MUSIC v FORENSICS

Dear PADA pamho agtSP
For those PADA readers following our report on the book; "NOT that I am POISONED" and the "forensic scientist" called Dave, who was hired by "the ministry for the protection of iskcon," to refute the work of Mr. Jack Mitchell (audio forensic examiner) here is the update:

After several attempts to contact "Dave" and failing, we handed over our woes to professionals. Within a day, we received this report:- (1) Mr. David James Neil had no qualifications in the field of forensic science, his only claim to audio work was experience in the music industry. (2) He had no idea where the "link" to his having worked for/with the Australian Federal Police came from, since he can't remember having said this (our own research finds this recommendation to be a total fabrication by the "ministry for the protection of iskcon" since it was they whom published this nonsense). (3) He (Dave) claimed that although he did say some areas of audio science were debatable, he never implied (as the book would have us believe) that Mr. Jack Mitchell's methods were under question (page 75 para 4). (4) Mr. "Dave" Neil expressed his concern; that the book had been published using words attributed to him without him ever signing a transcript prior to its publication. (5) Mr. "Dave" Neil's studio (The Refinery Mastering) never carried "state of the art equipment" necessary for audio forensics. (6) Mr. Neil told our investigator, "The quality of the tape brought to me was not too good. What I heard AT THE TIME was "The swelling is going down" (unquote). Yet the book tells us, " I COULD CLEARLY HEAR [....]... "THE SWELLING IS GOING DOWN, THE SWELLING IS GOING DOWN" (page 75 para 1). Mr Neil's actual "job description" and "cost" for the iskcon ministry is not yet to hand, but we intend to secure these details for files, dossiers and notification.

So, although this behaviour may be considered by some to be no more than 'argumentum ad experto publico relationonem, ' and not a serious felony, aspiring devotees of the Lord abhor this misrepresentation, misquotation and duplicity. If this is the ethos of iskcon's protectors; what in the name of God is is..con? Since we personally know and share many fond memories with the producer of this book (NOT that I am POISONED), and can vouch for his sagacity, our only intent in doing this expose; was to make him and others acknowledge the poisonous oozings from the head of the iskcon serpent ...destroying even the best attempts at self-realization. iskcon claims to be the incarnation of Sri Krsna, but for those immune to the propaganda contaminant ...it is the most sinister and unsettled of all denominations, with the largest variety of tickets to hell.

Dandavats & pranams SGd

[PADA: Thanks prabhu. It seems pretty evident to us that the Prabhupadanugas are the only ones who are going to pursue this issue and get it resolved and we are very thankful for their work in this regard. We would also say that fools like the GBC/ Sanat/ Mukunda and similar others who are trying to attack the efforts of us Prabhupadanugas in doing the "poison resolution" job are going to get a piece of the same ticket that the poison sabha are going to get, as these attackers are directly protecting the evil doers by attempting to undermine the efforts to get justice for Srila Prabhupada.]

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1) ORIGINAL EDITION OF "Teachings Of Lord Chaitanya" now available...

Paranjana I noticed that even the Preface was re-written in the Teaching of Lord Chaitanya. I guess its not what Srila Prabhupada writes or speaks but what He meant to write. The part about Junior Haridas and how Lord Chaitanya was strict like a thunderbolt with those in the renounced order of life but soft as a rose to householders was almost taken out of the newer version of TLC.

Maybe they were trying to make the Introduction shortened to two pages like something that happened to Bhagavad-gita AS IT IS when it was shortend down to a couple of chapters or something almost as bad. Srila Prabhupada isn't here to tell me how to make the TLC, I know he liked the 1972 version so I just present it without adding or taking anything away. Its in paper back $15 at www.krsna.tv eventually I would like to make a hard bound. Maybe I'm supposed to have Jaya Adwaita re write this email so that its not what I wrote but what I meant to write.

ys Bhagwatam@cs.com

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2) RE: READING OTHER BOOKS

Thank you, prabhus, for your wonderful realizations.

I became acutely aware of the danger of referring to the writings of other authorities when the GBC explained how to relate to a fallen guru based on the instructions of Narahari Sakara Thakura. Of course, Srila Prabhupada does not speak anywhere of fallen gurus because the vaisnava guru is a resident of the spiritual world and does not fall down. Narahari further advises the reader that whatever is heard from another guru should be brought before one's own spiritual master before it is accepted.

