Pada's email: angel108b@yahoo.com
Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.
[PADA is an online newsletter going out
to over 1,000 devotees and Hindu's. Please let us know if you have comments,
or if you are not interested. We try our best to keep our mailing list in order.
Jai Srila Prabhupada!]
Please let us know
if you wish to add other addresses or cancell your subsrciption.
PADA also may or may not endorse
all of the statements found in our featured letters.
>From Adri:
Dear PADA,
PAMHO, AGTSP,
I think there has been some misunderstanding. I have never agreed that we
should laugh at the poison issue. Indeed, as Nara Narayan prabhu points
out, the IRM position is that the investigation must be thorough and unbiased.
[PADA: Well, the people who laughed at us on the day we brought it out in
1997 are the CHAKRA folks, and to be honest, their laughter at Srila
Prabhupada's poison complaint was the worst experience I ever had in the
past ten billion years of my miserable existence. No one is allowed to
laugh when a pure devotee of God says he is being tortured and put to
death, and woe unto those who do so.
Therefore when you said we should go to CHAKRA, and I had a flash back of
those laughing hyenas, it hit an emotional chord in me and I am sorry if I
took it our on you, because I consider you as my friend. Adri, why are you
even asking me, a person whom they laughed at and attacked physically when
we brought out the poison complaint, to even look at their site?
Adri this is almost more than a person can bear, to see these laughing
hyenas while the purest devotee is making a plea for help? It is the most
disgusting thing I ever witnessed, and you have no idea what disgusting
things I have witnessed here in the USA. And you say, we need to go to
them, the laughing hyena crew, for a better understanding? Adri I just
cannot take it, really prabhu have some mercy on me here. I will clean up
buckets of stools for you Adri, but I cannot take advice from the same
party of people who laughed at my master's death. I will die before that happens.]
AD: The articles I pointed to on CHAKRA expose serious flaws in the book
written by Nityananda prabhu.
[PADA: I don't care about Nityananda's book being flawed or not flawed. I
went out there in 1997 convinced that Srila Prabhupada is being poisoned,
and you try to tackle me dowm with a bunch of technical points on a book I
did not even author, written a few years after we started the whole thing?
Does this make any sense?
I was convinced that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned way before that book
came out. It has some flaws, so what, I am going for the overall picture,
there are too many pieces that look bad. And besides, I rely on the
feelings I got from Prabhupada's statements. That is what convinced me.
Nityananda's book has some flaws, maybe, but you are not letting us use the
whispers and other valid points in Nityananda's book to counter the real or
alleged flaws? Adri, help me out here please.
Besides Nityanananda admits in his book that he is basically throwing out a
lot of stuff, and it is an ongoing work, he did not say this is all final?
He admits more evidence and discussion are going to be made, he does not
say this is the final word? Anyway, If CHAKRA now agrees that the arsenic
level is 2.6, or whatever they say at the moment, and they say Nityananda
is wrong for saying level 3, or whatever he said, who cares? He was
overloaded with arsenic for an 80 lb. person it would seem? Or what?
There is no good reason that only Srila Prabhupada would have been
afflicted like this and not others in his party? Or what? And even if they
never found any poison, there are poisons that can kill you that are not
detectable. Srila Prabhupada also said if you give me Western medicine,
you'll kill me. Then they gave him Western medicine? He said do not give me
sugar, then they gave him too much sugar? And so on. Sorry, there are just
too many weird things going on here, and none of this looks good for
CHAKRA's case.
And coincidentally, it gets worse, he said he is being poisoned, and
coincidentally people were whispering about poisoning him, and
coincidentally people were talking of murder of gurus and poisoning people
to death, and coincidentally GBC were overheard talking about poisoning
him, and coincidentally he said he was like Marici, and coincidentally
Jayapataka said even a cow would die in this room, and so on? You say we
should not operate on hunches, well we all have a hunch something is amiss here!]
AD: If he or you are able to defeat those papers, point for point, then I
am very happy to be convinced that they are fallacious.
