Subject: new review
http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/reviewspaper.html

This was unanswered.
Where does one go to obtain all of Prabhupad's lectures, etc. for $99. on MP3? Thank you Please reinclude this on your next newsletter, if possible.

[PADA: From Pratyatosa, see his address below...]

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FER SURE
to: pada

Surely there have been enough examples of breaking the rules, legally, going against Prabhupada's directives to remove these guys. I don't think abuse is even the grounds we should go by. What about not managing the way Prabhupada set things up? Just the fact of the election neglect for gbc members is proof they don't legally hold their positions. Electing gurus is also completely against the orders of our founder acarya. We have legal documents that Srila Prabhupada personnally authored, and on any counts that they were disobeyed, the disobeyors are legally illegal, or fraudulent. Seems to me that's why Srila Prabhupada made these documents in the first place. Course if the big guys with lots of money can pay for dirty lawyers, there may be a challenge, but I don't see why that should be insurmountable.

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1) BE NICE TO THE GAUDIYA MATHA FOLKS

>From: "debasis basu"
>To: pratyatosa@hotmail.com
>Subject: go on your way
>therefore you may go on your own way as directed by your spiritual master.
>by your kindness, which you may call to be your vaishnava quality, which
>you have learned recently, PLEASE STOP SPEAKING ABOUT GAUDIYA MATH AND
>ANYBODY CONCERNED THERE.
>
>NEVER TAKE THE NAMES OF ANY PERSONALITY RESIDING IN THE GAUDIYA MATH. WE
>HATE THIS.
>
>do you have a humility, you may call this to be your vaishnava quality, to
>reply with good words to me?
>then write. otherwise withdraw all your hellish articles from internet. you
>may write anything that you want for your spiritual master. DO NOT CREATE
>DISTURBANCES FOR US.

=================================

2) It is outrageous

Dear Puranjana Prabhu, paoho, agt Srila Prabhupada!
Day after day, year after year, we can't stop wondering how outrageous crazy, fallen and senseless are the sahajiyas disguised as devotees, both in post '77 Iskcon, Gaudiya Matha, VNN, etc. Prabhupada warned us that Maya has completely stolen their intelligence, because they're impurely motivated and make a show of a religion. The way they glorify all their junk weirdos as beloved 'gurus' reveals that indeed they're damn stupid and completely blind, but also it appears they're doing that deliberately, in order to discredit Vaishnavism and bonafide religions down to the root. And they wont stop until court stops them, and that's exactly what's happening right now. Lord Chaitanya's movement really attracts most fallen souls, isn't it?

On the other side, look what other brainless karmi ravanas are doing with the cows, sheep and other poor animals: just because of an animal-flue they're killing hundreds of thousands of child-like animals, and worse crying because 'their profit suffers'. Instead of vaccination, they're killing the animals? No comment. My goodness, have they got any idea that their demoniac acts are pushing a massive catastrophic reactions upon the whole population of this planet by this senseless, unecesary, asuric mass animal slaughter? Do they have any brains? Perhaps not, shastra says that non-vegetarian diet destroys one's intelligence as a fire destroying the forest...

ys, Ganapati & Prabhupadanugas

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3) A PRABHUPADA PASTIME

Dear RupaVilas dasa Adhikari,
Please accept my dandavats.
HARE KRSNA!

Prabhupada in Montreal with Govinda dd, Janardana, Gaurasundara, et.al., means early ISKCON days, isn't it. Maybe '66 or '67. Apparently there was at the time some visa problem for 'Swamiji', and these early disciples got some extended personal Prabhupada-lilamrta for two, three months or more. Note this piece is designated 'Story #25. If you like, write back to me, saying Hare Krsna, for I have one other nice piece, also from Govinda dd, entitled Vyasa-puja in the west. 'Tis remaining nectar to your mind, I hope.
HARE RAMA! BkR

Subject: Cathedral Visits
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:36:53 -0700
Dear Ross prabhu,
Hare Krsna. Jaya Prabupada! The cloud is coming your way. Here is another story from Govinda dasi. Hope this finds you well in your journeys.
Vikramini dd

Story #25 - Cathedral Visits
During the summer in Montreal, Janardana who seemed to have access to a vehicle would take Srila Prabhupada, Gaurasundara and I on little excursions to places of interest. Usually, it was just Janardana, Gaurasundara, Srila Prabhupada and myself and we would get into the car and go to the places that Janardana knew about in and around Montreal vicinity. One day, he took us to a huge cathedral, a beautiful cathedral with towering domes and elaborate sculptures and paintings.

