PRAB02b.JPG (22282 bytes)
I started my movement with my books. And we shall be able to maintain everything with the sales of the books. The temples will be maintained by the book sales, and if there are no more temples, then the books shall remain." ....Letter from Srila Prabhupada to Hansadutta 8 Nov, 1973.

Haribol, Prabhus. Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! If you're interested in trading for first editions of Srila Prabhupada's books and other nectar, point your browser to http://www.JitendriyaBooks.com. In addtion to the first editions, you'll find posters, record albums, and other hard-to-find nectar, like a copy of the third BTG ever printed that you can download and copies of handbills printed in 1965 or 1966 to advertise Srila Prabhupada's lectures at the new temple in San Francisco's hippy district. Thanks! Your servant,

Jitendriya dasa

=========================

1) Dear Puranjan, Let me begin by introducing myself.

My name is ------. I am writing my PhD dissertation on the development of the Hare Krishna movement. However an overall history discussion abut the movement is also included. I wonder if you would be kind enough to write me concerning this. I find your net pages most interesting and explicit - but I need detail and facts. There are many things in your text account and experiential accounts about the movement's development that interest me. I will place three questions here to begin with. If you wish to continue conversing in more detail then please let me know.

1. Who were the homosexual-gurus in the GM?

[PADA: Some of the homosexuals were Bon and Ananta Vasudeva, but they had many gurus after the 1940s and many of them were bogus, so who knows how many they had.]

2. Can anybody verify if Prabhupad's (physical) body is in his samadhi?

[PADA: Ummm, very good question.]

3. What is the difference between ISKCON and ISKCON-inc?

[PADA: ISKCON is an ideal, the corporation is the shell? Ummm, does that help?]

==========================

2) HARINAMA WRITES

Hare Krishna Puranjana Prabhu,

I agree. All Srila Prabhupada's direct disciples should now increase their participation in devotional programs of the local ISKCON temples as the GBC are now more open to a management system from the bottom up as Srila Prabhupada ordered so many times. All direct disciples are natural members of ISKCON and have a duty to carryout their spritual master's mission.

Along with active sadhu sanga there should also be a movement to elect temple presidents who actually carry out Srila Prabhupada's institutional instructions otherwise why serve with deviants of our guru maharaja and founder acarya? The deviants are outside the parampara and a disturbance to ISKCON. This is now the top priority so far as management reform goes. This is destined to work because the present and previous deviation of GBC dictatorship is clearly a failed system, which has also been proven in the mundane world (Stalin, Hitler, Marxism, etc.)

Srila Prabhupada clearly ordered many times that all temples are to be independent financially and managed by the local congregation with no outside political interference from the GBC. See also www.domgbc.org

Harinamdas

======================

3) CHATUR BAHU WRITES

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Dear Puranjan dasa:

To what do we owe this dubious pleasure of a personal correspondence form you? Well, as you like to do we calls them as we sees them. In previous news letters of yours there was a call for some contact with the news media in India, preferably an investigative reporter as we remember. If you knew of Visnu-murti dasa, then why the open call? As if you yourself knew of no one to contact. Sounds fishy.

[PADA: Perhaps Vineet wants to stay out of this for his own reasons, ask him? We are not mind readers? The problem here is that when we do not immediately fulfill folks like yourselves desire to "get credit" for things like "cracking the poison case" and so on, then you will attack us. Same thing with Tamal, he wanted to "get more credit" from Srila Prabhupada, and when he did not get it: attack. Same thing with Sanat, he said for a few months, Puranjana you are not giving me enough credit, give me a better write-up in your newsletters. And when we did not do that, at least by his estimation, he decided "jackboots on our face." So this is why Srila Prabhupada says, "The real poison is personal ambition" (after he had been locked in a room in 1970).

And this is exactly what happened to Srila Prabhupada. Tamal and his cronies said, "Hey, we want more credit, we want to be the next gurus." And when Srila Prabhupada did not give them "enough credit," then they decided to attack him, even, to kill him. So this is the problem here. You guys want "credit" and when you do not get it, then attack. "The real poison is personal ambition."

