RE: Gaudiya Matha clone says Srila Prabhupada is dead and gone...
Dear Paranjan PAMHO all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
It sure is sad, as we say in Canada that some people just can't figure it out,
eh. It's actually quite enlivening to hear the non believers go on saying that
Srila Prabhupada is dead. What? you say. Yup, cause ya see this puts them onto
the cupboard shelf with all the atheists and anarchists, easy to hear and see
and just as easy to close up when the time comes. Notice they'er never on the
table being usefull, poor souls like that only get a short time to show their
stuff and then they are back on the shelf till garage sale day, then marked as
"dead and gone". We will never change in our follwowing that the guru
is living as even millions of people understand that Christ is living. So all
you GBC Dead Heads can keep on dying like your gurus while we'll keep living like
ours. Srila Prabhupada is not your guru so piss off! His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Prabhupada lives forever in his books and his followers live with him.
YS Hasti Gopala Dasa
================================
1) JAYA RADHE DD
Dear Visoka prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, who has caused nectar to flow from your lips. I very much appreciate your words about not all of us being fighters, as well as your comment in a later post that you tend to talk philosophy rather than people. My comments here are meant in no way to demean the efforts of my brothers amd sisters who have made it their duty to uncover the truth, nor do I question their sincerity, and I beg forgiveness of anyone who may be offended by the concerns I express here. If I am also repeating the words of anyone who has also written in response to you, that is because I am behind in reading the more recent posts on this forum. While the unearthing of unpalatable truths may often by part of the process of correcting wrongs and creating means to prevent future misdeeds and misunderstandings, it is also important to consider when enough is enough.
[PADA: That all depends? Our idea all along is that we have to worship the pure devotees, who are on the "raganuga bhakti" platform. Whereas (1) the post-1977 GBC, (2) Various Gaudiya Matha types (whom Srila Prabhupada says created their own relativised and even homosexual gurus), (3) Those who supported and encouraged the post-1977 GBC, (4) Indeed the smartas, sahajiyas and the Catholic church's papal systems, et al., they have all created relativised, conditioned soul "gurus" whom are not at all nectar to us --nor to anyone else? What is thus "nectar" to us is establishing the exclusive worship of the bona fide raganuga prabhu, Srila Prabhupada. And "enough is enough" when this is understood, established and followed widely, as yet, not the case? Besides, Srila Prabhupada himself had to keep saying, "You are not this body," ad infinitum. Why? Because people were not getting it. So "enough is enough," sure, when it is established, accepted and realized widely.]
JRD: When does all this nitty gritty stuff become obsessive?
[PADA: Well, we've had to move on from one nitty gritty item to the next, for example: in 1979 the bogus appointment, in the early 1980s the homosexual pooja, and after 1997 to the poison issue and so on. We had to move progressively, as this is how the evidence became apparent and was built up enough to become a 'cause celebre.' If we had the proper evidences and testimony eariler we could have processed all of that way back many years ago, but some folks are only just now opening up with certain testimony. This is mainly because they are not as fearful now as they were a few years ago. For example, we only just got the poison audio tapes in 1997 by a devotee who was afraid to even be seen talking to us. He was afraid to speak up and he still is. So that is why this is all like slowly squeezing the toothpaste out, because that is how the evidence and testimony has evolved. That is perhaps not the fault of the detectives, rather that is the fault of the reluctant witnesses?
Besides, had we brought some of these items up earlier, without better backing, then the ideas would not have been accepted. These ideas are only accepted once there is sufficient evidences, testimony and so on, all of which has taken years to build up. It is just like taking on a criminal case, we cannot just say, "They are guilty," we need proofs, quotes, testimony, evidences and so on. And even then there are some who will still not accept despite all of that. For example, initially Narayana Maharaja was angry as fire with pada for our pointing out the poison complaint which he said was false and a major aparadha to even bring up. Then later, as our evidence was made clear to him, he reluctantly had to agree that we were correct and moreover both he and his followers began to say that the GBC would try to poison him. So this is a slow process because many people like this have had to switch from saying these GBC are gurus to saying: these GBC are evil, and as we see they are reluctant to make that switch for various reasons.