As I walked with Srila Prabhupada through the huge church the quiet mood of reverence predominated. Stained glass windows, Stations of the Cross, holy icons and elaborate paintings surrounded us. It was a beautiful creation by man dedicated to the worship of the Supreme God. Because I had traveled all over Europe as a teenager and spent much time marveling the artistic work of the masters in the cathedrals of Europe I felt very happy to be there with Srila Prabhupada and eager to hear his opinion of one of my favorite places. Srila Prabhupada paused and looked up at the dome ceiling that towered above us, and turned to me and said: "Yes this the worship of Narayana with awe and reverance. This is the mood of reverential worship". He said it flatly with approval and appreciated the pious efforts that went into this monument to God.

Then we walked along the sides of the church by the Stations of the Cross, elaborate paintings that showed Christ carrying the cross and ultimately the crucifixion. Because I had not been raised Catholic, rather I was raised a Baptist, I did not really understand the philosophical or religious meanings of these stations nor did I really understand the various tradtions of religious trappings of the Catholic Church yet I appeciated the exquisite artwork and the devotion that went into it. During my own early years of searching for God the old masters of Europe had been my heroes and spending time in the European cathedrals had convinced me of God's

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4) JAYA RADHE # 1

JRD: Excuse me, Vaisnava prabhu, if it seems that by agreeing with Puranjana's points it may seem as if I disagree with your steady emphasis on the fact that we are all in a potential to be act as gurus of one kind of another, in addition to the importance of serving the Vaisnavas who are present.

[PADA: Correct, we may worship any or perhaps all brahmanas, vaishnavas and so on, in a general way, however Srila Prabhupada says in the CC that only the uttama if fit to be worshipped as the acharya (and be worshipped as good as God). Srila Prabhupada therefore distinguishes between general worship of other "prabhus" and the uttama prabhu, and indeed that is what Srila Prabhupada does all over the place. He also warns of mixing the qualities of the kanistha, madhya, uttama and so on.]

JRD: I am glad that you continue corresponding here despite oppositions; we certainly need to hear various angles in this open discussion.

[PADA: This is fine, yet we often find that the people who say "there is or may be another diksha guru somewhere" are being very vague about this alleged person? So we ask them if they know who this "someone" is, so we can all know if they are discussing a theorectical concept or an actual practical living person and concrete proposal?

That does not mean we want to control anything, we just need to know if they are making some theoretical concept of if they have a practical person in mind? If they say "anyone" can be guru, we may agree in principle to the idea, but we then have to say that before we worship this alleged, even perhaps a non-existing person since they are not clear. We have to know who he is and if he has the specific qualifications that make him "fit for worship" as Srila Prabhupada says? That is what shastra tells us, we have to study the guru, sorry, that is what shastra says?

And thus, for us to be able to even nominally study the qualifications of their alleged guru, we need to know who this is? Is this not fair? Just like if one says, "There is a Mercedes Benz car somewhere." OK fine. But still, we need to see your actual Mercedes Benz so we know --it is not a Volkswagen? So we can see if it is authentic. This is common sense? Srila Prabhupada says people have to study a potential guru for 6 months minimum, ok, so we are agreeing?]

JRD: Sometimes I feel a little lost here, because the points of disagreement in this egroup are often so subtle that I find myself agreeing with each one of you even while you argue points with one another. Perhaps part of my confusion stems from not knowing the whole picture or beliefs behind each particular author. Some points seem unbelieveable to me; for example, after a year of seeking answers to the ritvik debate, on the vnn forums, and being slammed as a ritvik simply for posing the questions, instead of having my questions answered, I was finally answered on various points through email, only in the past few weeks.

[PADA: VNN has banned us from their forums period, and even threatened to sue us. They have never answer our questions for years together. Worse, Narayana Mahraja refused to see me after Jadurani invited me to meet him and he agreed to see me, and then he cancelled our meeting time three times in one (very long) day, while I waited patiently all day long. Ultimately, he was going off site to see some 'Hindus' to avoid seeing me at all. This is how they have dealt with us all along. We wrote him a 23 page letter, he said we should discuss that letter in person, then when we came in person, he snubbed us.]

JRD: And one thing that astounded me was the position of some that there can not be any initiating gurus apart from Srila Prabhupada!

[PADA: A person needs to be a bona fide diskha guru before he can give diksha. For example, Srila Prabhupada says the diksha guru needs to be "authorized by higher authorities." OK, that means he is sanctioned by Krishna. This is why Prabhupada wrote to Rupanuga in 1974, "Amongst my God brothers, no one is qualifed to be acharya."

They do not have the higher sanction, and indeed they are violating the specific order of their guru by breaking up the GBC system he ordered (as Srila Prabhupada also mentions in his "Phalgun Krishna Pancami" which he read to other Gaudiya Matha members in 1961.]