Thus, Srila Prabhupada says, vahi bat, same thing, they wanted credit and when they do not get it, they attacked. So you now you are also saying we simply want to be the next guru. Ya think? We want to sit down in some big seat and wonder if each plate of food we get is laced with arsenic from people who will be sitting at our feet, only waiting to take over our seat? No thanks. We do not wish to be "the next big guru" and be surrounded by people like you who will bite our heads off like vicious piranhas when you do not get "the big credit" you deserve so well. And that is why Srila Prabhupada is in fact the saint he is, he could tolerate all forms of envious fools in his presence and go forward without hesitating, because he did not care if they would get rid of him "to get more credit," he was just doing his job for the Supreme Lord Krishna and he was for sure, not attached.

We are still attached, so we are not like saints who are in a position to be surrounded by the envious and go on unaffected, like Prahlad, Haridasa thakura, Srila Saraswati Thakura, Jesus, Srila Prabhupada, and so on. So you wanted credit and when we did not give it, so you joined up with the team that is glorifying the Gaudiya Matha's homosexual guru program founders and people who are saying that Kirtanananda is guru tattva, i.e. he is your idea of Jesus, like your new friends Puru/ Sanat/ Mukunda. Of course, even you just now said that people who worship pedophiles are less intelligent than meat eaters, so by your own account, you are all less intelligent than hamburger eaters since you have joined with that team that says that homosexual pedophiles are guru tattva. Srila Prabhupada wanted homosexuals to be sitting in his seat, that is what your Puru/ Sanat team is saying now, and so you now joined with them. So, less than meat eaters. Agreed.]

CB: That you did not print the letter was of no concern, Prabhupada already read it, you print or you don't print as you like.

[PADA: Well, why not ask Vineet first? Then you can tell us what he said? Why do we have to ask him in front of hundreds of people? You can ask him yourself? Why is the onus on us? We do not know how he stands on all of these issues, what his personal strategy is etc., and again, we cannot read minds. We did not print your letter because maybe that would be considered as a sign of bad faith on our part. And he might get burned out? But you guys burn all kinds of people out with your tactics, so when you are on a roll? You simply wanted the credit for getting him involed and when you did not get it, you attacked that's all. This poison case is also complex, we may not give out all of the details in public. This is foolish to think we have to publicize each and every step we are taking, and that is why your types will never solve this thing, it will be solved by others who have some level of discrimination.]

CB: But the address information was for all and any that might want to have a contact in India and was an offering on that level.

[PADA: And we told you that we had already been in touch with him and nothing substantial evolved. So, what is your complaint? We had already done what you asked for some years ago. So you are asking us to do the same thing we already did a few years back already, and when we do not do it, attack. So this means, the real poison is personal ambition.]

CB: Printing the contact with no letter attached would have been acceptable. Also if you chose to not print, it would be gentlemanly not to comment like you chose to do with our son.

[PADA: Well, you asked me to help you arrange for an illegal mariage by finding you a 12 year old girl for your 18 year old son. For starters, such a marriage is illegal. We do not want to support illegal actions, as you are so much accustomed to doing. Srila Prabhupada said, we have to follow the laws in the land we live in. So the law here is: 12 year olds cannot get married. Now suppose that marriage goes bad? And then PADA is linked to illegally helping? We already know a devotee who was sued big time, hundreds of thousands of dollars, for "arranging a marriage" that went bad. And he was working with legal adults. Why do we want to take such illegal risks? And why are you trying to force us to break the laws, then complaining that we are not willing to break the laws, after Srila Prabhupada told us: not to break the laws? Are you smarter than Srila Prabhupada? And who are you to demand that others endorse illegal acts?]

CB: Where your comments protective of this boy? Duh, no, you displayed with your rude comments no knowledge of vedic culture, you should not comment were you are out of your league.

[PADA: No, following the law is in our league.]

CB: But this is small potatoes compared to the blasphemy going on in the name of helping some children that were abused.

[PADA: Well Puru/ Sanat/ Mukunda say that "Kirtanananda is guru tattva," i.e. he is their Jesus-like guru. And he is a molester, as we all know. And now you say: you are with that team? So, you are supporting people who are saying that homosexual pedophiles are equal to Jesus (guru tattva). So, forget the past cases, you are trying make present and future cases by supporting this "homosexual pedophiles are guru tattva" team now, today. So we may have committed some errors in the past, so what, we are not saying that Kirtanananda is our idea of guru tattva --today, like your team is doing?]

CB: Firstly it was their karma to be in that place of abuse at those times that the abuse took place.

[PADA: And therefore it is the karma of the GBC that this lawsuit has started?]

CB: Not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of the Lord.

