Dear Puranjana prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Here's a site to add to your SITE LIST: http://www.govinda.net It's a place to trade hard-to-find first editions of Srila Prabhpada's books and other nectar! Thanks. Your servant,

Jitendriya dasa
===================================

SANAT AND NNV SPECIAL --

Dear Sanat prabhu,

PAMHO, AGTSP!

NNV: In terms of gender relationships, the early days of Iskcon were brutally horrible beyond belief.

[PADA: Wrong, there were very few women beaters in ISKCON in the early days. And the men and women mixed, and did service together, and there were few "big" problems. In India there were maybe 25 devotees of mixed gender travelling together and we all pretty much got along fine. NNV is trying to justify his "horrible beyond belief" actions by saying it was widespread. Wrong portrayal of ISKCON: and Srila Prabhupada.]

NNV: I was not so fortunate. When I joined, a new brutality had set in.

[PADA: Nonsense. There was not a "big brutality" progam going on especially in the early days. This is your re-writing of history.]

NNV: I joined in San Francisco in 1968.

[PADA: When you joined there were hardly even any married couples, period, what to speak of "a lot of beaters." This is simply false.]

NNV: My immedialte "Authorities" and mentors were Tamal Krishna, and Gargamuni ...both complete and "unreconstructed" misogenists. Bhavananda, who hated women and children, was my assistant, and then associate.

[PADA: OK, so you looked up to the wrong people as your mentors, that was and is your problem. Srila Prabhupada should have been your ideal, not these bums.]

NNV: I worked under the direction of Jayatirtha and Rameshwara and Karandhar, all of whom held women in Contempt.

[PADA: Well, maybe, but these guys were not women beaters, at least we never heard of it?]

NNV: I had never lived in a "nest" of active homosexuals before. It seemed that they had a "cult" of hatred for women, sneering and mocking them as though they had no value whatsoever.

[PADA: So why were you following them? You were not supposed to follow them?]

NNV: These were my "mentors" my "authorities" and furthermore, Srila Prabhupada had sent me a letter in 1968 (or early 1969) requesting that I strictly obey the temple "authorities" even if I did not agree that their agenda's were Krishna Conscious, or obedient to Him!

[PADA: Well, now you are blaming Srila Prabhupada for your abusive behaviors.]

NNV: It seems to me that we were just like filthy "rats" that He trained to carry valuable jewels taped to our stinking slimy backs. Which snarling yellow toothed rat was "right" and which one "wrong"? Which was a "good obedient rat" and which was "a rat in complete "maya"?

[PADA: Well, not many other devotees behaved like rats and bit their spouses' heads off like yourself?]

NNV: ...At every opportunity, we sank our teeth into each other's legs, and tried to bite each other's jugular vein. As soon as someone was bitten, he would howl to Srila Prabhupada to punish the rat that bit him.

[PADA: And Srila Prabhupada told Dinadayadri that she did not have to endure your abuse, it was wrong.]

NNV: ...in future... we will have learned not to beat our wives, or disrespect our husbands or abuse and molest our children, or sue ourselves silly while trying to blame others for the things we did ourselves.

[PADA: This is a good admission. The abuse of women was then spread to the areas, to the of abuse of children, since the mood of "institutional abuse" was made acceptable by some prominent persons, and it is these people who are responsible for the lawsuit, not pada, as NNV admits herein.

NNV: Sanat prabhu, Your essay below is brilliant. The only reason that I do not feel comfortable praising it more strongly, is that I am not in a position to do so. I have been rightly accused of striking my wife on close to a dozen occasions during our four year marriage, so it is completely inappropriate for me to expound on how my wife's suffering was caused by her Karma.

[PADA: Very significant point, Sanat/ Mukunda are giving the argument that the abuse victims are "getting their karma" (see below) which is what the GBC has argued all along.]

NNV: In short, our Karma COULD NOT ACT, unless Krishna as Supersoul empowerd our every action. ...IT MUST BE NOTED HOWEVER, THAT ALTHOUGH NO ONE IS KILLED WHO DOES NOT FULLY DESERVE TO BE KILLED, THE KILLER OF THIS PERSON PERFORMS A DEED OF "VIKARMA" AND THAT HE IS FULLY KARMICALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS EGREGIOUS MISUSE OF FREE WILL.

[PADA: Well good, so that means you have to take responsiblity and quit blaming the so-called mob rule mentality of abuse that you allege was going on in early ISKCON, but which we did not observe in early ISKCON? You are the one who has to take the blame, so why is Sanat contradicting you below?]

