WELCOME!

Dear Puranjana -- Obeisances All glories to Srila Prahupada
I wanted to invite all assembled readers to our annual Gaura Purnima festival on March 9th at 5:00 PM. There are many devotees wandering around this huge country called America and if by chance, they are looking for a place to go for Gaura Purnima-then by all means do come to our gathering. Address is 8805 Harrison Road Sedro Woolley, Wa. This is just about an hours drive north of Seattle, Wa. Our phone number is 360-856-5411 The chanting is always ecstatic, enthusiastic, and filled with Bhakti. And of course, the prasadam, is legendary .......come one come all .......Hare Krsna your servant, .............. Damaghosa das

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Dear Paranjan Prabhu PAMHO all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I just had to comment on this one from your last e mail. The title itself says volumes when we remember the whole homosex business in ISKCON. However Hrydynanda, Satsvarupa, Jayapataka and Tamal have fallen down, it's just that their bodies haven't hit the ground yet.

YS Hasti Gopala Dasa

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1) Naranarayana (NNV) dasa mystery?

(a) NNV says that the Gaudiya Matha deviants may have helped Tamal poison Srila Prabhupada (ok maybe) (b) NNV says that Kirtanananda inspires people to beat up women (ok fer sure), yet now NNV says (c) That Sanat, who is working with Puru, biggest cheerleader "groupie" of both groups (a) and (b) is a "brilliant mind." How yummy fied. Seems to confirm our earlier statements that these type of bad apples are always glorifying each other, as Kamsa and his cronies are prone to doing. Are we not all brilliant minded? We are working with the Gaudiya Matha's founder fathers of homosexual pedophile pooja, simultaneously, we are moaning and groaning about a molester lawsuit? And we still are supporting the cheerleaders of that agenda? And this is brilliant?

By the way, pada talked to our self described shyster lawyer friend recently and he said that NNV's idea of suing the victims of molesting, for their harming the reputation of the institution, is plain and simple stupid: you have to sue the persons who were in charge? Oh duh! For example, the Catholic Church never sues the victims of molesting for their speaking ill of the Church, just because for starters it makes you look like an evil tyrant and molester sympathizer? No. Rather the criminally neglectful leaders are the ones who caused all the problems, the molesting, the subsequent bad reputation to the institution and so on, and as such they are the primary culprits, and SO, they should be sued. Whereas suing the victims would make you look very mean and not too bright, and that means you are still unable to target the cause of the molesting. No duh? NNV has it completely reversed, he says no, we should sue the victims? Ummm, more brilliance? Why? Well his self described good pal Svavasa refuses to sign a document that people like Jesus are not homosexual pedophiles, so we cannot sue more of NNV's "brilliant" associates like that! As the good Queen said, let them eat cake, ooops, just before the palace was stormed. ys pd

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2) DIKSHA (pada)

Further considerations of diksha is that the primary component is the (di) divyyam jnanam, because it is by getting a higher realization that one discontinues sinful acts, and is freed from sinful acts thereby. Simultaneously, one is instructed to chant the holy names, read shastra, engage in Krishna seva and so on which also nullifies sins. It is not like the guru is some big sponge who absorbs sins, although he does also absorb sins on certain levels, but that is not the primary function of diskha.

Therefore Srila Prabhupada said that the main component is the knowledge from the guru, the divyam jnanam, and as such he would never die, he would live on in his books as this is the primary component of the diksha, his words or vani. And he also said that the body or vapuh seva is not too important, since some of his big important God brothers had vapuh seva with Srila Saraswati, nonetheless they misunderstood his vani or instructions. That means the vani seva is the primary element, and the absorbing of sins will follow like a shadow.

Also the sincerity of the aspirant sisya is important, whether the diksha can take hold. And that is why even many regular Christians have beaten some big GBC leaders so badly, by their having more advanced behaviors, they are more sincere and as such they are able to take the guidance from Jesus and avoid the major potholes that our big sannyasa and renunciate alleged guru brethren seem to step in over and over again. Sin cere means those statues that were made of pure marble and not those that had mistakes patched with clay, so the sincere are those without this tinge of personal motives that ruins the item. So as such, a sincere Christian or any religious practicioner can beat the insincere, as the internal heart is more a question of pure motive, and this is detected by the Lord.

