesting and a lot of people were already discussing this letter in various circles. Like we said, we had heard that some folks were discussing that Pishima had said that Srila Prabhupada was being poisoned way before anon came along the pipeline. So whether anon really talked to Pishima or not, we could not prove either way, and we pointed that out. Or perhaps anon has come to conclude that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned by later intuition, and that also we cannot say for sure either, but however anon figured this out, he/she has now come to the right conclusion on this issue at least.]

5. The anonymous writer says, "Srila Prabhupada was totally disgusted with his disciples' failure to understand his pure Vrajabasi mood" and "He sacrificed his life so that his bogus disciples would be cut down and stopped from preaching in the wrong way: from a neophyte platform."

[PADA: Well, Srila Prabhupada often said "will the GBC spoil it"? And so he indirectly indicated that a catastrophe, say a lawsuit or some other disaster, could ensue, that is: if the GBC went off the rails. In sum the GBC could and perhaps would spoil ISKCON. This is what he said in many places and "anon" had merely re-stated this as well, but anon said that the spoiling would take the shape of a lawsuit. Well, what does it matter? The GBC can spoil it, and they did. That is the main point.]

DD: The writer also states, "Srila Prabhupada had told her ...that he had already picked one of his disciples to be his successor."

[PADA: This does seem to be off since, why would the successor hold back and let the whole thing go totally to pot like this? Of course, Srila Prabhupada did emerge from the ashes of the Gaudiya Matha when no one expected it? In any case, this point also cannot be proven and is thus speculative. Agreed. Moreover, Srila Prabhupada pointed to a mangerial body being his agents after his departure and he did not stress on another successor? Agreed.]

DD: These statements all sound very much like the rhetoric we hear from devotees who have become followers of persons from the Gaudiya Math and Narayana Maharaja. These devotees seem to have developed a condescending attitude towards us lowly followers of Srila Prabhupada and revel in pointing out our "neophyte" status. Also, most importantly, Srila Prabhupada always said that he WOULD NOT "pick a successor", that the Guru is "self-effulgent." Regarding the mood displayed by Srila Prabhupada during his time with us, to me he appeared like a Preaching Lion in Lord Caitanya's transcendental army. This "pure Vrajabasi mood" (whatever that means) is more the realm of the Gaudiya Matha and Narayana Maharaja followers, is it not?

[PADA: Good points.]

DD: I have an old friend, who I have lost touch with for the past 10 years, who was Pishima's personal servant in 1977 in Mayapur. She considered Pishima to be a pure devotee, and Anonymous' letter just does not correlate with what my friend told me about Pishima. I would like to request that Anonymous come forward so that his/her story can be corroborated since some very grave allegations have been made. If Anonymous' letter is nothing more than a hoax, then it should be exposed as fraudulent. How despicable it would be for someone to manufacture these words and put them in our worshipable Pishima's mouth! Haven't we who are struggling to cling to Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet suffered enough heartbreak? No more, please!

Your servant,
Dinadayadri dasi

[PADA: This is certainly a huge problem. Many people have witheld bona fide information, and/or criminal information, while others have forwarded false information and/or cover-ups. That is why all of this will take some years to settle up. However, as we said earlier, some of these points were said to have been spoken by Pishima before, and we threw it out there to see what kind of other memories might be jogged out there on this topic. And we are always searching for further witnesses, recollections and so on.

We think there is still a lot of info out there which needs to come to the surface, and when we pry things like this out, all kinds of things can and sometimes do fall out of the cupboard. We have printed all kinds of letters and things that seem to be wacky at the time, but that may cause something else to happen and one never knows how it will all end up? Our policy is to sometimes print things that are being discussed, yet as we say at the top we cannot verify all the stuff we print. We had hoped that our disclaimer at the top of our newsletter would have made this clear but it sometimes happens that people say "you (pada) said this or that," when they are citing our incoming letters and not us.

Thanks for your input,

ys pd]

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SITES TO CHECK OUT:

* http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ new ISKCON reform page

Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
* http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg

* PRABHUPADANUGA'S:
* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* http://iskcontimeline.homepage.com Nandini's history site
* http://www.krishnabooks.org Krishna Books
* http://www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site

* http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ (Pada's Newsletter Archive)
* http://www.krishna.org/ (S.P. REAL AUDIO download)
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage) 
* http://www.vedabase.com/  (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)

* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters: 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 
* POISON TRANSCRIPT 
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm 

* http://www.winink.com/tkg/  (Tamal Krishna)
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc   (GBC expose)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com  (e-mail)

* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html  (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html  
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/  (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)  (Cyber gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/  (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm  (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm  [appointment tape fraud]
* http://www.gaura-nitai.net Gaura-Nitais Homepage Deutsch

* ISKCON WOMEN-PRABHUPADA'S TIME (by Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi)
* Polygamy In The Hare Krishna Movement (Pritha's Page)