[PADA: I am not the author of that book, if you disagree take it up with
Nityananada. I say that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned because that is the
feeling I get from the evidence, as do thousands of other devotees who
agree. If you have doubts that is your personal business between you and
Srila Prabhupada. But mind you, we were kicked out in 1980 basically
because we (had no evidence at the time but) we just a gut feeling that
something is wrong.
If an airplane is in a dive, you can get out the manual and start quoting
chapter and verse, but maybe better is someone with a gut feeling who will
grab the wheel and pull it up in time. Our gut feeling was right in 1978,
when we began to challenge, and you now agree. Yet it took you 20 years to
join us, that Srila Prabhupada did not want these neophytes to be
worshipped as his successors.
So you stayed with the GBC for maybe 18 years after we were tossed out,
although we had at the time no letters, no appointment tape, no
conversations books, or any other support. We just felt it was wrong. Later
more evidence came in. We therefore also felt that the poison issue was
wrong too, and the evidence that has come in is overwhelming. Some of it is
confidential. You say it is not all valid unless we make it all public, so
now what, you want to get more people threatened or killed? Adri you make no
sense?
The point is, going on a hunch may be the right thing to do as well in some
cases. You have not proven that hunches are always bad? After all, there is
a thing called the Supersoul? Right? In sum, we feel that Srila Prabhupada
is saying he is being poisoned, maybe you will call it a hunch, but that is
what we hear. And it has been confirmed, so it is turning out to be not
just a speculative hunch, he is saying something very significant.]
AD: Whenever a GBC person tries to attack The Final Order you will notice
that we very quickly respond and smash their nonsense. If we could defeat
the papers we cited on CHAKRA then believe me we would. We cannot. If you
can, then please do it. If you can't then you are not in a strong position
to criticise us for citing them since they may well be correct. If CHAKRA
says Krishna is God are you also going to disagree with that just because
it appears on their web site?
[PADA: CHAKRA says one thing all the time: that Tamal is innocent. And we
do not agree. It is that simple. We have other evidence which we cannot
show you too, and we are sorry. In any case we simply do not agree with
your interpretation of the open evidence either, or that the whispers have
no significance and so on and so forth. In sum we believe that Srila
Prabhupada was poisoned and you do not and CHAKRA does not either. You have
apparently taken up their cause, which everyone knows already: to defend Tamal.
CHAKRA supporters laughed at the poison complaint. I need not waste my time
refuting anything they have to say further. What is interesting is that you
accept their evidence, and not our whisper evidence and so on? You want me
to refute their evidence, then you tie my hands behind my back and say I
cannot use my evidence to refute their evidence. This is not going to work
Adri, we are way to street smart to fall for this trick.]
AD: I look forward to your clear point for point refutations of the
articles I cited. Once you have defeated them I shall then cite your
writing as the definitive exlanation. We will never get anywhere purely on
the strength of hunch, speculation, emotion, sentimentality etc, however
well-intentioned it may be.
[PADA: Well Adri, you are wrong. We went on our hunch about the guru issue
in 1980 and got out of the belly of the beast so to speak, with the right
basic conclusion, which by the way, you now accept. You have not proven
that all hunches are not good or real, nor could you ever dream of doing
so? Our hunch about the gurus not being bona fide was right, and the
evidence came in later, and our hunch about the poison was right, and the
evidence is way beyond what we ever thought would come out. We are not
saying this makes us special, rather we are like the miner's parakeet, when
there are poison fumes about we react. It's a reflex action, not much
brains required.]
AD: That is exactly what the GBC have done, and is the main reason we are
in this mess in the first place. For goodness sake let us not make the same
mistakes. And one more time, we do not say that Srila Prabhupada was not
poisoned (though I must insist I did not do it); all we ask for is
evidence. I hope this clarifies our position.
ys Adridharan das
[PADA: I tried to refute your CHAKRA articles by citing things like the
whispers and then you said we cannot submit this as evidence. So, it would
seem to me that you are going on the hunch that CHAKRA is right on the
poison issue, and your hunch is that our evidence is inconclusive, despite
that it appears to be convincing so many people? Anwyay, thanks for
writing, please read below more on this issue....