In any event, the primary aspect of the diksha giving process is getting the divyam jnanam, namely the books of Srila Prabhupada. And this is the method that made thousands of devotees, they accepted the divyam jnana by reading the books, although they never met the author in person or rarely so. And this was the process devised by the acharya and he wanted it to continue.

Thanks, puranjana dasa

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Hare Krsna Locanananda,
Thank you for the presentation of your understanding.
This helps me comprehend how the two concepts can get in sync.

The concept that Srila Prabhupada is the ultimate authority in all of the institution's affairs (short term and long term) and the one being that the officiating acarya has the same rights and responsibilities of the full-fledged spiritual master.

[PADA: No, the (ritvik, representative, agent, deputy or) priest is not Jesus. Nor does he have the right to pose as a pure devotee, acharya or as someone like Jesus. And if he does, then according to the Sri Isopanisad and numerous similar warnings he is "the most dangerous element in human society" who is "headed for the most obnoxious regions in the universe." In sum, these two items cannot be juxtaposed. This is also the defect of the post 1936 guru imitation, as well as the post 1977 GBC, they assumed that "the representative" should have the same acharya-like nomenclatures, rights, and what to speak of same big seat, big house, big car, big pooja, etc. No, the worker in the bank does not own the bank, nor the money in the bank, as as soon as he exploits that, he is a criminal. And he is going to jail, as are his assistants...]

PD: The difference is that the latter is obeying the set of rules established by the acarya as far as the mission is concerned.

[PADA: Yes, the "rules and regulated" devotee is called a sadhaka and he is not the pure parisad devotee, and thus he cannot take up the role of the parisad. In sum the priest has to follow the rules established by the guru. And the rule of law established by the acharyas is that the GBC man is: fallible, replaceable, temporary, and indeed he may deviate in the extreme and so on.]

PD: Otherwise, he also has his own disciples for whom he must be perfect.

[PADA: No, the "Nectar of Instruction" and many other citations state that the guru must be an uttama devotee first, otherwise if he artificially takes disciples he "WILL (it is inevitable) eventually become degraded" as NOI states, and as we see it daily practically. A person who is becoming degraded --having disciples-- means the disciples may degrade as well. And for example, then we may have a whole bunch of crooks, molesters, and deviants congregating in some temples. This occured in Berkeley where a Berkeley police city record of 75 felony arrests were made in less than 18 months by simply "parking a patrol car in front of the Hare Krishna temple." The disciples were like their guru, criminals, as: 'you become what you worship.' That is why we have to worship the pure devotee exclusively, as is known to any Christian even. The proper and pure bhakti lata beeja comes from the pure devotee, whereas the homosexual beeja, criminal beeja and so on comes from the impure devotees, as we have all seen.]

PD: Unlike Srila Prabhupada who had received a particular mission from his guru maharaja, we have been asked to simply maintain what he has manifested and work in cooperation to acheive that end. To simply be his honorable representatives is the perfection of our lives.

[PADA: This is good.]

PD: For a while, the idea conveyed by the rtvik concept has been that he doesn't have what it takes to perpetuate the parampara because he avoids the responsibility of being the guru of those who get initiated during the ceremony he officiates.

[PADA: This was the identical argument forward in 1936, "Unless Ananta Vasudeva is accepted as the next acharya you are saying that Srila Saraswati Thakura had no potency to make a successive pure devotee." This is an irrelevant argument. The pure devotee arranged for a Governing Body system, and they disobeyed his order, so they are not pure rather they are deviated. If he ordered that from now on we have to wear beach sandals at all times, then that is the order, and to disobey the order means we are a deviant, that's all. We will never become pure if we violate the orders, and the order is: to create a GBC and continue the worship of the pure devotee, and to not thus give the guru wanna-be beeja, deviant beeja, homosexual beeja, criminal beeja, and so on. This also occured in the post 1936 Gaudiya Matha, Ananta Vasudeva was a homosexual and so by worship of homosexuals more homosexuals came to that mission, and so the homosexual beeja grew that weed bigger and bigger, and in ISKCON the same thing, one boy told me he became a homosexual because he was trained that way in the gurukula, so he got the same homosexual beeja as well...]