NNV: It quickly became clear that PADA has discovered that the "POWER OF THE PRESS" rests not in what you say, or the balanced debate that you offer in your forum, but WHAT YOU DELIBERATELY REFUSE TO PUBLISH, in order to make things seem very different that they actually are.

[PADA: You are still blaming your abusive nature on your being influenced by a so-called evil mood that pervaded early ISKCON, but which did not affect most of the other devotees who were and still are peaceful (hippie types?) ....even to this very day most of them are gentle souls?]

SANAT: new improved version; LETTER TO DINADAYADRI dd, from sanat

SANAT: ...These GN parents have [had] no excuse for not forming their own schools, especially after some of the children had been found out to have been abused in India.

[PADA: Good point. Sanat was one of those parents, so according to himself, he has "no excuse" for letting these kids down.]

SANAT: ...and didn't let them get a way with any offences to the cows, keeping in touch with Vets, the media, animal rights groups, and AAC donors.

[PADA: Of course, if someone else contacts the media with any complaints, Sanat will say they are trying to ruin ISKCON and give it a bad rap. Meanwhile, he calls the media and says ISKCON is full of cow abusers.]

SANAT: ...a faithful wife and a kind mother. It is said that Gandhari also voluntarily closed her eyes because of the blindness of her husband. A WIFE'S DUTY IS TO FOLLOW THE HUSBAND CENT PERCENT.

[PADA: When a woman is getting beaten she should follow that "husband"? Even dogs do not live like that.]

SANAT: Now, with all due respects to Mother Ddd, NNV's wife, let's consider that approaching the PADA rag-letter with your complaints may be a mistake, possibly brought on by the illusory energy.

[PADA: NNV beat DD, so how is he her "husband"? "Husband" means protector, not beater? Why is she obligated to accept beatings --from anyone? Moreover, Srila Prabhupada told her she was not obligated to accept that treatment? Are you greater than Srila Prabhupada? And why are you saying that someone who is beating Srila Prabhupada's child is "her husband," no he is a criminal. A beater of Srila Prabhupada's child is to be respected? He is you pati guru model? By you yes. Why by us?]

SANAT: ...whereas you (DD) are seeking consolation and empathy from these Guru-defaming miscreants for being UNchaste toward your husband.

[PADA: A woman is being beaten, she complains, and that means she is being "unchaste"? This is what Kirtanananda said all along? Women should be beaten, and if they complain, they are unchaste. Just see the misogyny links here!]

SANAT: ...There is NOT ONE precedent for this type of unladylike behavior in the history of Mahabharata or Vaisvava Sampradaya Siddhanta.

[PADA: Ummm, a woman is being beaten, so she should accept that, or she is "unladylike"?]

SANAT: ...Certainly Gandhari could have EASILY found plenty in her husband's character to reject him, kick on his face, and later, with sympathetic supporters applauding behind her, to hang him in the village square, after much excoriatng diatribe and invective being summarily lodged against him.

[PADA: Now NNV is like, Dhrtarastha? No, Dhrtarastha was not a beater of women?]

SANAT: ...Gandhari is known as the most chaste lady in the history of the universe, practically, because she stood by her husband no matter what the social criticism, and etc. Certainly the abuse you 'suffered' was insignificant compared to the austerities Gandhari endured.

[PADA: Oh this is just great, women in ISKCON should be beaten senseless --and they should be happy about it. Why? Well, the beatings could be even worse. When we chop off one of your fingers, you should be happy. Why? Well, we could cut off two. Oh, so happy!]

SANAT: ...Aside from this example, the letter you cited from Srila Prabhupada [74-5-44] , wherein His Divine Grace cites the example to you of Srimati Kuntidevi, is even more telling of Prabhupada's 'indirect' or 'between the lines' message to your Grace: Kunti Devi certainly suffered quietly more than anyone else in Mahabharata, because in her case, her beloved sons were totally righteous, pious and adored and adorable by all.

[PADA: What does this have to do with some neanderthal's beatings upon a woman? Nothing. Apart from that, we are not on the level of Kunti? She is an eternal parishada devotee of the Lord, so she can endure the un-endurable because she is internally, eternally, linked to Krishna, just like Prahlad maharaja endured things which Srila Prabhupada says "would have killed any of you." We are not on this level, nor are we supposed to endure wife beaters with the idea that Kunti endured some other problems, this is mixing apples and oranges?]

SANAT: ...Have you ever read this treatise?