I am always your eternal friend and servant, PD]
====================================
Dear Puranjan:
This is a fascinating conversation. I am wondering ....what is it going to
take to have a formal investigation initiated? I actually thought one was
in process.
[PADA: The "Balavanta report" is a sort of formal investigation.
Yet it
remains to be seen how or if this issue could be presented to the Indian
government, which according to many, can be bribed to cover up murders and
hangings. Any such formal case would be very complicated in India, which is
world-wide famous for red tape, interminable legal imbroglios, bribes, etc.
The Gaudiya Matha case has gone on forever in the courts over there with no
conclusion, since that is the way it is there.
That is why we are not confident in the so-called India legal formal case,
per se. Maybe a court case will develop in India, but we cannot rely on
that. The point we are stressing is that many saints were attacked if not
assassinated for the past thousands of years, and it is actually very rare
that any of this ever gets formally prosecuted in the karmi court systems?
Frankly I cannot think off hand of any saint whose assassination was
prosecuted by any government court? For people to say that this "formal
court investigation" is the standard for murder attempts on saints is
simply unprecedented. What is of interest, many of those who say, "We can
only accept the formal investigation," also say, "The forensic whispers
are
unsubstantial." So, here is the evidence that would apply in a court, and
we do not accept it? Or they will not accept it: unless the karmi court
accepts it?
This is also why we have separation of Church and State in US law. A
religion may have a belief that cannot be proven by laws, because the law
does not always work in all cases. Many devotees also like to think, "The
government courts will solve all of our problems," as a means of escaping
from the harsh reality of being responsible for doing something themselves.
Yes, the government of Chernobyl will fix it. Uh-huh!
Of interest, why do GBC sympathizers say that ONLY WHEN the karmi justices,
comprised of maybe vodka drinkers, beef eaters and/or beedi smokers accept,
then they will accept? It appears to be a stalling technique. Don't forget,
this is the same stalling technique they have used on the molestation
issue, "Well, if you have evidence then prosecute." Of course most
devotees
are poor and cannot afford a big lawsuit, and the GBC knows that. Worse,
folks like Gopa Vrindapal once told me many years ago that if kids are
being molested, they should hire lawyers themselves, it is not Gopa's
problem. In sum, a molested kid, with no job, no proper education, perhaps
health and psychology problems, no support, no help, and the trauma of
being molested, should go and hire his own twenty thousand dollars down
payment lawyer? So, this is called stalling and avoiding technique, the
buck stops anywhere but here.
Worse, the government often favors or at least covers for the crooks. So!
Usually what happens is that just a teeny band of loyal followers in a
religion understand what really occured, say an assassination attempt on
the saint, and from them it becomes established as historical fact. That is
how our case will also evolve, and that is how we have gone forward. We
have not relied on the formal legal part, where frankly, we cannot think of
any saint's assassination being formally concluded in the courts? If it can
be, that is fine, but that would be extraordinarily rare, perhaps one of a
kind from a historical perspective. And to establish anything in a court in
India is extraordinary all by itself.
On the other hand our system: to establish a base of people who know what
occured and spread the idea from there, is working. For example, Dhanesvara
will convince a few hundred people, pada has convinced a few hundred
people, Nityananada has convinced a few hundred people, Mahabuddhi will
convince people in his circle, and the people we have convinced will in
turn convince their friends, and so by geometrical expansion and so on and
so forth. Simultaneously, the CHAKRA view is collapsing on all levels,
their credibility is down to the pits.]
** D: It seems that this recent 'hanging' in Mayapur could be another piece
of indirect evidence, although haven't there been many crimes of this
magnitude to show the mentality of at least some of the parties who were
surrounding and caring for Prabhupada during his last days? It seems you
have gathered so much evidence thus far.
[PADA: Yes, confirming evidence could be used to show that the GBC goons
have banned, beat and killed other devotees, and as such they are
criminals. Would they not attack another devotee, namely Srila Prabhupada?]
** D: Anyway I appreciate your point here about Adri using Chakra evidence
to back up his current position.