PD: In this view, the rtvik is some kind of remote control for Srila Prabhupada who would be operating from another world. Am I missing something?

Your servant, Praghosa dasa.

[PADA: Well, you are in many ways remote controlled by the pure devotee if you follow his orders, and if you deviate, then you are operating on the platform of mental speculation and deviations. And in fact, you may become so degraded by violating the order that you will maybe end up worshipping child molesters, all due to turning away from the actual order, and as occured in 1936 and 1977 false guru lineages. So yes we can be operated from by another world if we follow the orders of the people in that world, but if we make up our own rules and operate on that, we are lost.
Thanks, puranjana dasa]

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Dear Puranjana Prabhu,

You have made a strong case about the representative of God absorbing the sinful reactions of the sincere follower.

[PADA: And Dhamaghosa presented some of them. Also Srila Prabhupada said that we neophytes should not allow others to touch our feet because we will absorb some of their sins and we'd become very sick, just as some of the Gaudiya Matha gurus and GBC gurus have had long chronic and mysterious illnesses.]

LD: My previous comment, of course, was in reference to the modern Christians who commit all kinds of abominable sinful acts on the plea that Jesus will forgive them and nullify their reactions as long as they accept him as their saviour.

[PADA: Agreed, that is where Srila Prabhupada uses the word contract negatively, it is not a contract to take the sins. That means the pure devotee can take the sins but he is not obligated, the follower has to act properly.]

LD: Actually, there is no difference between a pure Christian and a sincere devotee of Krishna. But where is that pure Christian who is sincerely following the teachings of Jesus Christ today?

[PADA: That is missing the point, the point is that Jesus can and does still take the sins even today since he is still the guru for the Christians, whether sincere or not is another issue.]

LD: Srila Prabhupada said that today, in his opinion, there is not a single Christian anywhere.

[PADA: Well that may be, but even the worst modern Christians are saints compared to some of our deviants who have made homosexuals into gurus, reinstated them as gurus knowingly and so on.]

LD: He also said that if a Christian were actually sincere, if he were to come in contact with a pure devotee, he would follow him.

[PADA: And so that is true, Jesus is our initial guru and he lead us to Srila Prabhupada. That is correct.]

LD: It is a fact that if one promises before God, His representative or the representative of His emissary to give up sinful life, then his sinful past will be neutralized. This was seen in the pastime of Jagai and Madhai who were delivered by Caitanya Mahaprabhu with the understanding that they would give up all sinful activity for good. The problem in Christianity or in Krishna consciousness, or anywhere for that matter, is that despite one's having promised, there is a strong tendency to take up the same sinful activities he vowed to give up and go deep into maya's world again.

[PADA: OK, but the real point is that if the follower is sincere, his guru can absolve his sins whether the guru is from today or 2000 years ago, that is the point we are making.]

LD: This a worthwhile discussion, since it will deepen our appreciation of the merciful nature of Krishna's pure devotees. Your description of how Iskcon was meant to operate after Srila Prabhupada entered samadhi is correct in my estimation, with GBC managing, officiating acaryas performing initiations and the exclusive worship in Iskcon of the empowered representative of God, Srila Prabhupada. The solution to the entire controversy is therefore quite clear:

1) Highly qualified devotees designated as officiating acaryas shall perform initiations.

2) Only Srila Prabhupada shall be formally worshipped in Iskcon.

3) Those initiated by an officiating acarya shall be referred to as Srila Prabhupada's granddisciples.

[PADA: Well why, some of the grand disciples follow better than the so-called original ones. Just having some official stamp as first wave disciple does not make one a disciple. Besides, if you are a disciple you are, and if you are not then you are not, whether first wave, second wave, ten thousanth wave, it is that simple.]

