Dear pada,
I will support you all the way with the poison issue. You must email all the ******* and ******* newspapers and media with the details. They do not believe me. Concentrate on making a media breakthrough. You can get all the newspapers in Yahoo.

[PADA: Well that is a good idea, and we have already tried various papers without much luck. Maybe some of the pulp newspapers there will carry the story and it can spring into the mainstream media. We will help, but you have to try to find an investigative reporter there, either main or pulp media, and see what you can do there. thanks for your offer to help,

ys pd]

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BRITNEY SPEARS, a young female rock and roll singer, says she will not have sex until she is married because she believes in God, and moreover, she talks to God. Hmmmm, does this clearly show that she is more advanced that the greatest maha - bhogha - what GBC acharyas of the jagat? They are talking to their megalamanic psychotherapists and not God?
===========================

PADA'S EDITORIAL
The ends justifies the mean-ness. It would seem to us that the biggest problem in a cult or a dictatorship is the denial and cover-up by the leaders. That is why so many of the molested children are so angry, their problem was never heard. Of course we had the same problem, people kept saying, problem, what problem? Oddly, some of our friends are now saying, these ex-children are rurus, demons, and moreover thy are not devotees, so why should we hear their complaint? Read: Oh, the victims of us Gestapo are screaming again, but who cares, let us jackboot on their heads again! Any questions? Would Jesus spit on the victims of the inquisition who had rejected his "Church"? No, he would personally try to console an help them. Srila Prabhupada ALWAYS commented that his students were people who had rejected their hypocritical religions. Our children are simply doing what we did, they are rejecting the post-1977 hypocritical farce, a homosexual pedophile pooja relgion. Why should we not expect that? The idiot adults in our faith have gave our kids 50 billion percent more reasons to reject our faith than we had in the 1960s. Ummm, wake up dudes!

ys pd

======================

1) MACHIAVELLI?

Hari bol, Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP.

A recent PADA correspondent presented a theory, attributed to Machiaveli's "characteristicly blunt acumen," that only "armed" reformers are successful. Coming from presumably some kind of Vaisnava, such a myopic theory was shocking to read. According to this contributor, practically every great reformer, including Jesus Christ, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, The Six Goswamis, Bhaktivinode Thakura, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, even Martin Luther King "failed," as will Srila Prabhupada.

Indeed, this offensive insinuation, that Machiaveli is a better "guru," and the above-listed all should have worn armour and carried brahmastras, bazookas, or dropped A-bombs, could have been characteristically chopped to pieces by PADA's usually discerning editor. In reality, the Brahmanas--THE CONVEYORS OF IDEAS--are the real reformers; ksatriyas, etc., simply carry out their orders. In the future, could you please properly chastise such ignorance upon publication so gullible readers are not swayed by it? Hare Krsna! Keep up the good work!

YS, Jaya Krsna dasa

======================

2) AN APPEAL

Dear Prabhus and matas, pamho agt Srila Prabhupada We apologize for taking this liberty with your time. However, the matter is of some urgency and of grave importance. Already twenty-four years have passed without any positive action being taken. Even though there is much evidence to support an official investigation, all we have been subjected to is debate, rumor and innuendo. In this way, the "death" of Srila Prabhupada (and the suggestions of "arsenic poisoning" ) has caused so much heartache, that it is now intolerable.

We are appealing to devotees worldwide; to help us bring to an end (whatever the outcome) these serious allegations. It is the firm belief of many devotees worldwide; that a well presented dossier (available evidence) to the Home Minister Mr. L. K Advani (India), along with a signed petition (under the code of secrecy), will bring forth an official investigation. This writer was born and raised in Bengal and has friends in the Indian press, should the need arise; there is a good chance of support from both press and broadcasters.

A petition is being looked at by lawyers. Hopefully, we will soon have an official document that can be E-mailed for printing and signatures. No funding or other commitments are needed from anyone. Guidance by senior devotees is always welcome, but not having it will not stop us from continuing with our agenda. Should the response to our pleas be positive, we shall come to the U.S in search of signatories. If however the devotees in the US don't want any part in this (for whatever reason), we would appreciate early replies.

As the petition will reveal, it is not a witch-hunt, simply a positive effort to bring closure for disciples and followers of His Divine Grace, and for posterity's sake. By signing the petition, you will lend weight to the quest for the truth. Please help by allowing us to make a pukka presentation. It may be your first and last chance. Once again, all personal information and correspondence will be treated with the utmost confidence. In the dust at your feet.

Namaskar & Dandavats.
YS Saksi Gopal das

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3) HARE KRSNA CULT

I felt deeply affected by yesterday’s Pada, especially the letter by Kdd. Who can blame her for feeling this way? Can you imagine things like this being done to you at six years of age by people who were calling themselves devotees? Certainly, you wouldn’t want anything to do with it again in your life. Can you imagine, also, how Prabhupada would have felt reading that? My projection is that he would have felt inconsolable grief. He told me that you can never please Krsna, if you are performing devotional service and only neglecting children, what to speak of abusing them in such an unthinkable manner.