[PADA: That is the bottom line. CHAKRA says that Tamal is innocent, and
indeed CHAKRA is run by Tamal's best pals. That Adri is linked to them is
not going to be agreeable to the vast majority of us reformers.]
Thanks for sharing this with me.
Hare Krishna, Hari bol,
==============================================
Subject: Re: NNV personal
From: Nathan Zakheim
To: "pada" ,
Subject: Re: re dhanesvara
Dear Puranjana prabhu!
[PADA: Adri says that unless there is a direct statement from Srila
Prabhupada that he is being poisoned, then we need not consider the rest of
the evidence, such as the whispers. Which is: what CHAKRA says.]
NNV das: No he doesn't! I know for a fact that Adri want tht issue fully
INVESTIGATED by impartial INVESTIGATORS.
[PADA: CHAKRA is impartial? And what has CHAKRA ever successfully
investigated? Molesters? CHAKRA is neither impartial nor are they capable
of investigating properly. Therefore Adri is not neutral, otherwise why is
he arguing with us and citing as his authority: CHAKRA? CHAKRA is clearly
not impartial but is rather fully partial to Tamal. This is well known. And
in fact their site is run by Tamal's biggest defenders over the years such
as Umapati, Vipramukhya, Hari Sauri, Jayadvaita, Ravindra Swarupa and so
on. To be impartial Adri would have to say, "Maybe pada's view is right,
maybe CHAKRA's view is right, we cannot say for sure and therefore we are
not speaking on the issue. We are reserving judgement."
Instead Adri went ahead and said that he supports CHAKRA's view. And then
they basically tried to slam-bang us to pieces and make big declarations
that PADA is defeated etc., which is, by the way, what the GBC has said of
us since 1980. People are a little impetuous if they think that using a GBC
tactic like "declaring pada defeated" ends everything? This is how
children
play, oh you are shot you are dead, and then they both get up and play
again. However, seeing this technique used on me a thousand times, I am
surprised that someone is still thinking they can use it and have success?
You need something a tad more substantial than this....!]
NNV: Whatever evidence that exists ...exists!
[PADA: And we were convinced simply by Srila Prabhupada's words in 1997,
and we think that if he says that he is being given poison, and this is
confirmed by eye-witnesses, then this is enough evidence for us to say:
foul play. And if foul play is suspected, then the suspects should have
been suspended from office while the investigation takes place. And CHAKRA
should have been neutral and supported the investigation, but they have
not. Rather CHAKRA has tried to poke holes in the investigation and the
investigators. Of course, CHAKRA also said that they were going to
investigate child molestation, cow abuse and so on, and nothing of
substance ever occurs. We cannot rely on their investigative ability.]
NNV: Only Krishna can help us find it.
[PADA: And He has, indeed the supporting evidence has been astonishing and
FAR and away beyond what we had originally expected. Yet Adri says we
should bring the names of our sources out in the public now and expose
them, simultaneously he admits that people can still be hanged and
murdered. This is contrary, and no small amount of dangerous and
sentimental, and shows he has not understood how dangerous the CHAKRA-ites
can be. He wants us to show our whole hand or cards, knowing that if we
have a winning hand we or our sources can be shot? This makes no sense?]
NNV: IRM is dealing with the CERTAIN disobedience of the GBC to be Srila
Prbhupada's representatives rather than bogus gurus.
[PADA: So let them stick with that argument. However if they want to write
a "position paper" on the poison issue, as they have, then they should
have
consulted first with those of us who launched that issue in the first
place. For example, if you want to write a paper on nuclear physics, it
might serve you well to consult with other people who have written papers
on that same topic and compare notes. Otherwise, if you write an
independent paper, the other writers are free to address your statements.
We know that what really happened is that Adri has shown his real doubts,
i.e. that he does not side with pada but that he sides with CHAKRA
(so-called defenders of ISKCON but really Tamal's defense attorneys). And
as such, he has cited the CHAKRA web-site as his authority, which in our
view defends the primary culprits in all of the crimes. We and thousands of
others are not going to agree with Adri. He should have stuck with his
central guru issue, but instead he has revealed that he has sympathy for
the devil on the poison issue, and these types sympathy have hampered
previous attempts to reform ISKCON.]