[PADA: So why criticize us? We are moving by the sanction of Krishna, as you say? You defeated your own argument. And now you are saying that there is "blasphemy"? How can there be "blasphemy" if every action is sanctioned by God? Are you saying that Windle Turley is the active agent "sanctioner" of Krishna? Or what? Even we are not going so far as to say that? No, we say that the case is the result of the abuses not being dealt with by "the devotees." So it is "the devotees" negligence that has lead to this lawsuit. But anyway, you are contradicting yourself. You are saying, you are upset with this blasphemy, then you say, this blasphemy should not upset us because: it is the will and sanction of the Lord? Make up your mind...]

CB: do you not believe this statement?

[PADA: Well why are you complaining at all then? You are saying that pada is sanctioned by God, ok, and thus all that we do is under His sanction. OK, so why are you griping about what God is sanctioning? That means you are a hypocrite. You also said that the meat eaters are smarter for not accepting homosexual gurus, then you say that the people who support homosexuals as gurus, indeed that Kirtananada is guru tattva, are your best pals? Are you saying you are less intelligent that the meat eaters? Yes you are.]

CB: That the so-called devotees treated them with such distrain is of course an other thing.

[PADA: Well, now you just shot your "sanctioned by God" theory to pieces by yourself, you are contradicting your own theory.]

CB: The perpetrators of this heinous abuse must pay the price now and in the future. No acts go unrewarded or unpunished. and if we can help, then so be it.

[PADA: Are you saying: God sanctions heinous things? You are really confusing us here? Anyway, so why not you great kshatriya guys get together and make your own lawsuit? And then get some of the kulis to work with your suit? Why are you just griping about the suit filed by Windle Turley? There are ten million other lawyers out there, go hire one yourselves, and get on with your own case already? What are you waiting for? The kulis to get to be 420 years old? What is your problem? Some kulis got their own case together. Why? Because waiting for you to act is like waiting for winter snow to fall in the Bahamas, and they know it. You cannot protect them like a kshatriya, and you have not, and you are not, and they know it.]

CB: Those that carried on such abuse and their cheerleader supporters (were you a supporter at sometime)? Will not get away with what has taken place. We may want to use violence against them but it is not our time, place and circumstances. Neither is it anyone else's out side of the law of the land, at this time, save and except Krsna himself.

[PADA: Ummm, what? Now you are saying we should follow the laws, well 12 year olds getting married is illegal. Make up your mind...]

CB: Unlike most of you recent converts we were speaking out against these APA-ISKCON people sense 74. Were you? We lost our first wife in late 76 do to our big mouth. We never supported any of this demoniac behavior in the guise of devotional service, from day one, hour one, the first five minutes. What about you? How did you achieve any acceptance in ISKCON if not by compliance at some time? You were surely guilty of conspiracy if you at all supported any vani poisoning in any form. Let he who is without the original sin of accepting poison vani cast the first stone. You are all guilty of compliance and silence in the face of the enemy of poison vani.

[PADA: Well, you guys throw stones all over the map. You say the Gaudiya Matha is bogus, then you say their biggest spokesman is your new person to cite as your authority and so on. We never heard about your speaking up? Srila Prabhupada said we have to write, that is the more effective path. Anyway, if you were criticizing the GBC, that is good. Bravo.]

CB: As far as Mr. Mukunda dasa and that rabble-rouser Sanat dasa go I like the way they write and from their letters they are my kind of men.

[PADA: Yes, and they support Puru, the biggest spokesman for the homosexual guru lineage of the Gaudiya Matha. And Puru also says that Kirtanananda is his idea of guru tattva. More homosexual gurus. So this Sanat was saying all along that Kirtananada is his idea of Jesus like saints, and now he has simply gone back to that position, that's all. Punar miska bhava, he tried to make some show bottle that he was defending Srila Prabhupada, but he only wants "credit." And he admitted to that. And when he did not get it, then his real position came out, he was always still linked to his Gaudiya Matha roots of "homosexuals are gurus" idea. He was never convinced of our idea, so he reveals that he is still a big fan of the Gaudiya Matha and even Kirtanananda. So, your team has not truly been critical of the GBC, rather you are still supporting their "homosexual pedophiles are guru tattva idea," as your team still supports TODAY. You say you like that team, despite that they support the homosexual guru lineage of the 1936 and 1977 eras? So you are are all the same minded men, you say, good, all homosexual pedophile guru lineage supporters should be known.]

CB: However, if now or in the future I see them write something that is in support of APA-ISKCON, we will have no more hesitation than we are with you to speak out against that mentality.