The GBC adopted the concept of the fallen guru because it fit well with their self-serving agenda. They did not bother to bring it before Srila Prabhupada (by researching his books) for confirmation. Thus, by neglecting the authority of their own spiritual master, the idea that gurus fall down from the path of devotional service became a pillar in the GBC's bogus acarya scheme.

My following post will provide further elucidation on the topic of whether reading the books of the previous acaryas is authorized. Once again, I thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject. Your servant,

Locanananda dasa

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Hare Krishna!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my humble obeisances.
Sorry to reply late Visoka Prabhu -- had work and other priorities. Visoka prabhu wrote:

Here are the main points:
1 In MY books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained FULLY.
2 so if there is ANYTHING which you do not understand, then you simply have to READ again and again.
3 By reading DAILY the knowledge will be REVEALED to you and by THIS PROCESS your spiritual life WILL develop.

So where is ANYTHING lacking in Srila Prabhupada's books?---the answer is NOTHING is lacking! So far as reading other acaryas books consider the following:

1 WHO translated these books? Is it the lackey of Is_con Goonda goru club who translated Or the bogus Gaudiya math gorus club. Translation from above is sure to be corrupt. (sweet rice mixed with sand).

2 Next ----how are we to understand the PURPORTS of the understanding of previous acaryas-----UNLESS we are extremely well-versed in reading and understanding Srila Prabhupada's books. Somethings may apply according to time place and circumstances--we do not know.

3 If any philosophical arguement is provided ---- the Srila Prabhupada lawbooks MUST be refered to as FINAL AUTHORITY --- BECAUSE the understandings and translation of previous acaryas books may be questionable.

I have previously--- read a few of the previous acaryas books --- BUT -- quite FRANKLEY -- I relish OUR BELOVED Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada's PURPORTS with so much joy -- I have chosen this LIFE to simply devote reading his books. Others translations --simply browse -- if I have time --(that is -- if no other Srila Prabhupada book was around). Besides that-- Srila Prabhupada's tapes/CDs lectures, conversations, Morning-walks, Bhajans---occupy my life fully---I do not have extra time to sus out if other acarya's books translated by others are bonafide or not.

ys mahesh

REQUESTED EXTRACT

760503rc.hon Conversations 431337/549557

Prabhupada: This is our position. Gradually they will show Hare Krsna movement. In India also, although India's... They will want to crush down this movement. So this will be up to Him. Krsna or Krsna's movement, the same thing. And Krsna was attempted to be killed by Kamsa class of men and his company, the demons. So it will be there; it is already there. Don't be disappointed, because that is the meaning that it is successful. Krsna's favor is there, because Krsna and Krsna's movement is not different, nondiff..., identical. So as Krsna was attempted to be killed, many, many years before He appeared...

At eighth child, if the mother produces child yearly, still ten years, eight years before His birth, the mother was to be attempted to be killed. So there may be attempt like that. And Lord Jesus Christ was killed. So they may kill me also.

Siddha-svarupa: I don't think that is possible.

Prabhupada: No, I mean to say, I am not so important man. But it is the, this is the way of the law. If we become weak by factioning, then that is not good. We must be strong and... But you do not expect that this movement will be accepted. In India the so-called yogis, Rama Krishna Mission-- they are also being afraid of. There are so many... But if we remain sincere, even we are feeble, new-born, nobody can kill us. That is a fact. Just like Krsna when He was three months old, attempt was made by Putana to kill Him, but the Putana was killed. A big demon, gigantic, six miles long, and what is killed by a small child playing on the..., sucking breast and sucking life. That is Krsna. So the other day I have explained that by guru, he is accepted as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have typed it?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Go on. Yes, arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matih. Naraki, if anyone thinks arca-vigraha, the Deities as made of stone, made of earth, or made of something material, and guru, the spiritual master, "He is an ordinary man"--these are forbidden. So why guru is to be considered saksad dharitvena samasta-sastrair, exactly (like) the Supreme Personality of Godhead? That reason is given there. That reason is that he is giving the Krsna knowledge; therefore he is as good as Krsna. Even though his family members or his friend thinking, "Oh, he has now become guru," still he should be considered the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That reason also given there, that even Krsna was taken as ordinary...