NNV: That is CERTAIN. It is PROBABLE that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned,
based on the indirect evidence.
[PADA: It is indirect to you --but-- direct to me. That is why me and one
lady went out with a sign at the 1997 Rathayatra and boldy proclaimed that
Srila Prabhupada is being poisoned, and you did not chose to do so. Now
there are thousands of other devotees who agree with us and the evidence
has piled up substantially. Your proposal is what, that we should have
waited for Adri or Balavanta to bring this out and we'd have been waiting
for the next kalpa? Or what is your point? No, we made a big sign and some
leaflets and went out and challenged the whole mob of GBC and their
supporters, "Your party poisoned Srila Prabhupada." Notice that when
we did
that in 1997 there were 35-40 GBC and gurus present, but last year there
were none present. We had our effect, we are gaining ground, they are on
the run.
Balavanta has only taken this up now because we brought it out. And now we
are told by you that we have to wait for him, the karmi courts, or another
90 years Gaudiya Matha battle before we can come to any conclusion? Why?
Balavanta is a good follower, but he cannot lead these issues, nor has he
ever lead any susbtantial change in ISKCON previously. He has not spoken
up, but we are very hopeful that he will help solve this for a broader
audience, and indications are that he will do so.
So he is good as a back up support troop, but not as the point man. To say
that the point man has to wait up for the supply troopers arriving next
month means you have no point man, he is now a supply man. That never
works. The point man is what he is, that is his role. Krishna also has some
people do work they are seemingly not fit for, so that is up to Him and not
us? He's the puppet master, and we are His puppets only. We have no actual
independence, this is a myth.]
NNV: I KNOW THAT KRISHNA WILL ENABLE US TO FIND THE REST OF THE MISSING PIECES. All Adri has said is that there are indeed some missing pieces. Some devotees get this point and some do not. (I have seen postings of both).
[PADA: And we are saying that there are enough pieces already to form a
conclusion such as: Statements from Srila Prabhupada; "The same thing"
i.e.
discussions about gurus and lawyers being killed and, I look like I am
being poisoned; Confirmation that he is saying that someone is poisoning
him by eye-witnesses; The whipsers; The arsenic; The several eye-witnesses
who confirm that they were convinced he was being poisoned at the time, and
so on, these are all sufficient evidences.]
PADA HAD SAID: He also cited CHAKRA as his source of his understanding of the poison issue i.e. the homosexual pedophile guru killers society? The people who laughed like hyenas when we brought forward this issue from day one square one are now Adri's authorities? This is not semantics, he is siding with the people who laughed like hyenas that Srila Prabhupada is saying he is being poisoned: the CHAKRA folks.
NNV das: Chakra would be very surprised to think that Adri is siding with them.
[PADA: No they would not. They are counting on folks like Adri to read the
"evidence" on their site which counters our claim, and to be affected
by
it. Don't forget that the 1986 reformers did not agree fully with the GBC
either, but they agreed enough to cover for some very major crimes.]
NNV: I would say that the overwhelming evidence is to the contrary. What IS
being noticed by the "Clones" is that we are fighting amongst one
another.
(Who knows, this may actually be good?)
[PADA: It is good. Open discussion is always good, and you are the ultimate
champion of this? If Adri has a view that we should all go to CHAKRA to
figure out our ideas, let us get that out of him and find out what this is
all about?]
PADA HAD SAID: It's about Srila Prabhupada and who laughed at his poison
complaint, i.e. the CHAKRA-ites, and its personal. I will never forgive
those laughing hyenas, and they are represented by CHAKRA and Adri knows
that. He has not insulted me but he has insulted Srila Prabhupada by siding
with the hyenas, who by the way, assaulted me as well at that time. Why is
he siding with these jerks? The people who attacked me physcially at the
time? And murderers?]
NNV das: Adri is not laughing with any hyenas. He is fighting them.
[PADA: He is only fighting them on one level, on another level he is citing
the web-site of the hyenas as his source of understanding the poison issue.