[PADA: Well, Sanat/ Mukunda have been sending out all kinds of stuff from this Puru fellow already, and they even complained that pada is against the Gaudiya Matha's gurus like Sridhara and Narayana, and that we are "too critical" of their nice gentlemanly God Brother Kirtanananda. They wrote in their letters that Kirtananada is a nice God brother, a gentleman, and a person who should not be criticized because we do not want to disturb his disciples (because he is a diksha guru like Jesus) and etc. Puru even says he does not want to disturb guru tattva, i.e. homosexuals are like Jesus to these fools, and you endorse them? So you are not paying attention perhaps. Either that, or you know they support this "Kirtanananda is guru tattva" idea and you are with them on this point. Either that or you have certainly confused a lot of us.]

CB: We are our own man, surrendered as much as possible at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada. We have been a group of one for twenty-seven years and are not impressed with an obvious jugglery of words to suite some private agenda. The Gurukula people should wake up and smell the roses.

[PADA: Then you should help the kulis instead of supporting Sanat, who says we should chop these children up and kill them. That is not helping, rather that is convincing some of the kulis to attack all the more. Your technique is making the whole case more ugly, more polarized, and in sum you are making these kids more angry, aggressive, defensive and so on. And it seems that is your desire, you want them to get more uspet and make the case more bombastic and so on?]

CB: We and our wife were also barbarically mistreated in our child hoods and we put all the blame for what happened to us on the perpetrators, our own parents, mother in my case, father in my wife's case. Yet healing did not begin until we read Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-Gita in early 74.

[PADA: OK, so then that means you should preach nicely to the kulis? Show them some love, as Srila Prabhupada showed you some love. That is what helps, as you admit. So why are you endorsing their "boots on face" death threats to these kulis from Sanat/ Mukunda? Did Srila Prabhupada convince you by "boots in your face"? Or by his love and help to you? So, why are you thinking this "boots on the face of children" is effective? Did it convince you of anything? No, you resented it. This technique does not work with abused people, or anyone else. People do not like to be oppressed into forced acceptance. No, your team is trying to make these kids get more upset so the case will get even more distorted against ISKCON.]

CB: For our wife, when she married me. Karma was a very big lessen for us. We are all responsible for everything that happens to us, the good and bad comes from our own past activities and not someone else's.

[PADA: Well maybe, but if a person is killed he may not have had the karma to be killed? This is called new layers and branches of karma. Certainly, Srila Prabhupada did not have the karma to be killed, but he was poisoned, so that means new and fresh karma is always starting as well...]

CB: Is it anyone's fault except our own doing that we wear glasses? Our mother didn't wear glasses, so what about me? We do not like glasses but here they are on our face and there they stay for the purpose of utility. Karma. OK, so this example is minimal to say the least but the point should be understood. Karma. No devotee should enthusiastically impose pain on an innocent, let alone Krsna's devotee children. We have a choice, it is called free will.

[PADA: Yes, and many of the devotees neglected to help these children? And many failed to help Sulochana and us get these bums out a long time ago? They chose not to help. They chose not to make a lawsuit either, and so it ended up with Turley. This is the karma of the devotee's group negligence.]

CB: To act righteously according to the reveled scripture or to be an adverse, grotesque demon in character is always our own personal discussion. You and all the rest were following these demon people from the beginning.

[PADA: What? We never like Tamal from square one, day one, 1971, and we never did subsequently. We served Srila Prabhupada and --tolerated-- some of these bums for his sake, just like he tolerated them. We "served" the demons so to speak, to keep Srila Prabhupada's mission going. That is because he had placed these guys in posts of authority. But in 1973, I met privately with Srila Prabhupada and told him that the then GBC for England, Shyamsundara, was a goof. And Srila Prabhupada agreed with me and he told me I did not have to follow the GBC.]

CB: And now you are standing next to the abused children as a mentor?

[PADA: We did risk our lives to get the homosexual pedophile guru lineage halted. And some of these ex-children know we did that. And they have told us that they wished more people were doing what we were doing, it would have helped them tremendously. So we are "mentors" in the sense that we fought the corrupt regime that was brutalizing them, but we are not seeking compensation from these children, or a big post in their organizations as their next big mentor and so on, rather we just tried to help, and we did that to some extent.]

CB: Oh boy, these kids are stupider than we thought.

[PADA: Well, they are not stupid, they are victims of false propaganda.]