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DIKSA (Divya jnana -transcendental knowledge )

I have read some discussion on DIKSA(Divya jnana) sometimes misunderstood by some. Just to present a clear picture: "But knowledge of the constitutional position of the living entity burns everything to ashes." So this knowledge is of ones SVARUPA relationship with Krishna in one of five relationships--namely, santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya THIS is what burns off reactions of past Karma.

SB 3.33.10 P Activities of Kapila Liberation entails being situated in one's own position. That is the definition in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: muktir. .. svarupena vyavasthitih. The svarupa, or actual identity of the living entity, is described by Lord Caitanya. Jivera 'svarupa' haya--krsnera 'nitya-dasa': the real identity of the living entity is that he is ETERNALLY A SERVITOR OF THE SUPREME LORD.

Adi 7.73 Lord Caitanya in Five Features In his Anubhasya, Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami says that the actual effect that will be visible as soon as one achieves transcendental knowledge is that he will immediately become free from the clutches of maya and fully engage in the service of the Lord. UNLESS ONE SERVES THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD MUKUNDA, ONE CANNOT BECOME FREE FROM FRUITIVE ACTIVITIES UNDER THE EXTERNAL ENERGY. However, when one chants the holy name of the Lord OFFENSELESSLY, one can realize a TRANSCENDENTAL POSITION that is completely aloof from the material conception of life. RENDERING SERVICE TO THE LORD, A DEVOTEE RELATES TO THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD IN ONE OF FIVE RELATIONSHIPS--NAMELY, SANTA, DASYA, SAKHYA, VATSALYA OR MADHURYA--AND THUS HE RELISHES TRANSCENDENTAL BLISS IN THAT RELATIONSHIP. Such a relationship certainly transcends the body and mind. WHEN ONE REALIZES THAT THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD IS IDENTICAL WITH THE SUPREME PERSON, HE BECOMES COMPLETELY ELIGIBLE TO CHANT THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD. Such an ecstatic chanter and dancer must be considered to have a direct relationship with the Lord.

Madhya 8.294 Talks Between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura points out that in Vrajabhumi there is the Yamuna River with its sandy banks. There are kadamba trees, cows, Krsna's sticks with which He herds cows, and Krsna's flute. All of these belong to the santa-rasa, the mellow of neutrality in devotional service. There are also the direct servants of Krsna, such as Citraka, Patraka and Raktaka, and these are the embodiments of service in the mellow of servitude. There are also friends like Sridama and Sudama who embody service in fraternity. Nanda Maharaja and mother Yasoda are the embodiments of paternal love. Above all of these are Srimati Radharani and Her assistants, the gopis Lalita, Visakha and others, who embody conjugal love. In this way all FIVE MELLOWS--SANTA, DASYA, SAKHYA, VATSALYA AND MADHURYA -- exist eternally in Vrajabhumi. They are compared respectively to copper, bell metal, silver, gold and touchstone, the basis of all metals. Srila Kaviraja Gosvami therefore refers to a mine eternally existing in Vrndavana, Vrajabhumi.

Bg 4.37 T Transcendental Knowledge As the blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities. Purport PERFECT KNOWLEDGE OF SELF AND SUPERSELF AND OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS COMPARED HEREIN TO FIRE. THIS FIRE NOT ONLY BURNS UP ALL REACTIONS TO IMPIOUS ACTIVITIES, BUT ALSO ALL REACTIONS TO PIOUS ACTIVITIES, TURNING THEM TO ASHES. There are many stages of reaction: reaction in the making, reaction fructifying, reaction already achieved, and reaction a priori. But knowledge of the constitutional position of the living entity burns everything to ashes. When one is in complete knowledge, all reactions, both a priori and a posteriori, are consumed. In the Vedas it is stated, ubhe uhaivaisa ete taraty amrtah sadhv-asadhuni: "One overcomes both the pious and impious interactions of work.