I have always felt that Krsna Consciousness is the most wonderful thing in the world, but I now have to separate that sentiment from the reality of what the organisation was ACTUALLY about. These are two completely different things: two different agendas and two different realities.

The thing is, Prabhupada never managed the movement. He was a sanyassi and he always said that the duty of a sanyassi was to preach and although it might seem to many that Prabhupada was in control and that he was orchestrating everything, he was never directly involved in management. He was instructing disciples like Kirtananda, Tamal, Bhagavan, Satsvarupa, Jagadish etc., but not actually doing anything himself but travelling, preaching and translating his books. For management he was relying on the sincerity of his leading disciples.

But I see a very clear pattern here. If it were possible to carry out such a survey, I believe that most people who have been involved in the Hare Krsna Movement over the past 34 years, would say that there were many good things, but overall the experience was a painful one. Many adults as well as children, are still trying to come to terms with the agony they suffered in trying to surrender to the authority of uncaring leaders who ultimately mistreated them. Everyone I talk to - even the ones that are still favourable to the society recognise that they lost their personality in the process.

The ruthless leaders that run the movement have a tendency to abuse everyone who doesn’t fall in line with their thinking. We can see examples of this in the recent letters about Suhotra’s crimes against Oliver in Germany, Narakkriti, Ashvahari and Dharma Rupa in Prague and Dasarath in Tuscon. Why is this allowed to continue and who is sorting it out? I’m quite sure the answer is no-one, because abuse is a regular part of cult activity and so no-one in Iskcon’s leadership will bothered by these few cases – f--king morons! (my apologise to any ladies reading this).

Emerson writes in his essays that if a person has a fault it will be seen in all his performances. So we see that the adult devotees were abused, we see that the children were abused - and Prabhupada wasn’t? I don’t think so! Prabhupada was as much a victim. This poison issue has got to be cleared up. Not just for the sake of punishing the demons who might have done this, that will be automatically carried out by the laws of nature, but for the sake of the many thousands of sincere devotees who gave their life to pushing on this movement. They DESERVE to know the truth.

Fact: The Hare Krsna Movement has been a destructive force in the lives of those involved. This goes for devotees, their families and their children. If a book were written of all the atrocities that have been committed in the name of Prabhupada and Krsna it would contain many of the most horrific stories that anyone had ever read. There would be corruption, murder, bank robberies, burglaries, smuggling, drug-running, child abuse and thousands of human rights issues. There is a saying in the Bible, that you can know a tree by it’s fruits, for a good tree cannot produce bad fruits etc., Prabhupada say’s the same, that a process is known by the result. This movement has been a cult, for as long as it’s NOT been managed by Prabhupada. That means anything after The New York storefront.

I’m glad to see that the Turley case will bring destruction and wipe out these temples in America. It is obviously Krsna’s arrangement, to clean up this filthy mess.

Yaduvendu
yvendu@hotmail.com

==========================

4) Defending Prabhupada More then "Conditioning"

This mystery writer is probably some devotee pretending to be guru-kuli. People should write me directly next time and not anonymously. They write: I think some of you people are so conditioned into defending SP, that you are trying desperately to overlook, if not AGAIN say that our abuse was either 1. Justified as our karma; 2. exagerated; 3. just plain did not happen.

Actually, there is a 4th reason: not allowing Jagadish to hide his guilt (of promoting and protecting severe abusers) behind the mantle of Prabhupada. Nor do I want these monster teachers to hide their criminal abuse behind Indian culture. If you had actually read my letter to Turley, you would known this. If you were not so mislead by Jagadish's propaganda of blaming Prabhupada, you would be allowed to see Jagadish's role more clearly--which would leave you as disgusted about Jagadish as I am. I only hope the courts don't overlook Jagadish's role as you have. This is one of my primary concerns.

You asked where I was when you were being abused? So I ask: where you were when I spent 80% of my effort trying to expose all these abuses when kulis were not interested in discussing it, devotees would not hear of it and the GBC condemned me as the lone voice on the issue?

Where were you when I was spending 50% of all my money on printing and distributing the material for exposing the abuse of all my friends? I told of all my friends, not just my own abuse which was severe. Where were you when I was dealing with devotee, GBC and guru condemnation for being "monkey's" simply because of the reunions? I even faced gurukuli apathy in starting these reunion forums which have lead to finding our identity as a community? Again, costing me hundreds of dollars, lots of time and effort and little appreciate by way of cash or tangible help from either kulis or devotees.