CB: Even though no innocent person should be abused, it happens. It should never have happened in ISKCON, not even in the most demoniac of dreams. Where were you in the early days of Dallas? Supporting the local bogus personality in the guise of an advanced disciple?

[PADA: We were ordered by Srila Prabhupada to stay in England and do the Spiritual Sky business, and we tried to follow his orders. And we gave thousands of pounds to the temple there, and we gave $19,000 to purchase the silver Srighsanas for the deities. There were no gurukulas in England at that time. In 1977 we moved out of the ISKCON compound due to friction with Jayatirtha, and we moved way up to Newcastle upon tyne. Later, they kicked us out formally.]

CB: This law suit is out of proportion, we are also the product of abuse in ISKCON. Is anyone running to our aid with an offer of ksatriya service?

[PADA: Well, kshatriyas should have protected these children? They were not doing their job. So what can be offered now, people have no faith in the whole kshatriya process since it is proven unworkable as it stands... This also occured with Arjuna, a brahmana said if you cannot protect me you are not a kshatriya...]

CB: Even a small village? No, he is a psychotic, is all you and Dravinaksa can muster.

[PADA: Well, you are supporting psychotics, so....]

CB: Ever Mahananda in support of Nanda dasi was more eloquent, but careful to separate himself from accepting a grotesquely fallen standard of chastity. Thank you, Hare Krsna Caturbahu dasa Bhakti

[PADA: You have no chastity at all. You run off the the Gaudiya Matha and Kirtanananda's camp when you need some new allies to attack us. You have no idea what is the basic loyalty of a dog. And your team is also saying that Kirtanananda is like your guru tattva Jesus, so you have no common sense even. Do we want to be the next guru in this situation, to be surrounded by people like you who might help us, ...or kill us in any instant? Neine danke. We are not that level of these great and tolerant saints, nor are we going to become so any time soon.

thanks pd]

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

NEW SITE: http://members.tripod.com/gurupoison (Tamal indictment)

* http://www.egroups.com/group/Vaisnavacouncil (Visoka cyber istagosthi)
* http://www.govinda.net (first editions of S.P. books)
* http://www.krsna.tv (underground Hare Krishna web site)
* http://www.JitendriyaBooks.com

*Book For Sale "Someone Has Poisoned Me," You can get it from: New Jaipur Press/ POB 208/ Mayodan NC 27027 $10.00 requested donation

* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* MONTREAL, Canada, Hasti Gopala Dasa (for details write to: hasti90@hotmail.com)

* BERKELEY California. Hare Krishna Youth, 510-389-3346 conducts regular harinam parties, arotikes, cooking classes, college preaching, Prabhupada video nights, and so on.

* NEW YORK "Prabhupada Sankirtana Society" Headquarters 48 Ave. B NY, NY 10009 (212) 674-0680, PSS108@juno.com

01) http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ pada newsletter archive
02) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 Poison tape

03) Poison tape transcript:
03) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
04) http://www.winink.com/tkg/ Poison whispers
05) www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site
06) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html Puranjana's Site
07) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc GBC expose
08) http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html French site
09) http://members.aol.com/gauridas Gauridasa's site
10) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ Rocana's site
11) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm Poison issue
12) www.harekrsna.de "Hare Krsna Homepage" (German)
13) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/ ISKCON Reform (German)
14) German translation of Final Order (pdf)
14) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/final.htm
15) http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ (German Expose)
16) http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
17) http://www.surrealist.org/gurukula/ Nandini's history site
19) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/ GBC
20) "illicit sex guru" rationalizations:
20) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/iskcon/right.htm
21) http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm Appointment tape fraud
22) http://www.asitis.com Original Bhagavad-gita As It Is
23) http://krsnabook.com Original Krsna Book
24) http://www.krishna.org Prabhupada Hare Krishna News Network
25) http://folio.bhaktivedanta.org S.P. Folio Infobase CD-ROM
26) http://realaudio.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada RealAudio Archive
27) http://mp3.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada MP3 Bhajans, 2 CD set
28) www.domgbc.org (Direction Of Management)
29) www.acbspn.com/ BOMBAY India
30. www.ROOPA.org (Raghunatha dasa's world economics proposal)

31) http://krsna.kgb.cz/hlavni.htm Prague Czech-devotees (english site)
32) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
33) http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm (Cyber gurukula)

A WEB SITE DEALING WITH WOMEN AND CHILDREN EXPLOITATION:
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/tocv.htm