Still we have to pursue the truth, and since we believe that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, and now even the foot dragging sector is agreeing gradually, then what we are saying is: he was essentially crucified like Jesus was, albeit by a different tactic. This is not some light insignificant item, nor is it something odious to be avoided, nor is this some nitty gritty topic to be bandied about and then abandoned when it is no longer nectar or etc.? Besides, this is "nectar" for some of us just like pulling out Dusasana's heart and drinking the blood was nectar for Bhima, and he is a pure devotee. And Krishna does much more broader violent things than that in battle, He is rather slicing up millions of opponents to pieces at one time. So that is also nectar. Srila Prabhupada says there is no difference between Krishna sporting with the gopis and His killing the demons, because this is all nectar, it is all absolute.
Of course "not to pursue these things" is why we have all "the troubles" in the first place. If 2000 people show up everyday to keep the New York sewer running, suppose only 5 showed up, simultaneously, some rascals tried to block the system? Well the 5 would have an overwhelming job, for sure, but so what, they would later get a big medal from the city Mayor for trying to save the city from drowning in this vile evil. So this cleaning the sewer, it is not nectar, maybe, but if we are cleaning the sewer for Almighty God, the biggest boss of all bosses, the master of the universe, the Lord of the cosmos, the biggest of this big shots, the strongest of the strong, the mightiest of the mighty, and what to speak of the coolest guy around, well, who cares if He gives us the job to unstop the sewer? That is not up to us to decide? He give service as He sees fit and we cannot argue that this is a nasty job as Arjuna tried to argue. No we must accept and do the service.
We just have to do our job that's all, and the big boss will give us a good benefits plan. And since the GBC sat down and plotted this for years together, we have had to unravel it systematically for years together, so what? We are unravelling it, that is the point. And we will eventually expose their whole plot up to and including poisoning, all accross the board they will be exposed. And Srila Prabhupada will be more glorified since he preached to the envious demons, and he is like Jesus, he did not care if the demons killed him. That too, because he is also working for the big boss, so this example is important for us and that is why he chose to go on without any attachment for personal safety etc.... This is for US to learn how to be unattached in our service.]
JRD: How much of it is useful to know, and how effective are we in using this knowledge? When does it overshadow the pure straight nectar of guru, sadhu, and sastra? With all sincerity I concern myself over the consciousness of my dear Godbrothers who have taken on this "dirty work", for I hope that their absorption in the more sublime truths as given by our spiritual father far outweighs their time spent in these other matters.
[PADA: Well if Jesus had been crucified 2000 years ago and somehow the story had been hidden, and somehow new modern evidence supported that this is what occured, then all Christians worldwide would support and encourage that being investigated and they would consider this quite sublime as well. And indeed they would suspect anyone who poured cold water on such an investigation as being insincere? For example some of the devotees who are working on the poison case immediately suspected Mukunda when he tried to block us from pursuing the poison case, that he was secretly in league with some of the present or past GBC, and sure enough as time unfolded, he was supporting Kirtananda's agenda behind the scenes, just as our associates suspected.]
JRD: Ksatriyas need nourishment the same as everyone else, and do need to rest a the end of the day. On a more personal note, I do not want to become suspicious of so many devotees based on past, misunderstandings which were quite rampant during a certain era of ISKCON's history (and which cntinue).
[PADA: Well you sort of answered your own point, there are still major mis-conceptions, so we need to rout them out still?]
JRD: It discourages me to constantly hear these things.
[PADA: Ummm, what things? Please be specific?]
JRD: On another forum I mentioned a wonderful little book by Drutakarma (Michael Cremo), divine Nature, and was then barraged with numerous posts by a devotee who sought to discredit him based on some differences regarding the matter of the jiva's origins, which would in now way have refuted the points about spiritual environmentalism as given thorughout the book in essays and interviews with devotees.
[PADA: Well, "the origin of the soul" is an important topic? And Srila Prabhupada says we all saw Krishna face to face, we originated in Krishna's lila or sport etc., and then along comes folks like Gaura Govinda Maharaja who says that Srila Prabhupada was just preaching like that to pacify the hippies? GGM says we all originated in the brahmajyoti? Mayavada idea. Ummm, what? No, that is not our siddhanta, and this is not some temporary fill-in fix for hippies in 1967? In any case, we asked Drutakarma to sign a document that homosexual pedophiles are not Krishna's successors and he instead got totally very angry with us that we even mentioned this point and he completely refused to sign such a document. He referred us to Svavasa, and Svavasa also refused to sign such a document. And now these same people are wondering why there is a huge homosexual molester lawsuit?]