I might be a mafia man who is fighting another mafia man, and this looks
like justice, but no, I am still in the mafia's circle of influence. So we
have to step out of that circle.]
NNV: IN A NUTSHELL.............. DIRECT EVIDENCE LEADS TO AN INDICTMENT
[PADA: They are already indicted. I do not think that there is any
indication that the evidence favors the GBC.]
NNV das: I wish that were true! Are they in jail awaiting trial?
[PADA: No because Isopanisad says that in Kali yuga these bogus gurus will
escape the laws of the government. Adri himself admits they can get away with
a hanging.]
NNV: Are the complete facts assembled to establish for all time the
horrible crime committed? For me, indictment means without an objective
reasonable doubt! We can write for posterity that Srila Prabhupada was
poisoned, and many will believe it. Unfortunately, the poisoners can also
write a book, and many will believe them as well.
[PADA: Very, very few people accept CHAKRA's authority at this time, and
one of the people who runs the site said in confidence on com that they
think the GBC deserves a good lawsuit since they have failed so badly. Even
their own people are caving in, and Jayadvaita says that his friends are
accepting the poison conclusion. Their ability to convince others is
diminishing susbtantially. Notice in 1997, we had to face 35-40 GBC and
gurus, while this year there was ...zero! They are going down. All we are
saying is: get a plunger since a few pieces are still stuck.]
NNV: WE WANT ONE BOOK THAT SIMPLY STATES WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. That is what I mean by INDICTMEMT!
[PADA: OK, and that will happen. The book will also say that many people
accepted the pada style arguments, and rejected the CHAKRA style arguments,
and that is the element we are concerned with.]
NNV: INDIRECT EVIDENCE LEADS TO AN INVESTIGATION.
[PADA: So investigate it and you will see there are statements, whispers,
eye-witnesses, arsenic, what else do you need?]
NNV das: Is there sufficient evidence to make an arrest?
[PADA: According to our friends in Alachua, if this case was a USA case,
these folks would have been charged by now. Yes, the FBI confirmed there is
enough evidence. To make a case in India means we have to rely on folks
like Adri. So, forget it, we will not have an official case there maybe ever.
So what?]
NNV: To read the Miranda rights? If you say there is, then WHAT ARE WE
WAITING FOR!!! The Indian Police should immediately arrest the
perpetrators in India, and extradite the ones living abroad.
[PADA: But Adri won't help us do that since he symathizes with them.]
NNV: Adri FULLY SUPPORTS AN INVESTIGATION.
what can you possibly find wrong with that?
[PADA: Then he should not speak in favor of CHAKRA? CHAKRA says there is no
substantial evidence and Adri agrees with them, and he cites them? They are
still laughing! The people who laughed at the poison complaint while ladies
in bikinis asked me for a poison paper are Adri's authorities?]
NNV das: I really sense a misunderstanding that cannot be hard to resolve.
Chakra is happy that we are fighting, with or without bikinis.
[PADA: We are not fighting, we are clarifying the issues.]
NNV: You are a dear and trusted friend and godbrother. Sinking perfectly
good bullets" into our friend and godbrother Adri is USELESS!
[PADA: He attacked not just "our" position on the poison, rather
he joined
up with the laughing hyenas, and I'm not ever going to be kind to that
hyena's party. As long as I live I will NEVER FORGET the people who laughed
when we pointed out that Srila Prabhupada is being poisoned, i.e. CHAKRA - ites!]
NNV das: Don't you see that THEIR LAUGHING is being recorded by Yamaraja? Dhususana and the Kurus were also laughing. Within a few years they were wiped out. LET THEM LAUGH AT SRILA PRABHUPADA'S FOUL MURDER. I HOPE THAT THEY LAUGH LOUD AND LONG. EACH CHUCKLE WILL SINK THEM INTO A DEEPER HOLE IN HELL. I WANT THAT!
[PADA: So you can just imagine my shock to see Adri citing these
individuals site as his authorities.]
NNV: In fact, it is less than useless. There is not indication whatsoever
that the IRM wants to bury the POISON ISSUE.