As soon as there was money offered by ISKCON--every other gkuli was employed in the number of projects but me. Where were you then? Where were you when we where bullying the GBC to create new organizations to fight child abuse in the movement--and succeeded? I spent about $8,000 dollars in two years when my income was hardly $7,000 a year. Did you bother to give even $70 dollars for the cause then or now? Where were you 10 years ago when I stood alone for this cause with no other prospects but great personal financial lost, condemnation from the GBC and isolation from uninterested devotees and kulis?

You like most of my friends where getting an education, starting families, making money. I put all these things on hold so these issues about us would finally be heard. Today, I stand alone, once again, with no career, no formal education, no money and no family. What I see is someone jumping in now that it is highly fashionable to condemn the movement, when they can receive high profile media attention, when they have powerful attorney's to back them up, a sympathetic audience among the devotees, a large group of kulis to support their ideas and hundreds of millions of dollars to cash in on.

Yet, I have non of these advantages in my position and still I speak out against the abusers, by name, date, place and in accordance with other witnesses. I now do this concerning Prabhupada's role as much as I did in presenting other people of our guru-kula history. Devotees respond with some kind words or mumble how I am simply feeding Turley with information and failing to recognize the importance of the concensus created. Others insist I should do more to defend Prabhupada. Yet, these same devotees will not offer so much as $25 dollars though I now have $5,000 on my credit cards and 8 months of my life spent on these issues.

Devotees spend their time and money on everything but this. The GBC is mute to all my efforts while they spend tens of thousands for legal posturing -- not on clarifying the issue of Prabhupada's role. Gurukulis who do support me are quite in public while the younger kulis who know little of Jagadish or Prabhupada condemn me for sharing my first hand accounts of both. Now for the final insult, I have to hear some devotee (pretending to be a guru-kuli) tell me that I do all of this out of "conditioning." I'll take their opinion seriously when they have committed 3 years, full time and about $13,000 of their out-of-pocket money to this cause. Until then, they are blowing hot air like the rest of those on both sides of the issue.

Turley has put his money where his mouth is. Devotees should consider doing the same much as the writer who sent me the letter. I have followed my words with financial commitment--everything I have plus all my remaining credit. Nirmal dedicated his money. Manu did the same. So has Anuttama and Turley. Besides them, everyone else is just entertaining themselves. Here's where I'm getting at. There are 2,000 kulis. If we each threw in just $35 a month, we would have $800,000 a year. With that, we could buy ourselves large community properties, produce our story as a movie, get a boat to sail the world, hire a small force to shake down our abusers or what ever we decided we wanted. Some kulis will have $, some won't, but on average, it is possible.

If 500 devotees pitched in just $35 a month, we would have $200,000 a year to do things with. This personifies what I'm getting at: consensus and financial commitment--even if it be small. Until then, if your not ready to take action, then at least be more apprediative of the sacrifices made by others for the cause you will now cash in on.

Raghunatha Anudasa

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

* BOMBAY India: http://www.acbspn.com/

*Book For Sale "Someone Has Poisoned Me," You can get it from: New Jaipur Press/ POB 208/ Mayodan NC 27027 $10.00 requested donation

* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* MONTREAL, Canada, Hasti Gopala Dasa (for details write to: hasti90@hotmail.com)

* BERKELEY California. Hare Krishna Youth, 510-389-3346 conducts regular harinam parties, arotikes, cooking classes, college preaching, Prabhupada video nights, and so on.

* NEW YORK "Prabhupada Sankirtana Society" Headquarters 48 Ave. B NY, NY 10009 (212) 674-0680, PSS108@juno.com

01) http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ pada newsletter archive
02) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 Poison tape

03) Poison tape transcript:
03) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
04) http://www.winink.com/tkg/ Poison whispers
05) www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site
06) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html Puranjana's Site
07) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc GBC expose
08) http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html French site
09) http://members.aol.com/gauridas Gauridasa's site
10) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ Rocana's site
11) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm Poison issue
12) www.harekrsna.de "Hare Krsna Homepage" (German)
13) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/ ISKCON Reform (German)
14) German translation of Final Order (pdf)
14) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/final.htm
15) http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ (German Expose)
16) http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
17) http://www.surrealist.org/gurukula/ Nandini's history site
19) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/ GBC
20) "illicit sex guru" rationalizations:
20) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/iskcon/right.htm
21) http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm Appointment tape fraud
22) http://www.asitis.com Original Bhagavad-gita As It Is
23) http://krsnabook.com Original Krsna Book
24) http://www.krishna.org Prabhupada Hare Krishna News Network
25) http://folio.bhaktivedanta.org S.P. Folio Infobase CD-ROM
26) http://realaudio.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada RealAudio Archive
27) http://mp3.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada MP3 Bhajans, 2 CD set

28) http://krsna.kgb.cz/hlavni.htm Prague Czech-devotees (english)
29) http://www.domgbc.org petition for new GBC
30) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
31) http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm (Cyber gurukula)