Note: What Diksa entails is practically shown here in demonstration. SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. DEVAKI, HAVING THUS BEEN INITIATED BY VASUDEVA, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, WITHIN THE CORE OF HER HEART, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.

SB 10.2.18 P Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb AS INDICATED HERE BY THE WORD MANASTAH, THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD WAS TRANSFERRED FROM THE CORE OF VASUDEVA'S MIND OR HEART TO THE CORE OF THE HEART OF DEVAKI. WE SHOULD NOTE CAREFULLY THAT THE LORD WAS TRANSFERRED TO DEVAKI NOT BY THE ORDINARY WAY FOR A HUMAN BEING, BUT BY DIKSA, INITIATION. THUS THE IMPORTANCE OF INITIATION IS MENTIONED HERE.** UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE'S OWN HEART.**

Note: whilst one can give divya jnana in the sense -- of say ---I give Srila Prabhupada's Krsna Book to someone -BUT the fact remains --IT IS ACTUALLY SRILA SRILA PRABHUPADA WHO IS WITHIN THAT KRSNA BOOK WHO GIVES KRSNA TO THE INDIVIDUAL with the KNOWLEDGE of his CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION. Being a conditioned soul I can not transmit Krsna from my heart to another-this is foolishness! Another point is the recepient is also on SUDDHA SATTVA (PURE GOODNESS platform-- madhyama adhikari). UTTAMA ADHIKARI has the POWER TO DELIVER KRSNA. 'uttama-adhikari' se taraye samsara(22.65 Madhya)

Note : How the madhyama is given spiritual initiation (DIKSA) below and is engaged in LOVING MELLOWS (in his costitutional position as SERVANT in dasya, sakhya, vatsalya or madurya)

Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri DIKSA-KALE bhakta kare atma-samarpana/ sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama/ "AT THE TIME OF INITIATION, when a devotee FULLY SURRENDERS unto the service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself. Antya 4.193 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri "When the devotee's body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.

Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri "'The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, at that time he REACHES THE PLATFORM OF IMMORTALITY, and becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual bliss of EXCHANGE OF LOVING MELLOWS with Me.'

Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.29.34). At the time of initiation, a devotee gives up all his material conceptions. Therefore, BEING IN TOUCH WITH THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, he is situated on the TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM.

NoI 5 - When one is actually initiated by the bona fide spiritual master and when he SERIOUSLY ENGAGES IN THE SERVICE OF THE LORD, he should be accepted as a madhyama-adhikari. The chanting of the holy names of Krsna is so sublime that if one chants the Hare Krsna maha-mantra OFFENSELESSLY, carefully avoiding the ten offenses, he can certainly be gradually elevated TO THE POINT OF UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD AND THE LORD HIMSELF. ONE WHO HAS REACHED SUCH AN UNDERSTANDING SHOULD BE VERY MUCH RESPECTED BY NEOPHYTE DEVOTEES.

NoI 5 - In order to intelligently apply the sixfold loving reciprocations mentioned in the previous verse, one must select proper persons with careful discrimination. Srila Rupa Gosvami therefore advises that we should meet with the Vaisnavas in an appropriate way, according to their particular status. In this verse he tells us how to deal with three types of devotees--the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The kanistha-adhikari is a neophyte who has received the hari-nama initiation from the spiritual master and is TRYING to chant the holy name of Krsna. One should respect such a person within his mind as a kanistha-vaisnava. A MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI HAS RECEIVED SPIRITUAL INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND HAS BEEN FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD. The madhyama-adhikari should be considered to be situated midway in devotional service.

SB 1.2.20 T Divinity and Divine Service/ Thus established in the mode of UNALLOYED GOODNESS, the man whose mind has been enlivened by contact with devotional service to the Lord gains POSITIVE SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD IN THE STAGE OF LIBERATION from all material association.

SB 1.2.20 P Divinity and Divine Service/ A brahmana is the symbol of sattva-guna, or the mode of goodness. And others, who are not in the mode of goodness, are either ksatriyas, vaisyas, sudras or less than the sudras. The brahminical stage is the highest stage of human life because of its good qualities. So one cannot be a devotee unless one at least qualifies as a brahmana. The devotee is already a brahmana by action. But that is not the end of it. As referred to above, such a brahmana has to become a Vaisnava in fact to be actually in the transcendental stage.