[PADA: You definately have not. A woman is supposed to be protected, that is what Srila Prabhupada says everywhere, where did this woman beater idea come from?]

SANAT: Have you seen any evidence that these persons in our Sampradaya have EVER made a public spectacle because of actions taken against them by others, especially their own husbands?!

[PADA: A husband is a protector, a beater is a criminal.]

SANAT: ...is to be undisturbed by worldly calamities, WHICH ARE SURE TO HAPPEN IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES.

[PADA: Woman beating is "sure to happen," so we "should just tolerate it"? No, even the karmis have taken special measures to go after woman beaters, and the cops in this town will spare no time, expense, and force to get a woman beater. On the other hand, woman beaters are sure to happen if people like you protect them, as you are herein.]

SANAT: ...Suffering all sorts of unavoidable misfortunes ONE SHOULD MAKE PROGRESS IN SPIRITUAL REALIZATION BECAUSE THAT IS THE MISSION OF HUMAN LIFE.

[PADA: Woman beating is avoidable, we simply have to call the police. Why is this not avoidable? It is. Of course if we rationalize it, like you are doing, then it will occur more and more.]

SANAT: ...Actually there is no tiger, and there is no suffering; it is simply a case of dreams. In the same way, all calamities of life are said to be dreams...

[PADA: Woman beating is not suffering? It is all a dream? So, why call the police? Why try to get help? This is all maya? Of course, if Sanat gets a belly ache, he goes to the doctor for his "dream illusion suffering."]

SANAT: ...How does a devotee receive dangers? There must be dangers because this material world is full of dangers. But foolish people who do not know this try to avoid the dangers. Thus they struggle for existence..."

[PADA: Oh goody, calling the police on your abuser husband is "avoiding the inevitable dangers of the material world." Read: you beating, or molesting, is inevitable, it is your karma, just accept our abuser-ness. This is identical to the preaching that was given to the gurukulis. No wonder they are so pissed! We are glad we have this in writing to show all kinds people! They admit, we want to make others suffer, and if they complain, it is their "foolish attempt" to avoid inevitable dangers. Yep, and we beater class are the danger because we are violent cult thugs.]

SANAT: ...So, my dear Mataji Prabhu, you are now complaining of this matter 27 years later [after your calamity w/NNV] and pleas are being made that NNV pay some moneys and etc., as though this will mitigate the calamity or suffering.

[PADA: Good question. Sanat went to the public USA government Social Security mental health department and told them he had 20 years of abuse in a cult, so could they give him MONEY, which he got. He demanded it! He collects an SSI check every month for his "cult abuse." He told the SSI that this cult caused him suffering, and so he needs SSI and welfare money, which he duly lives on, and the reason he gave the government is: he needs to money to mitigate his suffering from cult abuse! Now he says that if anyone else wants the same thing, they are hypocrites and offenders! Well, Sanat you are getting $10,000 a year SSI, $10,000 a year welfare, and thousands from HUD, and all the hand outs you can get, ...for your "cult abuse"? Now, if someone else is abused, they cannot get one paisa, and on top of that, you hound them to hell?]

SANAT: But this would indicate that you have missed the point of KC and Prabhupada's voluminous instructions, which are there to assist all living beings in seeing the futility of struggling against the unavoidable miseries.

[PADA: Except for Sanat, he is beating the door off the SSI office, as he told me himself, begging them to give him MONETARY relief from his cult miseries? He goes to the USA government and tells them that ISKCON is a bad cult, can they give him money to save him from the bad cult, then he complains we are giving ISKCON a bad name? He says he has made OFFICIAL PUBLIC RECORD that he needs mental help from ISKCON's abuse, then he says we are bad for making ISKCON look bad? He wanted SSI money for his abuse. And the welfare office. And the HUD office. And so on. But no one else is allowed to get one paisa, just thousands and thousands of cult abuse relief for Sanat! No one else, especially a woman who needs help!]

SANAT: The very fact that this 'discussion' is taking place like this, is proof that you learned not from the incident[s], and that now other people are being abused by your [and others'] refusal or inability to go beyond this your bodily attachment and perpetual complaining against 'others who harmed me'.

[PADA: ...Which is exactly the reasons you said you gave to the SSI department for demanding money from them? "Others have harmed me." Which means, you have learned less than her, she only wants 1000 for her 100 years life, you are getting 20,000 a year welfare and SSI for your life, that means she is asking one millionth of what you are ---demanding!?!]