The corallaries to these principles are that:

a) Initiation is basically a formality and,

b) in terms of those procedures, it is the officiating acarya who is formally initiating,

[PADA: Well, on behalf of the acharya he is conducting the formal ceremony...]

c) but it is Srila Prabhupada who is the preceptor and actual deliverer of all generations of devotees who follow his teachings.

If everyone would agree to these basic points, we could move away from the mode of argumentation and toward the mode of transcendental exchange of realizations. That is what is required for there to be peace within Srila Prabhupada's family of devotees.

As a parting word, I would like to cite the Caitanya caritamrita, Madhya lila 2.86, where taking guidance from one's predecessors is recommended:

"The simplest thing for human beings is to follow their predecessors. Judgment according to mundane senses is not a very easy process. Whatever is awakened by attachment to one's predecessors is the way of devotional service, as indicated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

Hoping this finds you in the best of health and spirits, I remain

Your servant, Locanananda dasa

[PADA: Thanks, good idea that we all worship the bona fide predecessors. Agreed.]

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

NEW SITE: http://members.tripod.com/gurupoison (Tamal indictment)

* pada's alternative email: angel108b@yahoo.com
* pada's new pager number is 707-973-0372
* press in your number then press pound, and pray that it works.

* Book For Sale "Someone Has Poisoned Me," You can get it from: New Jaipur Press/ POB 208/ Mayodan NC 27027 $10.00 requested donation

* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 206-729-0111) dasdasdas@aol.com

* MONTREAL, Canada, Hasti Gopala Dasa (for details write to: hasti90@hotmail.com)

* BERKELEY California. Hare Krishna Youth, 510-389-3346 conducts regular harinam parties, arotikes, cooking classes, college preaching, Prabhupada video nights, and so on.

* NEW YORK "Prabhupada Sankirtana Society" Headquarters 48 Ave. B NY, NY 10009 (212) 674-0680, PSS108@juno.com

01) http://members.tripod.com/gurupoison (Tamal indictment)
02) http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ pada newsletter archive

03) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 Poison tape
04) Poison tape transcript:
04) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
05) http://www.winink.com/tkg/ Poison whispers
06) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm Poison issue
07) http://www.egroups.com/group/Vaisnavacouncil (Visoka cyber istagosthi)
08) http://www.krsna.tv (underground Hare Krishna web site)
09) www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site
10) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html Puranjana's Site
11) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc GBC expose
12) http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html French site
13) http://members.aol.com/gauridas Gauridasa's site
14) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ Rocana's site
15) www.harekrsna.de "Hare Krsna Homepage" (German)
16) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/ ISKCON Reform (German)
17) German translation of Final Order (pdf)
17) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/final.htm
18) http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ (German Expose)
19) http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
20) http://www.surrealist.org/gurukula/ Nandini's history site
21) http://www.krishnabooks.org Guptas KBI Books (he is a cheat)
22) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/ GBC
23) "illicit sex guru" rationalizations:
23) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/iskcon/right.htm
24) http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm Appointment tape fraud
25) http://www.asitis.com Original Bhagavad-gita As It Is
26) http://krsnabook.com Original Krsna Book
27) http://www.krishna.org Prabhupada Hare Krishna News Network
28) http://folio.bhaktivedanta.org S.P. Folio Infobase CD-ROM
29) http://realaudio.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada RealAudio Archive
30) http://mp3.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada MP3 Bhajans, 2 CD set
31) www.domgbc.org (Direction Of Management)
32) www.acbspn.com/ Prabhupada Network
33) www.ROOPA.org (Raghunatha dasa's world economics proposal)
34) http://www.prabhupada.com/ BBT archives site
35) http://www.govinda.net (first editions of S.P. books)

36) http://www.JitendriyaBooks.com Trading original SP. books
37) http://krsna.kgb.cz/hlavni.htm Prague Czech-devotees (english site)
38) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
39) http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm (Cyber gurukula)