JRD: This is just one example, but I am so often hit with criticisms about
this devotee or that, that I am almsot afraid to glorify anyone's service for
fear of then having to hear how, according to someone else's version, that devotee
is nonglorious. I would prefer to be a little blind when it comes to certain details
about a person, would prefer to focus on what he or she is offering. This is not
to be confused with turning a blind eye to serious infractions and misbehaviour.
I am simply saying that why does everything have to be so complicated anymore?
your servant, Jayaraadhe dasi
[PADA: Well it is not at all complicated. Homosexuals are not God's successors and any idiot off the street would immediately sign a document agreeing with this point. The deviants are the ones who are complicating the issues, not us. Thanks pd]
===========================
2) OFFICIATING ACHARYAS (Locanananda)
There is an interesting description in the Caitanya Caritamrita of the initiation of Raghunath das. While he was living at home, he was officially initiated by Yadunandana Acarya, a great devotee in his own right, but then he left home and travelled to Puri where he took shelter of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Srila Prabhupada refers to Yadunandana Acarya as the "official initiator spiritual master" of Raghunath dasa. The comparison can be made in Iskcon to a devotee who is accepted by an officiating acarya, but is taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada used to criticize the Christian religion, not because they were praying to Jesus, but because the leaders were not authorized representatives of God. The acarya is the representative of God, and the officiating acarya is the authorized representative of the acarya.
If one is authorized, it means he becomes empowered, just as when Srila Prabhupada initially authorized Revatinandana and Kirtanananda Swamis to chant on beads, he told them he was empowering them to assist him. He made it clear that these were still his disciples. Even when Srila Prabhupada sent out the letter of July 9th, 1977 he made it clear that those being initiated were still his disciples.
One should note that when Srila Prabhupada called the GBC to his side in May, 1977 he was very ill and wanted to give instruction with regard to how Iskcon would be managed after his departure. It was at this time that he mentioned the term "officiating acarya". As stated before, one cannot accept disciples in the presence of one's guru and, similarly, one does not accept the title of acarya while one's guru is living. Therefore, the term "officiating acarya" would only have been introduced after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada, while the term ritvik - representative could be used in his presence.
During Srila Prabhupada's grave illness in the spring of 1977, no initiations were being performed. When he began to recover he decided that his aspiring disciples should not have to wait any longer to be initiated and it was at that time that he prepared a list of ritvik representatives who would initiate on his behalf. They would accept the disciples on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, chant on their beads, give spiritual names and send those names to be included in the book listing Srila Prabhupada's disciples. This system was especially practical for many reasons. It avoided the need to send beads through the mail, it avoided the duplication of names in the same zone, but mainly it relieved Srila Prabhupada of the burden of handling this responsibility so that he could conserve his strength and utilize his valuable time for writing.
During the months that followed, Srila Prabhupada's health was up and down. Doctors were consulted (as were astrologers) and their conclusion was that Srila Prabhupada might continue to live for six or seven years if he could pass through that difficult period. This is important to know when considering the instructions he gave concerning initiations, because the system of having initiations peformed on his behalf was meant to continue as long as Srila Prabhupada wanted it to under the prevailing conditions, which could have meant several years or even longer.
His Divine Grace departed this world but he lives still in his instructions. The instruction he gave concerning initiations was that the ritvik system would continue with only small changes in formalities. It was his recommendation that the term "officiating acarya" would be applied, and that those initiated would be known as his granddisciples. That the official initiator must be present and identifiable is in keeping with the statements of scripture and has been followed by all previous acaryas in all bonafide sampradayas.
The departed vaisnava acarya is considered to have entered nitya lila pravistha, and the eternal abode of Radha and Krishna. Though he may be transcendentally present to offer his unlimited blessings, he is not considered to be accepting new disciples in the formal sense. Because the process of diksa includes the formalities of initiation, he cannot be properly referred to as the diksa guru of disciples formally initiated after his physical departure. However, and more significantly, Srila Prabhupada is the preceptor of all generations of devotees who follow his teachings and, within Iskcon, the only worshippable guru. Just as Krishna is known throughout the world as the spiritual master of Arjuna, Srila Prabhupada is the spiritual master of all present and future followers of his transcendental teachings. Because initiation is a formality, the official initiator is not as significant as the true deliverer, and that is Srila Prabhupada.