[PADA: No, they want to CHAKRA-ize it which is worse than ignoring it. When
they ignored it, we said nothing. Now they are defending CHAKRA, that means
that is their real sentiment, they side with the hyena sector. So go back
to ignoring it and we will be happy, but when you cite the hyena sector.....]
NNV das: Instead of attacking Adri on this point, why not ASK him if he
sides with Chakra? This is the real subject of debate, not personalities.
[PADA: Adri has already told people to go to CHARKA to understand these
issues. This is public record.]
NNV: It is, however a very USEFUL AND PRACTICAL FACT that the poison issue cannot and should not be presented as FACT at a time when there has not even been and investigaiton. i, THE PUTATIVE "FATHER" OF THE POISON ISSUE WHO HAS PRACTICALLY STARTED THIS WHOLE INQUIRY SINGLEHANDEDLY request ALL PARTIES to immediatley CALL FOR THE FORMAL INVESTIGAION that is long overdue.
[PADA: And we say the same thing, so why is Adri siding with CHAKRA, who
has concluded that there was no poisoning, or they water it down with bogus
testimony, and Adri cites their web addresses as his view? This is the site
that defends murderer's party as gurus! The people who assaulted me and a
WOMAN companion at Rathayatra in 1997!]
NNV das: In my opinion, it doesn't matter. We can bark as much as we want,
but it is Krishna who instructs the elephants to pass. So there are so many
points of view? THAT IS GOOD! What needs to be done is getting MORE BRAINS
ON BOARD for whatever pretext, and then let them USE THEM.
[PADA: Agreed. What Adri should do is consult with other devotees before he
makes a big public proclamation that everyone should run over and seek
shelter in CHARKA, the hyenas who laughed at Srila Prabhupada's poison
complaint. That is what he has to learn, to consult.]
NNV: I have no doubt as to the outcome. I KNOW from every means possible that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned and at least some of the identities of those who did it. THIS TRULY HORRIBLE COSMIC LEVEL CRIME WILL BE REVEALED AND THE WHOLE STORY TOLD ...but not without an investigation.
[PADA: Agreed, so do not tamper with the investigation by citing CHARKA's
views. That means you have concluded the investigation already in their
favor. Very foolish thing to do, and very offensive to side with the hyenas
who think this poison is a laughing joke. Why are we siding with them?]
NNV das: We are not siding with them!
[PADA: CHAKRA has one view, to defend Tamal.]
NNV: THIS MUST BE DONE. This is not some local scandal that we can solve "in house" WE MUST HAVE THE GLOBAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ENGAGED IN THIS MATTER. We are fools to argue over MATTERS OF FACT.
[PADA: Very fews poisonings of saints are ever solved in the courts, and
Adri is the best bet we have to get it into court and he refuses.]
[PADA: Well, we are interested in the public/ devotee opinion and when ADRI
tries to take us to the opinion of CHAKRA, he has gone back to the people
we are fighting against. Besides, as Adri points out, they can hang someone
in India and get away with it. We want the devotee's court, and we are getting
that.]
NNV das: Not everyone feels as strongly about the Poison Issue as we do, but THEY WILL!
[PADA: Since we know they will, so why let up now?]
NNV: In my opinion, Adri has done a great service by CLEARLY ESTABLISHING
DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN DIRECT AND INDIRECT EVIDENCE.
[PADA: Yep, and he thinks that CHAKRA's hyena party are a source of evidence?]
NNV DAS: If nothing else, the hyenas show us the obstacles to be overcome.
When we all get these distinctions through our THICK SKULLS, we will be
able to work in co-operation together to SOLVE THE MYSTERY and to create
the APPROPRIATE GOSPELS to reflect the Truth of Srila Prabhupada's murder
for all those who join the movement for the next ten thousand years.
[PADA: I heard the tape and felt that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned without
the whispers, without the arsenic, with nothing other than his tone of
voice. He is being poisoned. I know it, and that is why I went out in 1997,
just with that. Adri is trying to place doubts and support the GBC's view,
the people who SPIT IN MY (and Prabhupada's) FACE! The people who LAUGHED
at Srila Prabhupada's being MURDERED!!!!]