SANAT: And this type of non essential discussion diverts one's mind from important spiritual topics ...like discussing Sriman Sulocana's treatise on women and marriage, etc.

[PADA: Except that Sanat runs happily to his mail box to pick up his check every month that he is getting for "being abused by others."]

SANAT: Wherein HG Sd points out the Gaudia Vaisnava Siddhanta that a woman is eternally wedded to her husband, and that the wife need NOT to even 'have a guru', because the husband is actually her Guru.

[PADA: Oh this is getting even better, a woman beater is: Sanat and Mukunda's guru. The living representative of God, to Sanat/ Mukunda. No Sanat, a woman beater is not even a human being, but he is your guru, good, we should all note that woman beaters are your gurus. And molesters were your gurus, so you are advancing from child beater molesters gurus to woman beater molesters gurus. Very advanced.]

SANAT: ...She shares imperceptively in her good husband's pious or devotional activities,

[PADA: Oh goody, the wife beater is now "the good husband," this is rich!]

SANAT: ...anywhere, which is WHY our Vaisnava philosophy is so sublime ...CHASTITY OF WOMANHOOD!!

[PADA: And so we should be chaste to woman beaters?]

SANAT: Now, i may say i have never met you nor your husband, NNV. But i had never met Pud [PADA] either, but i can tell you honestly and openly that Pud represents "rogues and nondevotees" who are introducing IRRELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES.

[PADA: That is correct, we do not endorse folks who engaged in violent physical assaults with jack-boots on a devotee woman's head and ribs while she is offering her obeisances to God, like Sanat's team does, so we are deviants.]

SANAT: Thus your 'cooperating' with him means the opposite of what SP is calling for in the above.

[PADA: Yep, you should be happy we are only jack-booting you fool women, we could do worse. We could kill you?]

SANAT: Attacking your husband in public with a private grudge is certainly irreligious, and anyone 'supporting' you in this misguided adventure is absolutely NOT your well-wishing friend, or bona fide advocate.

[PADA: Ummm, advocates against woman and children abuse, and indeed jack-boots on a woman's head while she is bowing to God, are deviants and irreligious?]

SANAT: These Puds and associates are simply opportunistically using you to further their own demonic ends. PADA is NOT 'Prabhupada ANTI-Defamation, as he ludicrously advertises. He has openly admitted to "being COMPROMISED WITH TURLEY", which lawfirm is openly antagonistic towards Srila Prabhupada, and is currently defaming HDG regularly in the Press and on its demoniac website.

[PADA: We never said we compromised with the complaints of all of the gurukulis. This is an outright lie. Nor has Sanat ever shown any text where we said we agree with the statements of the Turley case? But what is not a lie is that Sanat has made illegal public death threats to these kulis, and he has sent copies to the Texas lawfirm, and many other kulis, and that his illegal actions probably will end up in the court, and that will defame the religion: death threats to molested children, that is how Sanat wants to glorify ISKCON.]

SANAT: ...PADA is encouraging you to defame and attack your husband.

[PADA: A woman beater is not a husband, he is a criminal. Even the karmis know that.]

SANAT: Impugning the husband, according to the great women of the past, is tantamount to defaming the SPG Hmself!! This is an incontrovertible fact, not some theory i made up.

[PADA: Oh goody, when a woman is beaing beaten up, she should not protest, this is blaspheming Srila Prabhupada.]

SANAT: But the fact is you can't change your karma or even Krsna karma, it's not possible.

[PADA: Oh goody, back to the old "it is your karma" argument. Well, why did you go begging for 20,000 a year from the USA government? Why didn't you just say, oh well, this is my karma? No, you begged them and went through tests, filled out tons of papers, for years, to lodge your cult abuse complaint. Why can't others lodge a cult abuse complaint? Oh ye hypocrites, sons of vipers!, says Jesus]

SANAT: Whatever we don't willingly accept as our just due, is going to come regardless.

[PADA: So, why doesn't Sanat accept that the Turley case is his karma for supporting SDG? Which it is?]

SANAT: Even if there is danger or suffering in KC, we should tolerate it.

[PADA: By making years of propaganda at the SSI office to give us a handout....]

SANAT: We SHOULD EVEN WELCOME SUCH DANGER, and we should pray in appreciation to Krsna.

[PADA: By hiding in a WW III bunker waiting for the bombs to drop, fearing our own shadow....]

SANAT: ...is the viewpoint of a devotee. He doesn't regard danger as danger. Rather, he thinks, "It is Krsna's mercy." What kind of mercy?