There is no difference between a direct disciple and a granddisciple in the sense that both associate with the founder acarya preceptorially and live according to his rules and regulations. Because the May 28th discussion dealt only with how Iskcon would be perpetuated after the disappearance of the spiritual master, any reference to his granddisciples must apply within Iskcon, not that granddisciples would exist only when his own disciple would initiate outside of Iskcon. Srila Prabhupada's instruction was that we should never be without Iskcon thought even for a moment, so there was no indication that he was advising anyone to leave the society of devotees.
"As I am puppet of my Guru Maharaja, if you become my puppet, then that is success. Our success is there when we become puppet of the predecessor. To live in the society of devotees and to become puppet of the predecessor acarya, that is success. So we are trying to do that. Krishna consciousness society and serve the predecessor. That's all." (Conversation 4-19-73)
The order is to serve the predecessor, to become the puppet of the predecessor. That means to worship the predecessor and to live according to his rules and regulations. No order was given that the official initiator, or officiating acarya, was to become the object of worship.
For an institution to function properly, there must be one head. In the case of a spiritual institution, there can only be one absolute authority. Srila Prabhupada had aleady established a chain of authority, and he made no mention of restructuring it before he ended his pastimes with us. Therefore, any changes he would have approved in terms of initiation procedures could only have been in regard to formalities and not in the spirit of the system which was meant to always keep Srila Prabhupada in the center. Again, this is only the point of view of one conditioned soul, but I hope that this presentation will lead to further realizations that our readers will in turn share with this humble servant.
Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
Locanananda dasa
SITES
TO CHECK OUT:
NEW
SITE: http://members.tripod.com/gurupoison
(Tamal indictment)
*
pada's alternative email: angel108b@yahoo.com
* pada's new pager number is 707-973-0372
* press in your number then press pound, and pray that it works.
* Book For Sale "Someone Has Poisoned Me," You can get it from: New
Jaipur Press/ POB 208/ Mayodan NC 27027 $10.00 requested donation
* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com
* MONTREAL, Canada, Hasti Gopala Dasa (for details write to: hasti90@hotmail.com)
* BERKELEY California. Hare Krishna Youth, 510-389-3346 conducts regular harinam
parties, arotikes, cooking classes, college preaching, Prabhupada video nights,
and so on.
* NEW YORK "Prabhupada Sankirtana Society" Headquarters 48 Ave. B NY,
NY 10009 (212) 674-0680, PSS108@juno.com
01) http://members.tripod.com/gurupoison
(Tamal indictment)
02) http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/
pada newsletter archive
03) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933
Poison tape
04) Poison tape transcript:
04) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
05) http://www.winink.com/tkg/
Poison whispers
06)
http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm
Poison issue
07)
http://www.egroups.com/group/Vaisnavacouncil
(Visoka cyber istagosthi)
08)
http://www.krsna.tv (underground
Hare Krishna web site)
09) www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site
10) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html
Puranjana's Site
11) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc
GBC expose
12) http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html
French site
13) http://members.aol.com/gauridas
Gauridasa's site
14) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/
Rocana's site
15) www.harekrsna.de
"Hare Krsna Homepage" (German)
16) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/
ISKCON Reform (German)
17) German translation of Final Order (pdf)
17) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/final.htm
18) http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/
(German Expose)
19) http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg
Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
20) http://www.surrealist.org/gurukula/
Nandini's history site
21) http://www.krishnabooks.org
Guptas KBI Books (he is a cheat)
22) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/
GBC
23) "illicit sex
guru" rationalizations:
23) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/iskcon/right.htm
24) http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm
Appointment tape fraud
25) http://www.asitis.com
Original Bhagavad-gita As It Is
26) http://krsnabook.com
Original Krsna Book
27) http://www.krishna.org
Prabhupada Hare Krishna News Network
28) http://folio.bhaktivedanta.org
S.P. Folio Infobase CD-ROM
29) http://realaudio.bhaktivedanta.org
Prabhupada RealAudio Archive
30) http://mp3.bhaktivedanta.org
Prabhupada MP3 Bhajans, 2 CD set
31) www.domgbc.org
(Direction Of Management)
32) www.acbspn.com/ Prabhupada
Network
33) www.ROOPA.org
(Raghunatha dasa's world economics proposal)
34)
http://www.prabhupada.com/
BBT archives site
35)
http://www.govinda.net (first
editions of S.P. books)
36) http://www.JitendriyaBooks.com
Trading original SP. books
37) http://krsna.kgb.cz/hlavni.htm
Prague Czech-devotees (english site)
38) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
39) http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm (Cyber gurukula)