NNV das: LET THEM LAUGH! When the truth comes out, THEY WILL HAVE NOT STANDING AT ALL BASED ON THEIR LAUGHTER! They will be beyond "reform." Please discuss this with me. This is no time for "Prabhupadanuga-itis" to set in. THIS IS NOT ABOUT US!!!!!! We ourselves are not important. OUR PLACE IN HISTORY WILL BE THAT OF THE NEGLIGENT BODYGUARDS WHO ALLOWED OUR MASTER TO BE MURDERED WHILE WE SLEPT. Enough said.
Now our job is our personal PENNANCE AND RECTIFICATION the crime. We cannot Uun-poison Srila Prabvhupada, but we CAN ROOT OUT THE COMPLETE TRUTH and make sure that it is extablished as SMIRTI so that no one will be fooled ever again on this point. HE LIVES TO PREACH, so now we must live to preach as well.
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYONE IN THE "PRABHUPADANUGA CAMP" IS WANTING TO BE RECOGNIZED FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE.....All I can say for, I truly hope that I will not be recognized for my failure to protect my Master......the only thing that I can see that I have done (or rather failed to do).
[PADA: I want the truth to come out, and CHAKRA is the source of lies, and
murderers, and people who LAUGH at Srila Prabhupada's statements, they also
laugh at devotee's suffering, women's suffering and cow's suffering, and in
sum, they are not MY AUTHORITES!]
There is no true quarrel between you and Adri. JUST BRUISED EGOS......
AND WE HAVE NO TIME FOR THAT!
Your eternal servant,
Nara Narayan Vishwakarma das
[PADA: The people who laughed at Srila Prabhupada's poison complaint are
not bothering my ego, they are DISRESPECTFUL and I would say HATEFUL
towards Srila Prabhupada. Who would LAUGH that his father says he is being
poisoned?]
NNV das: ONLY A TRULY EVIL PERSON!....AGAIN I SAY,,,,,,LET THEM LAUGH! The Christians say that a man can be "convicted in his sins". That is what happens when they laugh. These "laughers" NEVER WERE OUR BROTHERS. THEY CAME TO DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID. NOW LET THEM LAUGH!....It is said that "HE WHO LAUGHS LAST LAUGHS BEST"....I am very willing to wait to laugh last!
[PADA: So let us discuss this, that is what they should have done, send me
and YND a draft. YS pd]
NNV das: I'm with you! We must learn to be strong with and for each other
in our service to Krishna. From this fighting with Adri will come a strong
peace as well as real love.
NNV das
===========================
SITES TO CHECK OUT:
* http://members.xoom.com/manvantar/index.htm (Sulochana's Homepage)
* http://www.vedabase.com/ (Vedabase)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/das/articles.htm (DAS)
* http://tsa.ppp.ripco.net/padaweb/puranjan.html (Puranjana's Site)
* POISON TAPE audio and pada newsletters:
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933
* POISON TRANSCRIPT
* http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm
*
http://www.winink.com/tkg/ (Tamal Krishna)
NEW:
* http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc (The GBC)
* gbc_108@hotmail.com (e-mail)
* http://pages.infinit.net/pragosh/home.html (FRENCH)
* http://www.unlimited-resources.com/anubhavananda.html
* http://www.irg.zetnet.co.uk/ (IRG)
* http://members.aol.com/gauridas (Gauridasa Pandita
Dasa)
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5708/ (SPANISH)
* http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/cyber_gurukula.htm)
(Cyber
gurukula)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/ (Rocana's site)
* http://www.islandnet.com/krsna/vada/poison/poison.htm (Poison issue)
* Vipramukhya and Jayadvaita's "illicit sex
guru" rationalizations
* http://www.artnet.net/~yasoda/index.htm [appointment tape
fraud]
* http://www.vlbg.at/privat/gaura-nitai/index.htm Gaura-Nitais Homepage
Deutsch
* http://www.vnn.org/ (VNN news)