[PADA: He gets mercy from the SSI so he can build a bomb shelter in some weeny town out in the middle of nowhere... being afraid of the a-bombs....]

SANAT: In court an important man is sometimes found to be a culprit, and the judge may be able to fine him a hundred thousand dollars and know that the man can pay it. But he may tell the man, "You just give one cent." That is also punishment, but it is greatly minimised. Similarly, we have to suffer for our past deeds.

[PADA: Except when a woman asks for something for her abuse, she cannot take anyone to court? She cannot make her abuser suffer? This is rather one sided justice? The abuser gets mercy, not the victim?]

SANAT: We should act in such a way that our KC can under no circumstances be disturbed, even if there is a HEAVY suffering. THAT IS THE INSTRUCTION OF KUNTIDEVI....

[PADA: Except when Sanat's wife beater guru is suffering, then he re-writes the Bible to come to his aid.]

SANAT: For instance, if the 'beatings' you allegedly received from Sriman Nara-Narayan Prabhu were a token punishement for some heavy suffering you would ordinarily have received [for some horiible sins you committed in the past], and if you rebel against Krsna's Will in handing you these VERY MINIMISED reactions, then that automatically means that those whom you harmed in this life or past lives can similarly ACCUSE YOU, Ddd, at some future point, and similarly demand recompense. Are you NOT aware of this fact, ie. Law of Nature? As we sow, we reap. If we don't take our God-ordained suffering in a KC manner, and rebel against the Lord's compassionate Supremacy, then we will be given much more severe 'lessons' to bear as result.

[PADA: Wow! This above text should immediately be sent to all of the molested kulis as the textbook example of the rationale for their abuse! Great stuff!]

SANAT: I would humbly suggest that you reconsider your position and amend your faulty behavior. Your husband, for all his faults, is one of those "perfect disciples of the acarya" who tries "to relieve the situation by sincerely following the instructions of the spiritual master."

[PADA: By beating a woman disciple of the Spiritual Master, he is helping the master?]

your servant, sanat das

SITES TO CHECK OUT:


NEW SITE: Visoka dasa vishoka@juno.com
http://www.egroups.com/group/Vaisnavacouncil

* http://www.krsna.tv

*Book For Sale "Someone Has Poisoned Me," You can get it from: New Jaipur Press/ POB 208/ Mayodan NC 27027 $10.00 requested donation

* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* MONTREAL, Canada, Hasti Gopala Dasa (for details write to: hasti90@hotmail.com)

* BERKELEY California. Hare Krishna Youth, 510-389-3346 conducts regular harinam parties, arotikes, cooking classes, college preaching, Prabhupada video nights, and so on.

* NEW YORK "Prabhupada Sankirtana Society" Headquarters 48 Ave. B NY, NY 10009 (212) 674-0680, PSS108@juno.com

01) http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ pada newsletter archive
02) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 Poison tape

03) Poison tape transcript:
03) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
04) http://www.winink.com/tkg/ Poison whispers
05) www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site
06) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html Puranjana's Site
07) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc GBC expose
08) http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html French site
09) http://members.aol.com/gauridas Gauridasa's site
10) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ Rocana's site
11) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm Poison issue
12) www.harekrsna.de "Hare Krsna Homepage" (German)
13) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/ ISKCON Reform (German)
14) German translation of Final Order (pdf)
14) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/final.htm
15) http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ (German Expose)
16) http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
17) http://www.surrealist.org/gurukula/ Nandini's history site
19) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/ GBC
20) "illicit sex guru" rationalizations:
20) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/iskcon/right.htm
21) http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm Appointment tape fraud
22) http://www.asitis.com Original Bhagavad-gita As It Is
23) http://krsnabook.com Original Krsna Book
24) http://www.krishna.org Prabhupada Hare Krishna News Network
25) http://folio.bhaktivedanta.org S.P. Folio Infobase CD-ROM
26) http://realaudio.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada RealAudio Archive
27) http://mp3.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada MP3 Bhajans, 2 CD set
28) www.domgbc.org (Direction Of Management)
29) www.acbspn.com/ BOMBAY India
30. www.ROOPA.org (Raghunatha dasa's world economics proposal)

31) http://krsna.kgb.cz/hlavni.htm Prague Czech-devotees (english site)
32) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
33) http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm (Cyber gurukula)

A WEB SITE DEALING WITH WOMEN AND CHILDREN EXPLOITATION:
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/tocv.htm