JRD: That is, at least, the very gist of what I was told was the hard ritvik position, and it shocked me very much. This is sectarian consciousness and is very scary. I have been protected, you might say, for many years, from even knowing these comlicated ideas and debates were taking place, when I removed myself from the temple when it became too unbearable. It seemed easier to focus on Krsna without all the politics and other disturbances. So my take on what Krsna consciousness, devotional service, and what it all means to me, has remained relatively simple, as in the early days when it was all about harinam, love feasts, puja, and book distribution. Of course this is trite to say, for I am pretty certain that experience is mutual among us, and is of course at the core of our delvings here on this council. I also am apalled by adherence to allegations against some of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers, and what I see as blanket condemnation of all within the Gaudiya Math.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada said that none of them are qualified to be acharyas, and that is therefore true, yet there were many ordinary rank and file good souls who just left the Gaudiya Matha (as Srila Prabhupada explains: being chased off by the false guru system the leaders created) just like we left ISKCON. So, the rank and file were not condemned, just some of the leaders who were described as "severe offenders" "imitation of guru" "self appointed acharyas" "kill guru and become guru" et al. group --by Srila Prabhupada.]

JRD: I consider this mentality dangerously offensive, what to speak of divisive. Some may be outraged at this statement but I must say it. I am not stubborn, and will keep an open ear to refutations of my opinions, so long as they do not feel as poison to my ears, particularly regarding the speculations about certain personalities who I consider to be especially loved by the Supreme Lord.

[PADA: Well, actually, some of the Gaudiya Matha folks subsequently indirectly stated that Srila Prabhupada only wanted a GBC/ ritvik system and they were mistaken by their helping rubber stamping the GBC as diksha gurus. And actually, that was the system devised by Srila Saraswati Thakura in 1936 as well, a managerial body, as some of them know too.]

JRD: I very much appreciate Locanananda prabhu's inputs here this morning too. They are as soothing as a slow-moving river on a hot day, with the breeze carrying wafts of the scent of lotuses. Please forgive me, any who I may offend by any statements I have made. I do not have all the answers, and that is why I read what you say and mostly keep quiet and have nothing really useful to add to the discussion.

your servant, Jayaradhe dasi

[PADA: Hope this helps. Ys pd]

=================================

5) JAYA RADHE # 2

JRD: Thanks prabhus, both of you for addressing my post so clearly and patiently and thoughtfully. I am not quite familiar with the allusions to Puranjana's demand for a list, though i have seen it mentioned a few times by Vaisnava. Is this right, Puranjana prabhu?

[PADA: Vaishnava das has a crystal ball unseen by anyone except himself? For example, he has said (perhaps for the past four years) that Puranjana will attack any new pure devotee that will or would appear, despite that I never said or even implied that? Ever? This is called "straw man" argument, you make up something whole cloth as the alleged statement of your opponent and then attack that, nevermind your opponent never said that?

Nevermind we said the exact opposite since 1977, we welcome more, and hopefuly many more pure devotees on the planet? When did we say we were going to attack the next pure devotee? Never? So why does Vaishnava predict that we we will? He sees the future better than anyone else? He knows that I am a bank robber, but not yet, but that I "will" rob the bank? So he is attacking and even arresting me now, for a crime I may or might commit in the future?

So while we may or may not attack devotees, he attacks us every day for four years? He is de facto saying that I am the probable worst atacker of the pure devotees on the planet, indeed pure devotees are afraid to have their names cited in my presence because I will attack them, but then, he has no evidence we would attack or badger any future great devotee? Meanwhile, he is attacking and badgering a devotee, namely me, and slandering me as the attacker of the pure devotees for the past four years, with zero evidence except "we would do this in the future"? Huh?

And so he says he cannot tell me who any pure devotee is, because I am such an envious attacker of the pure devotees I will immediately attack any new pure devotees, but I never said that we would attack any pure devotees, new or otherwise? Rather this "straw man" attack gives him a license to attack us, and he has been doing that for the past four years as my worst judge, jury an executioner all in one, for a crime we have never commited, but he inisists we would commit?

How does he know that we are the worst attackers of pure devotees, in the future, who have not yet even manifest? Bam, the answer is that he is able to see the future, and he knows my future mentality, which he defines exclusively with his crytal ball all of my future actions, nevermind I never said that I would act that way, ever?

As for the alleged list of gurus, again we never mentioned any such list. He is making this up as well. We merely cited that Srila Prabhupada (who does not ask for a list of pure devotee gurus rather) he says we have to give the "specific name" of the guru. So Vaishnava is making it look like Srila Prabhupada is demanding some alleged list (?) when all Srila Prabhupada says is: give the specific name of the guru or this is mayavadi?