A PURE VAISNAVA IS A LIBERATED SOUL AND IS TRANSCENDENTAL EVEN TO THE POSITION OF A BRAHMANA. IN THE MATERIAL STAGE EVEN A BRAHMANA IS ALSO A CONDITIONED SOUL BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE THE CONCEPTION OF BRAHMAN OR TRANSCENDENCE IS REALIZED, SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUPREME LORD IS LACKING.

One has to surpass the brahminical stage and reach the vasudeva stage to understand the Personality of Godhead Krsna. The science of the Personality of Godhead is the subject matter for study by the postgraduate students in the spiritual line. Foolish men, or men with a poor fund of knowledge, do not understand the Supreme Lord, and they interpret Krsna according to their respective whims. The fact is, however, that one cannot understand the science of the Personality of Godhead unless one is freed from the contamination of the material modes, even up to the stage of a brahmana. WHEN A QUALIFIED BRAHMANA FACTUALLY BECOMES A VAISNAVA, IN THE ENLIVENED STATE OF LIBERATION HE CAN KNOW WHAT IS ACTUALLY THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.

SB 1.2.21 T Divinity and Divine Service/ SB 1.2.21 Divinity and Divine Service Thus the knot in the heart is pierced, and all misgivings are cut to pieces. THE CHAIN OF FRUITIVE ACTIONS IS TERMINATED WHEN ONE SEES THE SELF AS MASTER.

SB 1.2.21 P Divinity and Divine Service/ ATTAINING SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD MEANS SEEING ONE'S OWN SELF SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Ys mahesh

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

NEW SITE: http://members.tripod.com/gurupoison (Tamal indictment)

* http://www.egroups.com/group/Vaisnavacouncil (Visoka cyber istagosthi)
* http://www.govinda.net (first editions of S.P. books)
* http://www.krsna.tv (underground Hare Krishna web site)

*Book For Sale "Someone Has Poisoned Me," You can get it from: New Jaipur Press/ POB 208/ Mayodan NC 27027 $10.00 requested donation

* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* MONTREAL, Canada, Hasti Gopala Dasa (for details write to: hasti90@hotmail.com)

* BERKELEY California. Hare Krishna Youth, 510-389-3346 conducts regular harinam parties, arotikes, cooking classes, college preaching, Prabhupada video nights, and so on.

* NEW YORK "Prabhupada Sankirtana Society" Headquarters 48 Ave. B NY, NY 10009 (212) 674-0680, PSS108@juno.com

01) http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ pada newsletter archive
02) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 Poison tape

03) Poison tape transcript:
03) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
04) http://www.winink.com/tkg/ Poison whispers
05) www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site
06) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html Puranjana's Site
07) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc GBC expose
08) http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html French site
09) http://members.aol.com/gauridas Gauridasa's site
10) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ Rocana's site
11) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm Poison issue
12) www.harekrsna.de "Hare Krsna Homepage" (German)
13) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/ ISKCON Reform (German)
14) German translation of Final Order (pdf)
14) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/final.htm
15) http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ (German Expose)
16) http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
17) http://www.surrealist.org/gurukula/ Nandini's history site
19) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/ GBC
20) "illicit sex guru" rationalizations:
20) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/iskcon/right.htm
21) http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm Appointment tape fraud
22) http://www.asitis.com Original Bhagavad-gita As It Is
23) http://krsnabook.com Original Krsna Book
24) http://www.krishna.org Prabhupada Hare Krishna News Network
25) http://folio.bhaktivedanta.org S.P. Folio Infobase CD-ROM
26) http://realaudio.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada RealAudio Archive
27) http://mp3.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada MP3 Bhajans, 2 CD set
28) www.domgbc.org (Direction Of Management)
29) www.acbspn.com/ BOMBAY India
30. www.ROOPA.org (Raghunatha dasa's world economics proposal)

31) http://krsna.kgb.cz/hlavni.htm Prague Czech-devotees (english site)
32) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
33) http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm (Cyber gurukula)

A WEB SITE DEALING WITH WOMEN AND CHILDREN EXPLOITATION:
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/tocv.htm