Vaishnava is even mis-citing Srila Prabhupada in the regard. Srila Prabhupada does not ask for any list, he merely says, you have to give the name of the guru, that is all? Vaishnava says this is wrong because as soon as you give them name of the pure devotee, Puranjana will attack that devotee, which we never said we would do, meanwhile he is attacking us every day? Meanwhile, he neatly ignores Srila Prabhupada who says, you have to give the name, and he refuses to follow that simple order?]

JRD: And what do you think of Vaisanva's statement that there is something much more meaningful than simply official recognition, as the guru/disciple relationship is such a personal thing? I do appreciate your statements regarding seeking the uttama devotee, while acknowledging our individual (non-diksa) guruships in different capacities and on different levels. But how is this to be collectively understood? I mean, Srila Prabhupada himself did, as many have pointed out, also break free from the society of Godbrothers to spread the mission of Lord Caitanya as per his own guru's desires. So, while it may seem to many of us unlikely and even preposterous to consider the possibility of self-effulgent personalities emerging, in light of so many bitter experiences of false guruship, who are we to put an official mark on it? On someone as unfathomable and especially favored as is Krsna unalloyed devotee?

your servant, Jayaradhe

[PADA: Very good points. I do not have enough time to reply to all of it herein but suffice it to say that we have the clear orders from Srila Prabhupada that he wanted a ritvik and GBC system all along, that violating that specific order caused extreme chaos and breakdown in the Gaudiya Matha, even murders, and this is essentially stated in all of his documents from 1967 - 1977 without any change, so we have to go with what we do know that he did order, otherwise, if we are not faithful to his order, we will not become pure ourselves. thanks pd]

SITES TO CHECK OUT:

NEW SITE: http://members.tripod.com/gurupoison (Tamal indictment)

* pada's alternative email: angel108b@yahoo.com
* pada's new pager number is 707-973-0372
* press in your number then press pound, and pray that it works.

* Book For Sale "Someone Has Poisoned Me," You can get it from: New Jaipur Press/ POB 208/ Mayodan NC 27027 $10.00 requested donation

* Seattle, Wa (Dhamaghosa dasa 360-856-5411) dasdasdas@aol.com

* MONTREAL, Canada, Hasti Gopala Dasa (for details write to: hasti90@hotmail.com)

* BERKELEY California. Hare Krishna Youth, 510-389-3346 conducts regular harinam parties, arotikes, cooking classes, college preaching, Prabhupada video nights, and so on.

* NEW YORK "Prabhupada Sankirtana Society" Headquarters 48 Ave. B NY, NY 10009 (212) 674-0680, PSS108@juno.com

01) http://members.tripod.com/gurupoison (Tamal indictment)
02) http://mitglied.lycos.de/pada/ pada newsletter archive

03) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933 Poison tape
04) Poison tape transcript:
04) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
05) http://www.winink.com/tkg/ Poison whispers
06) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm Poison issue
07) http://www.egroups.com/group/Vaisnavacouncil (Visoka cyber istagosthi)
08) http://www.krsna.tv (underground Hare Krishna web site)
09) www.prabhupada.cc Prabhupada samkirtana site
10) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html Puranjana's Site
11) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc GBC expose
12) http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html French site
13) http://members.aol.com/gauridas Gauridasa's site
14) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ Rocana's site
15) www.harekrsna.de "Hare Krsna Homepage" (German)
16) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/ ISKCON Reform (German)
17) German translation of Final Order (pdf)
17) http://members.nbci.com/prabhupada/final.htm
18) http://members.xoom.com/prabhupada/ (German Expose)
19) http://www.equalsouls.org/tkg Srila Prabhupada wanted to be poisoned?
20) http://www.surrealist.org/gurukula/ Nandini's history site
21) http://www.krishnabooks.org Guptas KBI Books (he is a cheat)
22) http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/ GBC
23) "illicit sex guru" rationalizations:
23) http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/iskcon/right.htm
24) http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm Appointment tape fraud
25) http://www.asitis.com Original Bhagavad-gita As It Is
26) http://krsnabook.com Original Krsna Book
27) http://www.krishna.org Prabhupada Hare Krishna News Network
28) http://folio.bhaktivedanta.org S.P. Folio Infobase CD-ROM
29) http://realaudio.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada RealAudio Archive
30) http://mp3.bhaktivedanta.org Prabhupada MP3 Bhajans, 2 CD set
31) www.domgbc.org (Direction Of Management)
32) www.acbspn.com/ Prabhupada Network
33) www.ROOPA.org (Raghunatha dasa's world economics proposal)
34) http://www.prabhupada.com/ BBT archives site
35) http://www.govinda.net (first editions of S.P. books)

36) http://www.JitendriyaBooks.com Trading original SP. books
37) http://krsna.kgb.cz/hlavni.htm Prague Czech-devotees (english site)
38) http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
39) http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm (Cyber gurukula)